Spears Played Well!

[Crown Royal]

I agree with the bold part, but not the second part.

People would still be criticizing him due to unrealistic expectations. It's four games into the season, but if my math reads correctly, he's on track to his best season as a pro.

I was critical of him last year, well before he opened his mouth. I rated him as our second poorest defender last year, behind only Bradie James. I was just as, if not more critical of James. I have been his whole career. I am more than happy to give props to James, who has shown me more in the first four games than I saw in his first four years.

But I am not going to give that to Spears just yet. You said that he is on pace for his best year. Right now he is on pace for 28 tackles and 2 sacks. That's pedestrian.

I read through this thread and keep seeing that the duty of a DE in the 3-4 is not to get sacks, but to get double teams. You get double teams by being disruptive. You grade being disruptive by a player pressuring on passing downs. The idea that a 3-4 end isn't meant to pressure is ludicrous. I'm not asking for sacks, but he just plain doesn't get near the QB. And if he is getting double teamed, then frankly I worry that we screwed up on Spencer - because I'm pretty sure I see a RT or TE on him everytime he rushes.

The fact is that at this point, Spears is solid against the run and sub par against the pass. He doesn't break his read off the run quickly enough and doesn't get upfield. Ferguson didn't have a lot of sacks, but he pushed the pocket back, which is what you want from the DL in this scheme. Spears hasn't consistently done that.

Someone asked if a first round draft pick is worth a solid run stuffer. I say no, considering Kenyon Coleman was just as effective against the run and was had for much cheaper. When spears consistently plays like he did Sunday, I will give him the accolades some feel he deserves, as I have James. Until then, good job, but keep it up.

 

[Crown Royal]

Sure, I of course meant not to the extent he is now. There were idiots criticizing Ware after he didn't have a sack in the first two games.

You stated on the first page that the people criticizing Spears are the same who were criticizing Ware after the first two games. That is an unfounded statement, as I was complimentary of Ware at the same time I was critical of Spears.

 

[theogt]

You stated on the first page that the people criticizing Spears are the same who were criticizing Ware after the first two games. That is an unfounded statement, as I was complimentary of Ware at the same time I was critical of Spears.

Do you really think that I meant literally every person that is critical of Spears was also critical of Ware?

By the way, Spears gets double teamed a lot. It's Spears' double teams that have been the reason we've been able to get pressure up the middle off ILB blitzes and stunts, etc.

 

[Crown Royal]

As an addendum to his 'best year as a pro' statement. He has half as many tackles this year as he did through 4 games last year. He also has half as many sacks, with half a sack.

 

[Crown Royal]

Do you really think that I meant literally every person that is critical of Spears was also critical of Ware?

If you make general statements I am going to take them in a general sense. Those critical of Spears have far outnumbered those critical of Ware.

 

[AbeBeta]

On a side note: it's interesting he gets slammed when he shows the outward emotion and fire that people want to see on the field.

umm, maybe that is because we want to see that fire where it belongs.

 

[conner01]

spears has played fairly well this year.i don't care about the past, if he continues to do what he has done so far this year i will be pleased with him. he is never gonna rack up double difit sacks and most de's in a 3/4 are'nt either. but he's playing solid against the run, and is still a starting quality de. thats not a bust to me. too me a bust is a guy who can't play. spears can play although he is'nt playing as good as you would expect for where he was taken but most dlinemen taken high don't play up to there draft spot

 

[WoodysGirl]

I was critical of him last year, well before he opened his mouth. I rated him as our second poorest defender last year, behind only Bradie James. I was just as, if not more critical of James. I have been his whole career. I am more than happy to give props to James, who has shown me more in the first four games than I saw in his first four years.

Honestly, I didn't watch Spears all that closely last year.

But I am not going to give that to Spears just yet. You said that he is on pace for his best year. Right now he is on pace for 28 tackles and 2 sacks. That's pedestrian.

Well I did qualify that by "if my math is correct" I'm a writer, not a mathmetician. But I do see improvement by him and not just from the game against STL. I thought he played well the week before, too.

The fact is that at this point, Spears is solid against the run and sub par against the pass. He doesn't break his read off the run quickly enough and doesn't get upfield. Ferguson didn't have a lot of sacks, but he pushed the pocket back, which is what you want from the DL in this scheme. Spears hasn't consistently done that.

Pass rushing is not a strength, but he's not stinking up the joint either. He gets double-teamed just as much as Fergie did, but considering the fastest way to get to the QB is straight ahead, I imagine Fergie had a shorter path than Spears.

Someone asked if a first round draft pick is worth a solid run stuffer. I say no, considering Kenyon Coleman was just as effective against the run and was had for much cheaper. When spears consistently plays like he did Sunday, I will give him the accolades some feel he deserves, as I have James. Until then, good job, but keep it up.

I don't know that Spears needs a standing ovation. Your good job, keep it up, is pretty much all that needs to be said. That said, I do think some of the criticism for his play THIS year is somewhat unwarranted. Last year it was pretty obvious, he wasn't getting any push. But this year, I'm watching him a lot closer and he's getting double-teamed, he's staying active. No he doesn't always get a great push, but he's not stinking up the joint either.

As for Coleman, he was had in Dallas for cheap. Went to NYJ and got a $20 million deal. $6 mil guaranteed. Right now, he's making more than Spears.

umm, maybe that is because we want to see that fire where it belongs.

Like if he just makes the tackle? But what if Bradie, Rat, or one of the other guys makes the play, is he not allowed to celebrate? Does he have to make the play in order to celebrate? If you think that, then that's just silly.

 

[Deep_Freeze]

That's a fair question, but I think for the transition to the 3-4, he was the best candidate what the 'boys needed in the Parcell's 3-4. Pass rusher in Ware and big bodies on the line with Spears and Canty. It made a lot of sense at the time. Hindsight is definitely 20/20 to see who the 'boys could've taken instead of either of those guys.

I guess, for me, is I've been paying more attention to Spears during the game and I believe he's alot more active than I've ever seen him. It just doesn't always translate to a tangible stat.

Yeah, hindsight is always 20/20, and really everyone on this board was excited to get Spears at the time. Was supposed to be the perfect 3-4 DE coming from that system in LSU, blah blah blah.

I guess some think of him as a worse version of our other solid but ordinary DE (when we ran the 4-3) Ellis. Difference is, Ellis waited to whine til he was a veteran, so he had a solid body of work for people to take up for him with. Spears has really been whining for a real long time already, and he is still a young guy, you have to wonder how bad it will get as he gets older and if he is still not putting up the numbers he or we want.

Spears did a LOT of talking. So far he has NOT come up with the stats to back up all that talk. THAT is why he is getting a lot of flack. He did play BETTER this last sunday; but that is only because he was pretty much INVISIBLE before. He is very solid against the run- no arguement at all. BUT he needs to get more pressure. IF he could duplicate sunday for most of his games THEN that would be backing up the talk. BUT he was up against possible the WEAKEST O line he will face this season. So color me UNCONVINCED.

Spears still raises people's temperature a bit. I do see part of this though, if you have been invisible before, alot easier to look like your actually doing something.

On a side note: it's interesting he gets slammed when he shows the outward emotion and fire that people want to see on the field.

Good point, you know I guess fire shown from a guy like Ware is taken different than a guy like Spears cause of Spears' lack of visual performance in the past. I will have to give this one some thought though, cause you do have a good point.

Someone asked if a first round draft pick is worth a solid run stuffer. I say no, considering Kenyon Coleman was just as effective against the run and was had for much cheaper. When spears consistently plays like he did Sunday, I will give him the accolades some feel he deserves, as I have James. Until then, good job, but keep it up.

Yeah, that was me, and I do agree with you. In the 3-4, I would much rather have average lower picks on the line, unless the guy is truly special, which we should know by now that Spears isn't. But we still have to go with what we got, and hopefully Spears can turn it around.

 

[Deep_Freeze]

Like if he just makes the tackle? But what if Bradie, Rat, or one of the other guys makes the play, is he not allowed to celebrate? Does he have to make the play in order to celebrate? If you think that, then that's just silly.

Yeah, you changed my mind on this, I probably am too hard on him when he celebrates. I'm just thinking, "finally", lol.

Spears' celebrations are waaaay better than that Ware fainting thing...that really sucks...

 

[TheCount]

Sure, I of course meant not to the extent he is now. There were idiots criticizing Ware after he didn't have a sack in the first two games.

The difference here is that the people that critized Ware really are idiots because Ware has proved, ever since he put on the uniform, what he's capable of.

Spears hasn't shown much, since the day he was drafted. So stop acting like it's completely insane that he would get some heat for his play.

 

[theogt]

The difference here is that the people that critized Ware really are idiots because Ware has proved, ever since he put on the uniform, what he's capable of.

Spears hasn't shown much, since the day he was drafted. So stop acting like it's completely insane that he would get some heat for his play.

No, the problem is that anyone watching his play the past 4 games should recognize that he's playing well, but many don't because all they look at to see if he's playing well is his sack column.

 

[TheCount]

No, the problem is that anyone watching his play the past 4 games should recognize that he's playing well, but many don't because all they look at to see if he's playing well is his sack column.

I give up, you're hopeless. It's one thing to have a conversation with someone who is at least willing to accept the points of others, you're just one of those guys that believes his opinion is the only valid one and that's that.

Spears' celebrations are waaaay better than that Ware fainting thing...that really sucks...

Are you kidding? The faint was awesome, especially since he got caught by a team mate.

 

[Crown Royal]

Honestly, I didn't watch Spears all that closely last year.

Well I did qualify that by "if my math is correct" I'm a writer, not a mathmetician. But I do see improvement by him and not just from the game against STL. I thought he played well the week before, too.


Pass rushing is not a strength, but he's not stinking up the joint either. He gets double-teamed just as much as Fergie did, but considering the fastest way to get to the QB is straight ahead, I imagine Fergie had a shorter path than Spears.

I don't know that Spears needs a standing ovation. Your good job, keep it up, is pretty much all that needs to be said. That said, I do think some of the criticism for his play THIS year is somewhat unwarranted. Last year it was pretty obvious, he wasn't getting any push. But this year, I'm watching him a lot closer and he's getting double-teamed, he's staying active. No he doesn't always get a great push, but he's not stinking up the joint either.

As for Coleman, he was had in Dallas for cheap. Went to NYJ and got a $20 million deal. $6 mil guaranteed. Right now, he's making more than Spears.

Like if he just makes the tackle? But what if Bradie, Rat, or one of the other guys makes the play, is he not allowed to celebrate? Does he have to make the play in order to celebrate? If you think that, then that's just silly.

I should state that I don't think Spears makes too many mistakes, he doesn't get completely overpowered, and he doesn't fall on his rear. He just stalemates, which is what aggravates me. He got good push against the line in NY and Saint Louis, so he gets a pass on those. If he continues to improve, great! It can only help.

 

[theogt]

I give up, you're hopeless. It's one thing to have a conversation with someone who is at least willing to accept the points of others, you're just one of those guys that believes his opinion is the only valid one and that's that.

Convince me. Say something useful other than, "he sucks dude."

Don't expect to change my mind simply by pointing out your opinion.

 

[theebs]

well this thread proves marcus spears is the new hot button guy.

used to be quincy/chutch, julius jones and roy williams.

 

[WoodysGirl]

I should state that I don't think Spears makes too many mistakes, he doesn't get completely overpowered, and he doesn't fall on his rear. He just stalemates, which is what aggravates me. He got good push against the line in NY and Saint Louis, so he gets a pass on those. If he continues to improve, great! It can only help.

I can see how that can be aggravating, but let me ask you this. And I don't know if I'm asking it right, but if he's in a "stalemate" with a guy, and the play is going in his direction, but the RB has to redirect because of Spears, and another player comes in and cleans up, then do you still look at Spears negatively?

Not trying to change your mind, just trying to understand. Like what play comes to mind from this year when you talk about him getting stalemated?

 

[superpunk]

Convince me. Say something useful other than, "he sucks dude."

Don't expect to change my mind simply by pointing out your opinion.

You've really done nothing but point out your opinion, as well. While I agree with you that by watching him you can see improvement, that doesn't exactly hold up as supporting evidence. There's nothing concrete there, and either side on this issue would be hard-pressed to produce anything definitive in a comparative way.

You think Spears has been playing better. TheCount thinks he ought to play even better. Both are simply opinions, neither has any real factual support, other than the ole eye-test.

 

[theogt]

You've really done nothing but point out your opinion, as well. While I agree with you that by watching him you can see improvement, that doesn't exactly hold up as supporting evidence. There's nothing concrete there, and either side on this issue would be hard-pressed to produce anything definitive in a comparative way.

You think Spears has been playing better. TheCount thinks he ought to play even better. Both are simply opinions, neither has any real factual support, other than the ole eye-test.

Well, duh, but I'm not the one complaining that I haven't changed his mind. I have no desire to do that. If I wanted to I could put together a video of all the plays that Spears has gotten pressure and beaten single and double teams. But I don't have the time or the desire to do so.

 

[TheCount]

Convince me. Say something useful other than, "he sucks dude."

Don't expect to change my mind simply by pointing out your opinion.

Ha, "He sucks dude.", maybe that's all you read since you were too blinded by your own opinion to even consider anyone else's. The wrost criticism I've given him is to say he's average, I never claimed he sucked. Average for a 20th overall pick, in my mind, is pretty poor play.

If you think the goal of my posts was to convince you, then you see yourself of being of far greater importance than I do.

How about this, you continue to think what you want (as usual), and I'll consider to hope he gets better than where he's at now.