SPARQ Linebackers in the draft

[QuincyCarterEra]

Hitch was a solid NFL starter...what is your bar, Kuechly?

Agreed, thats why saying Kiser day 1 would instantly be an upgrade over Hitch. A ridiculous statement.

 

[Sydla]

What lb will be available in round 3 that will be on the level you expect?

My point is of you want an impact LB that’s going to be much better than Hitchens it will probably have to come at 1 or 2.

Jewell is likely nothing more than a decent 2 down LB.

 

[stilltheguru88]

My point is of you want an impact LB that’s going to be much better than Hitchens it will probably have to come at 1 or 2.

Jewell is likely nothing more than a decent 2 down LB.

How would you compare Jewell to pozluzny?

 

[cnuball21]

Hitch was an average starter better suited as a spot starter/flex LB.

I would hope to try to do much better than that.

Would you not consider average and solid similar? I'd consider average as being middle of the pack.

So i think it's fair to say Hitch was a solid MLB in the league. Probably one of the best 15 or so MLBs in football and he got paid accordingly.

Jewels is a better athlete, with better instincts and better college production. Hitch was taken in the 4th, I'm not sure why you think Jewell would be a "huge reach" in the 2nd.

 

[John813]

Boy, Evans must of run some poor 40s while training for the combine to not run it at all. Even at a Pro-day
Film is good, but those numbers, and lack thereof, is interesting.

 

[Sydla]

Would you not consider average and solid similar? I'd consider average as being middle of the pack.

So i think it's fair to say Hitch was a solid MLB in the league. Probably one of the best 15 or so MLBs in football and he got paid accordingly.

Jewels is a better athlete, with better instincts and better college production. Hitch was taken in the 4th, I'm not sure why you think Jewell would be a "huge reach" in the 2nd.

I want an impact MLB for this defense.

And based on some scouting guides, yes Jewell at 2 would be a reach.

I’d be happy with him if we got him in the 4th. I just am not as high on him as others.

 

[cnuball21]

I want an impact MLB for this defense.

And based on some scouting guides, yes Jewell at 2 would be a reach.

I’d be happy with him if we got him in the 4th. I just am not as high on him as others.

I think the problem might be with your expectations then...most teams in most drafts are not getting an "impact" LB at 50 or later, those guys are taken in the top 15 or so. Outside of Edmunds and maybe Smith, I don't feel great about anyone in the class turning into an "impact" LB.

You give me a quality starter in the 2nd with the potential of turning into a great player? I'll take it.

We got that with BJ at the end of the 1st and he's outperformed just about everyone else in his class that was selected fairly close to him in the 1st.

 

[conner01]

I’ll break stuff if we take Jewell in the 3rd round.

What about jewel you don’t like
I haven’t watched him much other than highlights which don’t show much so just curiou

 

[Sydla]

What about jewel you don’t like
I haven’t watched him much other than highlights which don’t show much so just curiou

I think when you watch him he looks slow. I think at times, despite having what people say are good combine numbers, he looks exposed against NFL caliber type players he faced. He can look stiff at times and there have been some knocks that he struggles to get off blocks by quality interior OL (which he will see more of in the NFL).

He's a two down LB IMO and I can't justify a 2nd round pick on a LB that you may have to pull off the field in nickel situations (which we use quite a bit of). Now if we added him in the 4th? I'd feel better about that.

It's not that I hate him as a player, it's that I don't like him as a player when you start saying we should draft him at 50.

 

[cnuball21]

I think when you watch him he looks slow. I think at times, despite having what people say are good combine numbers, he looks exposed against NFL caliber type players he faced. He can look stiff at times and there have been some knocks that he struggles to get off blocks by quality interior OL (which he will see more of in the NFL).

He's a two down LB IMO and I can't justify a 2nd round pick on a LB that you may have to pull off the field in nickel situations (which we use quite a bit of). Now if we added him in the 4th? I'd feel better about that.

It's not that I hate him as a player, it's that I don't like him as a player when you start saying we should draft him at 50.

The dude had 11 passes defended and 2 picks which is great for a LB, I don't see him as a 2 down backer at all. His great instincts and short area quickness allow him to impact the passing game as well.

If we're going off of your "eyeball test" than I'm not going to try and argue but just disagree.

 

[Sydla]

The dude had 11 passes defended and 2 picks which is great for a LB, I don't see him as a 2 down backer at all. His great instincts and short area quickness allow him to impact the passing game as well.

If we're going off of your "eyeball test" than I'm not going to try and argue but just disagree.

It's not just an eyeball test. I've read a ton of scouting reports on him. He's not considered very strong in space, there are coverage concerns with him at the NFL level, etc. People like to poo poo the Barkley/PSU game saying "hey, Barkley did that to everyone" but the reality is in the NFL Jewell is going to see many more Barkley-types than he will see TB types you see playing at Miami (OH). That game exposed his flaws against NFL caliber pass catchers.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I think when you watch him he looks slow. I think at times, despite having what people say are good combine numbers, he looks exposed against NFL caliber type players he faced. He can look stiff at times and there have been some knocks that he struggles to get off blocks by quality interior OL (which he will see more of in the NFL).

He's a two down LB IMO and I can't justify a 2nd round pick on a LB that you may have to pull off the field in nickel situations (which we use quite a bit of). Now if we added him in the 4th? I'd feel better about that.

It's not that I hate him as a player, it's that I don't like him as a player when you start saying we should draft him at 50.

Jewell has poor combine numbers.

He's about the same below average athlete that Hitchens was. That is great for a 4th round pick ie out of the top 100. Terrible for a top 50.

 

[Sydla]

Jewell has poor combine numbers.

He's about the same below average athlete that Hitchens was. That is great for a 4th round pick ie out of the top 100. Terrible for a top 50.

And you can see that lack of athleticism at times when you watch him play.

I have no issue with him if he's one of our 4th round picks. I won't be happy if we use the 50th pick on him.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The dude had 11 passes defended and 2 picks which is great for a LB, I don't see him as a 2 down backer at all. His great instincts and short area quickness allow him to impact the passing game as well.

If we're going off of your "eyeball test" than I'm not going to try and argue but just disagree.

This is the modern NFL. You have to be able to run in space. Teams with good TE and RB -and the NFCE has a few- scheme to isolate them on LB that cannot run.

You can help make up for lack of footspeed by anticipation of routes but expecting a slwoer than average rookie to do it is foolish.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

And you can see that lack of athleticism at times when you watch him play.

I have no issue with him if he's one of our 4th round picks. I won't be happy if we use the 50th pick on him.

He's a pet cat that people have picked in their own mock drafts. I wouldn't worry about it. The club drafts well.

 

[cnuball21]

It's not just an eyeball test. I've read a ton of scouting reports on him. He's not considered very strong in space, there are coverage concerns with him at the NFL level, etc. People like to poo poo the Barkley/PSU game saying "hey, Barkley did that to everyone" but the reality is in the NFL Jewell is going to see many more Barkley-types than he will see TB types you see playing at Miami (OH). That game exposed his flaws against NFL caliber pass catchers.

Agreed, he played poorly that game but the good tape far outweighs the bad on him. And I'm sure we could both cherry pick scouting reports in our favor.

Just don't see him lasting til the 4th, or our 3rd round pick.

If you don't like him at 50, that's fine, but if the team does I believe that's where they'll have to pick him.

And again, it's rare to find "impact" players in the 2nd round. At that point, you're looking for guys that can start and hopefully turn into impact players.

 

[DiResta]

People like to poo poo the Barkley/PSU game saying "hey, Barkley did that to everyone" but the reality is in the NFL Jewell is going to see many more Barkley-types

he might be seeing him on a regular basis when the Giants draft Barkley

 

[cnuball21]

This is the modern NFL. You have to be able to run in space. Teams with good TE and RB -and the NFCE has a few- scheme to isolate them on LB that cannot run.

You can help make up for lack of footspeed by anticipation of routes but expecting a slwoer than average rookie to do it is foolish.

If we're regularly trying to match up our LBs on TEs/RBs than I'm more concerned with our coaching and scheme.

With how much nickel/dim we play, that's what our extra DB's are for.

If you don't like the player fine, but I felt like Hitch was pretty well liked around here and he was more than adequate. This dude is a slightly better athlete with better instincts.

 

[DiResta]

Agreed, he played poorly that game but the good tape far outweighs the bad on him. And I'm sure we could both cherry pick scouting reports in our favor.

Just don't see him lasting til the 4th, or our 3rd round pick.

If you don't like him at 50, that's fine, but if the team does I believe that's where they'll have to pick him.

And again, it's rare to find "impact" players in the 2nd round. At that point, you're looking for guys that can start and hopefully turn into impact players.

most of these lb are going to be overdrafted if not all
in fact if you are sitting there at #19 with no takes on a trade back
the realization that these guys are reaches might have Dallas pick completely different (safe) than people expect
like no lb or wr or guard
they may see a guy like Hurst who slid a bit as a bpa even though hes a 3t
you never know
they may wait to fill the lb situation with scraps
theyve done it for years

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

If we're regularly trying to match up our LBs on TEs/RBs than I'm more concerned with our coaching and scheme.

With how much nickel/dim we play, that's what our extra DB's are for.

If you don't like the player fine, but I felt like Hitch was pretty well liked around here and he was more than adequate. This dude is a slightly better athlete with better instincts.

Having to scheme to hide an inferior player is never a good thing.

At the end of the day you have to defend the field and the inferior athlete has to line up somewhere and have a coverage responsibility. If you can never have them play said inferior athlete in anything other than a short zone then that can be taken advantage of too. It stretches the rest of the coverage thin.

Really though there are some route combinations to take advantage of slow MIKEs like running clearouts for other players zones and running a wheel post or seam right at them. This notion that you can just scheme away all your players from being isolated is ignorant.

Oh and Jewell would not be playing in the nickel so playing nickel is a moot point. Teams still run on first and second downs particularly with unathletic defenders to exploit in coverage. You are basically conceding that Jewell would be a liability against the pass.