Stacking the box. what does it mean?

[thunderpimp91]

So I keep reading such different opinions on how defenses are playing the Cowboys. Some believe that teams are loading the box, other say teams are leaning more towards coverage. Baffles me how we can all watch the same game and come away with two completely different ideas. I just went back and rewatched the Washington game, and charted each Dallas offensive play with how many players Washington had in the box (on the line and off the ball). Very few 8 man boxes, but tons of 7s. Also interesting to me that when Washington did go light in the box they still crowded the line using 5 and kept just one player off...anyways...

In doing so it kind of clicked to me that the old school definition of stacking the box was pretty simple...teams played a 4-3 or 3-4 and would bring a safety down to act as an additional LB and create 8 players around the ball. With teams increasingly using 3 & 4 receiver sets does this definition still hold up? In a 3 receiver set in a one safety look you have 1 deep safety, 3 corners covering, and 7 players in the box at most. 4 receiver sets with a 1 safety look you would have 1 deep safety, 4 corners out wide, and 6 players in the box.

I would have to argue that against 11 personnel a 7 man defensive box should be considered "stacked". Reason being you only have 5 OL + 1 TE in to block, so you'll have one person running free, 2 if the TE doesnt stay in to block. I think you need the old hat on a hat rule.

What are your thoughts? In a consistently changing game it seems that we need to revisit even the basic concepts every now and then.

 

[Aviano90]

Only Zeke sees stacked boxes. It’s why he isn’t as generational as his diehard fans claim.

 

[Jake]

Teams are not "stacking the box" against Dallas. If they were that would help the passing game.

The problem is they're slowing the running game without doing that, and sitting on short routes.

 

[Ranching]

Only Zeke sees stacked boxes. It’s why he isn’t as generational as his diehard fans claim.

So you don't like Dak or Zeke, who do you like?

 

[CT Dal Fan]

Teams are not "stacking the box" against Dallas. If they were that would help the passing game.

The problem is they're slowing the running game without doing that, and sitting on short routes.

This is the crux of the problem in my opinion. The running game isn't working; so teams are basically daring the Cowboys to throw. While Dak's struggles have been well documented, I wonder why the receivers aren't getting the same level of separation and/or not winning on their routes anymore. Kellen Moore loves those screens but aside from Lamb's huge play against the Saints, how many have worked?

The Cowboys need to go back to taking some deep shots. Challenge teams deep so they no longer sit on short routes. Make them fear getting beat over the top again. Opponents watch film and they're seeing the same things we are. The Cowboys had only two deep shots at Washington. Both were to Gallup. One was a big gain erased by penalty and the other drew a pass interference on Washington.

 

[thunderpimp91]

Teams are not "stacking the box" against Dallas. If they were that would help the passing game.

The problem is they're slowing the running game without doing that, and sitting on short routes.

not necessarily saying they are or are not. Just curious on peoples thoughts of what it actually means in todays game. I mean if the offense is running 10 personnel, but the defense has 6 guys in the box its less congested than what we think of traditional stacking the box, however we still have a free defender to get through as well. IDK I just found it to be more interesting than it probably should be, no agenda either way.

 

[gimmesix]

What I've noticed (at least at times) are defenses pinching inside. In other words, they are playing their front seven tighter toward the center because they are playing the percentages that say we're much more likely to run inside than outside. That's one reason that we've hit on some outside runs/plays. They are depending on their outside guys (corners and safeties) to make the plays if we go outside or at least hold up the plays long enough for the front seven to get there.

So as you said, there are different ways to stack the box. If you can fill those inside running lanes when a team is bent on running inside, then that creates congestion that's hard to get through. A looser defense is easier to run against on the inside.

I don't know how often defenses are playing tight between the tackles, but I've noticed it multiple times.

 

[gimmesix]

This is the crux of the problem in my opinion. The running game isn't working; so teams are basically daring the Cowboys to throw. While Dak's struggles have been well documented, I wonder why the receivers aren't getting the same level of separation and/or not winning on their routes anymore. Kellen Moore loves those screens but aside from Lamb's huge play against the Saints, how many have worked?

The Cowboys need to go back to taking some deep shots. Challenge teams deep so they no longer sit on short routes. Make them fear getting beat over the top again. Opponents watch film and they're seeing the same things we are. The Cowboys had only two deep shots at Washington. Both were to Gallup. One was a big gain erased by penalty and the other drew a pass interference on Washington.

Several times the Washington defense had players under the deeper/midrange routes, essentially daring Dak to throw over the top of them or around them. Considering he threw two interceptions in those kinds of situations, it seems like a good bet right now. Dak is very conscious of not making mistakes, so he's hesitant to throw when defenses are bracketing the receivers, which is why he's holding the ball. I can't say it's a bad thing to not force it, but sometimes you've got to fit the ball into tight windows.

 

[CT Dal Fan]

Several times the Washington defense had players under the deeper routes, essentially daring Dak to throw over the top of them or around them. Considering he threw two interceptions in those kinds of situations, it seems like a good bet right now. Dak is very conscious of not making mistakes, so he's hesitant to throw when defenses are bracketing the receivers, which is why he's holding the ball. I can't say it's a bad thing to not force it, but sometimes you've got to fit the ball into tight windows.

Exactly. And Dak was making those tight window throws earlier this season. I don't know what's going on in his head right now but I believe he can fix it.

 

[Techsass]

not necessarily saying they are or are not. Just curious on peoples thoughts of what it actually means in todays game. I mean if the offense is running 10 personnel, but the defense has 6 guys in the box its less congested than what we think of traditional stacking the box, however we still have a free defender to get through as well. IDK I just found it to be more interesting than it probably should be, no agenda either way.

That's what I thought was the whole point of reconsidering what a stacked box means today. Unfortunately I'm really not the guy you want backing you up.

 

[superonyx]

Only Zeke sees stacked boxes. It’s why he isn’t as generational as his diehard fans claim.

And 1 post in the trolls show up.
How about showing how smart you are and answering the question or keep it moving. The OP wants to have an adult conversation and you show up trying to troll other cowboys fans. Mods should delete crap like this.

 

[superonyx]

So you don't like Dak or Zeke, who do you like?

Like too many around here running this place into the ground. He likes trolling cowboys fans to make up for the lack of attention he has always received from woman.

 

[thunderpimp91]

Several times the Washington defense had players under the deeper/midrange routes, essentially daring Dak to throw over the top of them or around them. Considering he threw two interceptions in those kinds of situations, it seems like a good bet right now. Dak is very conscious of not making mistakes, so he's hesitant to throw when defenses are bracketing the receivers, which is why he's holding the ball. I can't say it's a bad thing to not force it, but sometimes you've got to fit the ball into tight windows.

Good analysis...Watching the game back i noticed similar. I rewatched the the broadcast, not the all 22, so coverages can be tricky to chart, but you definitely notice a lot of tight coverage underneath playing those short routes. Also notice crowing the LOS against the run, but its heavily on ball players with no or 1 off ball player. Tons of opportunity to break a long run if the backs can get to the 2nd level, they just arent doing that right now.

Makes sense with what appears to be a lack of adjustments by the offense. You can see the opportunities there, the execution just hasnt happened consistently. You can see routes opening up for the intermediate and deeper throws at times. Dak has connected on a few, but not as many as we would like. You can see the opportunities for chunk plays in the run game, they just dont happen with any consistency. Feels like teams have decided they are fine getting beat deep or giving up a long run. They are just going to avoid the Cowboys getting the 5-6 yard 1st down runs to control the series and avoid the short passing game that sets up the long 10-12 play scoring drives. Not a bad strategy considering how banged up the Cowboys are right now.

 

[Aviano90]

And 1 post in the trolls show up.
How about showing how smart you are and answering the question or keep it moving. The OP wants to have an adult conversation and you show up trying to troll other cowboys fans. Mods should delete crap like this.

Oh look, little fragile has hurt feelings.

 

[Aviano90]

So you don't like Dak or Zeke, who do you like?

I knew this comment would upset Pollard haters.

 

[Aviano90]

Like too many around here running this place into the ground. He likes trolling cowboys fans to make up for the lack of attention he has always received from woman.

You made 2 posts in this thread, none of which were on topic, both discussing me. Glad I was able to get your goat. You seem like a female body part. Is that your service dog because you are mentally weak?

 

[Ranching]

I knew this comment would upset Pollard haters.

Pollard is great, just not a full time back..the do need to keep from running between the tackles too much and run him outside more.

 

[Whirlwin]

Teams are not "stacking the box" against Dallas. If they were that would help the passing game.

The problem is they're slowing the running game without doing that, and sitting on short routes.

Yes they’re sitting on the short routes. Because Prescott is on the bottom With four other teams not having time to throw the ball down field. If anybody can’t see the online is the issue I don’t know

 

[JohnsKey19]

What I've noticed (at least at times) are defenses pinching inside. In other words, they are playing their front seven tighter toward the center because they are playing the percentages that say we're much more likely to run inside than outside. That's one reason that we've hit on some outside runs/plays. They are depending on their outside guys (corners and safeties) to make the plays if we go outside or at least hold up the plays long enough for the front seven to get there.

So as you said, there are different ways to stack the box. If you can fill those inside running lanes when a team is bent on running inside, then that creates congestion that's hard to get through. A looser defense is easier to run against on the inside.

I don't know how often defenses are playing tight between the tackles, but I've noticed it multiple times.

Agreed. Defenses are pinching inside because Zeke cant threaten the perimeter. Even moreso now that he's injured. Secondly, the TEs cant hold their blocks on the perimeter which weakens the outside running game. And don't even ask about these WRs blocking.

The fact that we could not exploit Washington having 4th/5th string DEs playing the entire game is pitiful.

 

[doomsday9084]

What I am seeing is consistently 7 man fronts and general coverage focused set ups. The D lineman are pinching in to cover the interior gaps, functionally clogging up the middle. Off tackle runs are there all day long except:
- Dallas' TE blocking is terrible
- Zeke is too slow
- Not sure there are really any good plays for it out of the shotgun formations that Dak prefers.

Potential answers:
- 4WR sets to pull out another LB and give up on TE
- Pollard, pollard, pollard

Edit add: Didn't see gimmesix. I agree with him. The DE's aren't doing any contain action and are frequently trying to take the OT-OG gaps.