Starting NFL QB ages

[TheMarathonContinues]

as long as you dak bots are putting out the drivel that the MVP vote meant something I will keep swatting it down

Huh? I said why don't you put them on ignore if they bother you? You're swatting down facts. You can't change facts. You're literally talking to a wall.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

So we trumpet the voting results but discredit the voting system?

That's not true. No one cared about any of it as regards the folks who didn't win in previous years.

I'm not discrediting it. The system is the system. It's not a new system. Do I think the system should just reward quarterbacks for MVP? No. It's a flawed system. But is the system.

No one knows that typically the first place guy gets all the votes...people still don't understand why Lamar got all the votes and why Josh got 1.

 

[McKDaddy]

I'm not discrediting it. The system is the system. It's not a new system. Do I think the system should just reward quarterbacks for MVP? No. It's a flawed system. But is the system.

No one knows that typically the first place guy gets all the votes...people still don't understand why Lamar got all the votes and why Josh got 1.

Ok, let's be clear. You have been saying that Dak finished second and that should be recognized & celebrated, right?

But the system that allows non first place votes is the only reason he finished second, right?

So, either the system is flawed (which I would agree) and the results likewise. OR the system is fine & thus the results are fine. I don't see a logical way to support the results & question the process.

As for the process, I agree it should be MVP not MVQB. I also don't see a reason for any votes other than winner. Out of 50 voters you would think most years there would be a majority and that would be your winner. In that scenario, then YES I would recognize the person with the next highest total of votes as having finished second and so on.

Under the current system, accumulating votes, but without any votes for first, is not indicative of who the voters thought second most worthy IMO.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Ok, let's be clear. You have been saying that Dak finished second and that should be recognized & celebrated, right?

But the system that allows non first place votes is the only reason he finished second, right?

So, either the system is flawed (which I would agree) and the results likewise. OR the system is fine & thus the results are fine. I don't see a logical way to support the results & question the process.

As for the process, I agree it should be MVP not MVQB. I also don't see a reason for any votes other than winner. Out of 50 voters you would think most years there would be a majority and that would be your winner. In that scenario, then YES I would recognize the person with the next highest total of votes as having finished second and so on.

Under the current system, accumulating votes, but without any votes for first, is not indicative of who the voters thought second most worthy IMO.

I’m not denying the system is flawed. But we can’t just change the system because it rewarded Dak as MVP runner up. If it was anyone else no one would care lol. I’ve never seen anyone in years past complain about who got runner up.


But to answer your question it is flawed. Even Josh Allen getting a first place vote is a joke lol.

And I personally don’t bring up he was runner up but I have no issue with those that do because it’s a true statement whether we like it or not.

 

[McKDaddy]

But to answer your question it is flawed. Even Josh Allen getting a first place vote is a joke lol.

How is my question flawed?

Why is it a joke? They won their last 5 reg season games. Going 11-6 & won wildcard game. Gave KC all they could handle in the divisional round. He accounted for the most total offense in the league.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

How is my question flawed?

Why is it a joke? They won their last 5 reg season games. Going 11-6 & won wildcard game. Gave KC all they could handle in the divisional round. He accounted for the most total offense in the league.

No I’m saying the MVP system is flawed not your question.

And yes it’s a joke.

The MvP vote is not about what you do in the playoffs it’s a regular season award so winning a wild card game and going to the end with KC is irrelevant.

And to prove how much of a joke it was he didn’t even get runner up they gave it to Dak lol.

Bills struggled for most of the year while Josh led the league in turnovers.

Not only that but Bills winning down the stretch coincided with Josh Allen playing his worst football of the season. The weather changed so it makes sense but it was not MVP play.

 

[Blitzen]

I'm speaking based on your list and on your list you listed no 50 year olds. Do I think Aaron Rodgers can't win a ring this year because he's 40? I don't.

What stats are you using to determine guys hit the end of their lifecycle at 33?

You can't pick and chose what history to use to determine the future.

What I mean is.....

Find someone in previous history that fits Dak's resume....

Who in previous history made their first all Pro at 30 and got worse? You just simply can't compare quarterbacks of today to guys 20 years ago or 30 years ago.

I never said Dak will not have a good season statistically this year. You are too focused on Dak within the framework of my point. My point is a generalization that QB’s that were good serviceable full-time QB’s typically do not continue to be so after they turn 33-34. They get injured, or their performance starts to drop. The guys that do continue (to succeed) past that age make up some of the most durable, but more importantly most talented and greatest QB’s of all time.

My argument is based on all time history. If you need to see some examples, I can give you a few. Troy Aikman fully retired after his age 34 season (and it was a dismal season). Tony Romo got injured after his age 34 season, and never came back as the full-time starter. Matt Ryan still got out there after 34, but you can tell his performance started to slip and he was on his way out of the league. Kirk Cousins took a season ending injury in his age 35 season, and Minnesota declined to bring him back and he signed on with Atlanta who also used their first round pick on a rookie to develop. Derek Carr does not have many years left in the tank and is 33. Alex Smith took a nasty injury in age 34 season and was lucky to survive let alone play again. GM’s see a Brady, Manning, Rodgers, Elway have great success in their mid to late 30’s and their owners tell them to get the job done within 2 years and they panic and latch on to an older guy that does not need much development. Kirk may have a good year this season, but who believes that he will be consistently good year in/year out now and available?

It’s like some people believe that because there have been QB’s that have had lots of success in their mid to late 30’s, that it’s the rule rather than the tiny exception to the rule. There are slews of other examples.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

I never said Dak will not have a good season statistically this year. You are too focused on Dak within the framework of my point. My point is a generalization that QB’s that were good serviceable full-time QB’s typically do not continue to be so after they turn 33-34. They get injured, or their performance starts to drop. The guys that do continue (to succeed) past that age make up some of the most durable, but more importantly most talented and greatest QB’s of all time.

My argument is based on all time history. If you need to see some examples, I can give you a few. Troy Aikman fully retired after his age 34 season (and it was a dismal season). Tony Romo got injured after his age 34 season, and never came back as the full-time starter. Matt Ryan still got out there after 34, but you can tell his performance started to slip and he was on his way out of the league. Kirk Cousins took a season ending injury in his age 35 season, and Minnesota declined to bring him back and he signed on with Atlanta who also used their first round pick on a rookie to develop. Derek Carr does not have many years left in the tank and is 33. Alex Smith took a nasty injury in age 34 season and was lucky to survive let alone play again. GM’s see a Brady, Manning, Rodgers, Elway have great success in their mid to late 30’s and their owners tell them to get the job done within 2 years and they panic and latch on to an older guy that does not need much development. Kirk may have a good year this season, but who believes that he will be consistently good year in/year out now and available?

It’s like some people believe that because there have been QB’s that have had lots of success in their mid to late 30’s, that it’s the rule rather than the tiny exception to the rule. There are slews of other examples.

I think you’re naming the exceptions to the rule. Alex Smith had a freak injury. Derek Carr….solid guy who’s played for some bad teams. Not really sure what he is or was this point.

Aikman was 25 years ago.

Dak is 30 and he’s about to be 31. There’s some
Things to be concerned with but she isn’t one of them. He’s in the prime of his career. If he was 36 I’d understand where you were coming from.

 

[gtb1943]

I think you’re naming the exceptions to the rule. Alex Smith had a freak injury. Derek Carr….solid guy who’s played for some bad teams. Not really sure what he is or was this point.

Aikman was 25 years ago.

Dak is 30 and he’s about to be 31. There’s some
Things to be concerned with but she isn’t one of them. He’s in the prime of his career. If he was 36 I’d understand where you were coming from.

which means its unlikely he will get any better; especially in the playoffs

 

[gtb1943]

Huh? I said why don't you put them on ignore if they bother you? You're swatting down facts. You can't change facts. You're literally talking to a wall.

And leave dak bots like you alone? my civic duty calls

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

which means its unlikely he will get any better; especially in the playoffs

He literally just made his first all pro last year lol. Signs point to him getting better or at the very least staying consistent.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

And leave dak bots like you alone? my civic duty calls

I mean like I said in the other thread you need Dak bots. Otherwise what purpose would you serve? It reminds me of when Batman asks the Joker why don’t he kill him and he replies “because you complete
Me!!”

 

[Blitzen]

I think you’re naming the exceptions to the rule. Alex Smith had a freak injury. Derek Carr….solid guy who’s played for some bad teams. Not really sure what he is or was this point.

Aikman was 25 years ago.

Dak is 30 and he’s about to be 31. There’s some
Things to be concerned with but she isn’t one of them. He’s in the prime of his career. If he was 36 I’d understand where you were coming from.

No, I’m not listing all the exceptions. You are just avoiding a reasonable set of facts. Drew Brees, Big Ben, Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, John Elway are hall of fame exceptions to the rule. And even they showed their age eventually-father time is still undefeated even against the great Brady. Dak likely has another 2-3 years of good to very good years of production left (at most). My argument has been that the relatively few years of prime he has left-should make food for thought on any talk about extension.

The number one age for winning the SB as a QB? 26 years old. Number two? 27. More than half the SB winners were less than 30. The enormous bulk of those winning after 30-and especially mid 30’s and after were having huge postseason success in their earlier career. Eli Manning’s production plummeted in his mid 30’s. Ryan Tannehill is not even a backup last I checked. Jimmy G is now a backup. There are so many examples that I don’t have time to list them all. It’s like some of you want to argue with life insurance tables. The underwriter bases his table based on life expectancy for ALL causes-who cares if it’s a freak injury or a regular injury, lol. It does not matter to Father Time.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

No, I’m not listing all the exceptions. You are just avoiding a reasonable set of facts. Drew Brees, Big Ben, Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, John Elway are hall of fame exceptions to the rule. And even they showed their age eventually-father time is still undefeated even against the great Brady. Dak likely has another 2-3 years of good to very good years of production left (at most). My argument has been that the relatively few years of prime he has left-should make food for thought on any talk about extension.

The number one age for winning the SB as a QB? 26 years old. Number two? 27. More than half the SB winners were less than 30. The enormous bulk of those winning after 30-and especially mid 30’s and after were having huge postseason success in their earlier career. Eli Manning’s production plummeted in his mid 30’s. Ryan Tannehill is not even a backup last I checked. Jimmy G is now a backup. There are so many examples that I don’t have time to list them all. It’s like some of you want to argue with life insurance tables. The underwriter bases his table based on life expectancy for ALL causes-who cares if it’s a freak injury or a regular injury, lol. It does not matter to Father Time.

The fact we are talking about Father Time for a 31 year old. Like I said earlier though I can’t determine my future based on history when it’s a different game now. Even though Stafford, Elway and Peyton got rings after 30…..I can’t do it. All situations are different. You’re playing physic and fact is we don’t know how many years Dak has.

 

[Blitzen]

The fact we are talking about Father Time for a 31 year old. Like I said earlier though I can’t determine my future based on history when it’s a different game now. Even though Stafford, Elway and Peyton got rings after 30…..I can’t do it. All situations are different. You’re playing physic and fact is we don’t know how many years Dak has.

You just keep avoiding it. This is about the entire league history for QBs. Not just Dak. Yes predictions can be made based on overwhelming statistics.

I’m not saying Dak cannot have successful seasons now. Nor, am I stating he cannot start successfully in this league after age 34. I’m stating that there are legions of examples of QB’s ending their careers or production plummeting by the time they are 34-and a tiny fraction of QB’s having high end success after that. Every single QB you mentioned were and always were traditional drop back pocket passers. The game has changed, but the aging of humans has not. Dak is just another good regular season QB that is on the very last of his back nine. Predicting that he will follow in the footsteps of one of those all time greats is just emotional fan boy stuff that avoids reality.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

You just keep avoiding it. This is about the entire league history for QBs. Not just Dak. Yes predictions can be made based on overwhelming statistics.

I’m not saying Dak cannot have successful seasons now. Nor, am I stating he cannot start successfully in this league after age 34. I’m stating that there are legions of examples of QB’s ending their careers or production plummeting by the time they are 34-and a tiny fraction of QB’s having high end success after that. Every single QB you mentioned were and always were traditional drop back pocket passers. The game has changed, but the aging of humans has not. Dak is just another good regular season QB that is on the very last of his back nine. Predicting that he will follow in the footsteps of one of those all time greats is just emotional fan boy stuff that avoids reality.

But modern medicine has changed. Training has changed. It’s completely different than it was even 5 years ago. But fine let’s assume Father Time is coming. Dak’s issues are not related to Father Time. His play in the playoffs isn’t because he’s 30.

 

[Blitzen]

But modern medicine has changed. Training has changed. It’s completely different than it was even 5 years ago. But fine let’s assume Father Time is coming. Dak’s issues are not related to Father Time. His play in the playoffs isn’t because he’s 30.

I know his age is not keeping him from success at this point. My point was discussing future years and how it compares with all the other teams regarding the QB position. Modern medicine has not produced superhumans just yet, but it definitely helps quality of life.

This game is not regular daily life, and the consequences of violent collisions with these athletes has not changed much (quicker recovery times sometimes, better outcomes for normal daily living). Better braces and auxiliary equipment.