State Of The Dallas Cowboys: The Head Coach

[5Stars]

Might want to work on that reading comp bro, never said that about Jerry. I was simply restating an argument from another poster in a more tactful way that Jerry wants to win "his way", never gave my personal opinion on the matter.

The only reason I laughed at your post was because Jerry wants to do everything "his way". And, that is not going to change. lol

 

[jobberone]

I think the point the poster was trying to make, restated in a more tactful way, is that Jerry wants to win "his way". In other words, having to walk on egg shells around Valley Ranch with a strong personality head coach like Parcells was no fun for Jerry. Jerry wants to be front and center and be seen as the guy making all the decisions and that is why head coaches that are willing to take a back seat are more to Jerry's liking.

So Jerry wants to win, but he wants to win his way and Garrett allows Jerry to do this. So the logic is that Jerry will not get rid of a head coach that allows him to have as much freedom and decision making as Garrett gives him as compared to somebody like Cowher, who would want full control and Jerry less involved.

That is why some are saying that overall wins and losses don't really meant that much as far as Garrett is concerned, it is the atmosphere that Jerry likes with Garrett here and barring a major collapse, Garrett will continue to be the head coach regardless of if he deserves to be or not. Like another poster asked back on page 2, name a head coach in modern times that has missed the playoffs 4 consecutive seasons and kept his job. As far as I can tell, nobody has yet to name a single coach but yet many are saying Garrett will be the first. If that happens, it will just reinforce the idea that Garrett is head coach due to his relationship with Jerry and not that he actually deserves to be head coach.

One doesn't always desire to be tactful although perhaps that is always best. Just as well one doesn't always know what others really mean although I appreciate the input.

I don't know for certain what Jerry thinks and I don't always believe what he says. But his actions have been clear about Garrett. I don't think Jerry needs a yes man as his coach nor have I ever bought into the idea that Jerry dictates everything either. I think Jerry has say in the GM duties although that seems to be less so these days with McClay on board. I don't think it is a given that Jason is the sole reason talent acquisition is better, IMO, but it appears more than a coincidence its on the rise since Garrett became HC.

I know Jerry want's more wins and a SB win again, as does any Dallas fan, but I think his temperance with Garrett is borne from a desire to stop the coaching carousel and due to the abundance of injuries the past two years particularly the last which was primarily on one side of the ball.

I don't even take it seriously when others spew some nonsense about Jerry caring about money more than winning or having a coach he can dictate to. I do agree Jerry wants to be in the middle of things and the 'walking on eggshells' comment is telling about his being excluded from the 'glamour' position. I don't think he's another coach but Jerry loves him some Jerry. He's going to give an opinion if asked and be up front when the cameras are on.

I don't really follow other franchises that much and I couldn't name all the coaches in the league for my life. I don't see a big deal in the win in three or four years thing which was invented by some posters and perpetuated as myth. I would never base a change in coaches based just on wins although at some point you have got to see more than progress which is relative anyway.

 

[Tawney88]

This is baseless and inflammatory. It's worthy of deletion but I'll leave as an example of a post with absolutely zero contribution to the site.

There are very few who truly believe winning is not important to Jerry. It's his raison d'etre and because of it he has made some very short sided and harmful blunders trying to win now when a more reasonable approach is to steadily and efficiently build the club. It's the reasons for the Galloway and Williams trades.

Does Jerry want to make money? You betcha and every businessman who is successful does it well.

Does Jerry want a spineless jellyfish so he can be owner, GM and coach? Not a chance although Jerry meddles far too much. His biggest problem is his mouth driven by his ego. If someone asks a question he NEVER says you should ask the coach. Parcells banned him from the press AMAP. It killed Jerry. He wants to be a man for all seasons and he should stick with being an owner which he does very well at. He's finally learned how to be a GM but its way overdue and he's good (not great) at it because he's delegating most of it to others. Another is the de facto GM.

It's his opinion. Why is his opinion worth deleting? Because you don't agree with it and you have the power to delete posts doesn't make it right. Jerry cares little about winning unless he is winning his way large and in charge. He proved that by providing this team with coaches he controls and meddles with for the better part of two decades. He didn't like Jimmy getting the headlines or walking on egg shells around Bill. He lives for walking down on the sidelines telling his coaches what decisions to make, hiring their coaches, on undercutting them in the media. If he cared about winning as much as you believe he'd step down. He has said he wouldn't still have a job if he was GM anywhere else. What more proof is needed. He cares only about his ego and making money.

 

[KJJ]

Playoffs or he's gone. I don't want to hear about anything else.

With the NFL likely adding 2 more playoff teams in 2015 opening the door for 7-9 and 8-8 teams to make the playoffs that may give Jerry incentive to hang onto Garrett. Jerry will be searching for any reason to keep Garrett around another year and the playoffs being expanded would give him some ammo.

 

[5Stars]

One doesn't always desire to be tactful although perhaps that is always best. Just as well one doesn't always know what others really mean although I appreciate the input.

I don't know what certain what Jerry thinks and I don't always believe what he says. But his actions have been clear about Garrett. I don't think Jerry needs a yes man as his coach nor have I ever bought into the idea that Jerry dictates everything either. I think Jerry has say in the GM duties although that seems to be less so these days with McClay on board. I don't think it is a given that Jason is the sole reason talent acquisition is better, IMO, but it appears more than a coincidence its on the rise since Garrett became HC.

I know Jerry want's more wins and a SB win again, as does any Dallas fan, but I think his temperance with Garrett is borne from a desire to stop the coaching carousel and due to the abundance of injuries the past two years particularly the last which was primarily on one side of the ball.

I don't even take it seriously when others spew some nonsense about Jerry caring about money more than winning or having a coach he can dictate to. I do agree Jerry wants to be in the middle of things and the 'walking on eggshells' comment is telling about his being excluded from the 'glamour' position. I don't think he's another coach but Jerry loves him some Jerry. He's going to give an opinion if asked and be up front when the cameras are on.

I don't really follow other franchises that much and I couldn't name all the coaches in the league for my life. I don't see a big deal in the win in three or four years thing which was invented by some posters and perpetuated as myth. I would never base a change in coaches based just on wins although at some point you have got to see more than progress which is relative anyway.

Continuity....I think is what Jerry is doing. Firing every HC that he does not like every few years, nothing gets fixed.

It takes time to clean up a mess, and the Dallas Cowboy are trying to crawl out of that. The team is getting younger...

 

[Tawney88]

I really believe it would be near impossible for any coach to be successful here with the way out front office works.

 

[TwoDeep3]

One of the aspects of Jerry's nature is he has to be vindicated for the insult he perceives coming in the years Jimmy was here building a championship team. The whole point of the argument which ensued was predicated on the lack of respect Jerry felt after the team won the Super Bowl. That and his not getting any respect over having participated in the structuring of the final product in the press at the public at large.

I am a member of a guild which has a meeting once a month. This meeting is a continuing lecture event with a different speaker every time. I had the opportunity to sit with one of the lecturers at a before meeting lunch. We had a conversation and it came out she was an event planner for a group of alumni of Harvard. As it turned out she also did a similar job with an organization around Dallas which hosted speakers for the wealthy businessmen. Gorbachev, Kissinger, Chaney were amongt the names she dropped that spoke at these organizational meetings.

She told me Stephen was a member. She said he is a delightful individual and a good-natured trouble maker. He and one of the Hunt boys were at a Las Vegas meeting she organized and she had to watch them closely because they were constantly egging each other on to - what she called it - get into trouble. No details other than she liked both of them very much and it sounded like they were acting like school boys.

She was hired to put together an event for Jerry Jones at his house. They set up the tables and needed a place to arrange the placards for the guests. They chose a table in the foyer. She had placed her purse there as she was giving instructions to the crew setting up. Jerry came in and blew his top over a purse on the table in the foyer. After she claimed it was hers and informed him this was the logical place for the placards or name tags, he advised her to contact the interior designer to find out which pieces could be moved and which had to stay for esthetic reasons.

She said Jerry was a real arsehat and nothing like his public image. Not really a surprise since most extremely successful people are demanding.

So, if he is such a stickler for this level of control, how would he suffer the indignity of Jimmy receiving all the credit?

Well, he wouldn't.

So after Jimmy left it became paramount Dallas win so Jerry could claim he was responsible for all the SB wins.

They did in 95, but then the press claimed it was still Jimmy's team even without Jimmy, which I personally agree with.

(As a side note, I argued this point from the Jerry side on this very site, backing Jerry and defending his position for several years. Only after that team broke up and the tedium of no seasons where Dallas is playing in the NFC Championship game, and mostly stinking on ice, have I come to the conclusion the press and all those who routinely stomped my butt in this debate were correct. There is something here that suggests you can teach an old dog new tricks, but it takes a decade of head butting to do so.)

Jerry is desperately trying to put together a team that will win it all so he can reclaim his coveted place in history when Jimmy ran the team. His posture then will be he was instrumental in two separate eras when Dallas won, the second proving his value in the first.

The likelihood of this coming to fruition is when pigs fly out of my butt. Jerry is why this team doesn't get over the hump.

 

[TwoDeep3]

Continuity....I think is what Jerry is doing. Firing every HC that he does not like every few years, nothing gets fixed.

It takes time to clean up a mess, and the Dallas Cowboy are trying to crawl out of that. The team is getting younger...

Younger is not synonymous with better.

 

[5Stars]

Younger is not synonymous with better.

True, but young smart football players make a difference.

 

[TwoDeep3]

True, but young smart football players make a difference.

Agreed.

However, I still see nothing as a positive forward step with the defense on this team. I can't see trading Ware and Hatcher out and Lee again hurt, which can be explained away with what the team has brought on board this season.

I understand Ware was hurt, but he is still young eno0ugh to recover and be a force.

I suspect if he throws down 14 sacks this year, this board will be a mine field.

There isn't much that defends this off season defensively. That may change. But what is the likelihood all the moving parts excel?

Slim and none. And Slim just too a job in Poughkeepsie.

 

[waving monkey]

It's his opinion. Why is his opinion worth deleting? Because you don't agree with it and you have the power to delete posts doesn't make it right. Jerry cares little about winning unless he is winning his way large and in charge. He proved that by providing this team with coaches he controls and meddles with for the better part of two decades. He didn't like Jimmy getting the headlines or walking on egg shells around Bill. He lives for walking down on the sidelines telling his coaches what decisions to make, hiring their coaches, on undercutting them in the media. If he cared about winning as much as you believe he'd step down. He has said he wouldn't still have a job if he was GM anywhere else. What more proof is needed. He cares only about his ego and making money.

total BS

 

[waving monkey]

Tawney88 said: ↑
It's his opinion. Why is his opinion worth deleting? Because you don't agree with it and you have the power to delete posts doesn't make it right. Jerry cares little about winning unless he is winning his way large and in charge. He proved that by providing this team with coaches he controls and meddles with for the better part of two decades. He didn't like Jimmy getting the headlines or walking on egg shells around Bill. He lives for walking down on the sidelines telling his coaches what decisions to make, hiring their coaches, on undercutting them in the media. If he cared about winning as much as you believe he'd step down. He has said he wouldn't still have a job if he was GM anywhere else. What more proof is needed. He cares only about his ego and making money. Jerry cares little about winning Jerry is ridden to win now if you said Jerry's disions on how to win are bad then there would
be a reasonable debate.
He didn't like Jimmy getting the headlines Skip Bayless wrote an article a year before Johnson run himself outa town that Jimmy wanted
the job in Miami,
You can't judge accuratly if your just hating.

 

[Tawney88]

total BS

Almost two decades of evidence says I'm closer to being correct then fans hoping and wishing he has changed.

 

[waving monkey]

Almost two decades of evidence says I'm closer to being correct then fans hoping and wishing he has changed.

misrepresenting the truth is not closer to the facts
any body who believes Jerry's ego isn't driven to win is a pretty poor judge of human nature.
Again argue about his poor decision making and we my have a reasonable debate
but these specious accusations undermines your frustrations

 

[Tawney88]

misrepresenting the truth is not closer to the facts
any body who believes Jerry's ego isn't driven to win is a pretty poor judge of human nature.
Again argue about his poor decision making and we my have a reasonable debate
but these specious accusations undermines your frustrations

If he cared at all about winning he would remove himself from the position of general manager, until he does that everything he says is lip service. Almost two decades of evidence as proof, his own words as proof, his actions as proof, I don't need anymore to tell me what he is about. I know and I know the main issue with this franchise sits in the owners box, and things won't get markedly better until he no longer runs the football operations of the team.

I will reiterate what is said at the start of this post again, because I believe it is the most important statement. If he truly cared about winning as much as you believe he does, he would remove himself for his position as general manager.

 

[waving monkey]

again you show such a lack of understanding of human nature.
Jerry's ego is what we're talking about,your talking about some higher good
Jerry's failings we can all see Jerry can not see
as you can not see a clear picture because of your frustration.

Wher I argue with posters is when they make false accusations
I don't argue about his blind spots for which we all see.

Jerry's ego is big and he has made some bad decisions through that ego.
But that ego drives him to win.Disregarding that is a lack of understanding
of human nature.Jerry possess plenty of want to and drive.

 

[Beast_from_East]

One doesn't always desire to be tactful although perhaps that is always best. Just as well one doesn't always know what others really mean although I appreciate the input.

I don't know what certain what Jerry thinks and I don't always believe what he says. But his actions have been clear about Garrett. I don't think Jerry needs a yes man as his coach nor have I ever bought into the idea that Jerry dictates everything either. I think Jerry has say in the GM duties although that seems to be less so these days with McClay on board. I don't think it is a given that Jason is the sole reason talent acquisition is better, IMO, but it appears more than a coincidence its on the rise since Garrett became HC.

I know Jerry want's more wins and a SB win again, as does any Dallas fan, but I think his temperance with Garrett is borne from a desire to stop the coaching carousel and due to the abundance of injuries the past two years particularly the last which was primarily on one side of the ball.

I don't even take it seriously when others spew some nonsense about Jerry caring about money more than winning or having a coach he can dictate to. I do agree Jerry wants to be in the middle of things and the 'walking on eggshells' comment is telling about his being excluded from the 'glamour' position. I don't think he's another coach but Jerry loves him some Jerry. He's going to give an opinion if asked and be up front when the cameras are on.

I don't really follow other franchises that much and I couldn't name all the coaches in the league for my life. I don't see a big deal in the win in three or four years thing which was invented by some posters and perpetuated as myth. I would never base a change in coaches based just on wins although at some point you have got to see more than progress which is relative anyway.

Good post, I agree that Jerry wants to win but I don't think he wants to do it "hiding in the shadows" while somebody like Cowher gets all the credit. Jerry talking about walking on egg shells around Parcells and his famous bar rant where he admitted on tape the only reason he hired Parcells was to get the stadium approved validates this line of thinking in my opinion.

If Garrett is shown the door, and like you I am starting to highly doubt he will be, the next head coach is not going to be a big name that will command all the attention like Cowher, Holmgren, or even Sabin. I just don't see Jerry going down that path again like he did with Parcells.

 

[jobberone]

Good post, I agree that Jerry wants to win but I don't think he wants to do it "hiding in the shadows" while somebody like Cowher gets all the credit. Jerry talking about walking on egg shells around Parcells and his famous bar rant where he admitted on tape the only reason he hired Parcells was to get the stadium approved validates this line of thinking in my opinion.

If Garrett is shown the door, and like you I am starting to highly doubt he will be, the next head coach is not going to be a big name that will command all the attention like Cowher, Holmgren, or even Sabin. I just don't see Jerry going down that path again like he did with Parcells.

Nice reply. Despite anything else Jerry may have said, he was desperate to hire not just a big name for the stadium but for someone to lead him out of the wilderness. And I doubt Jerry would ever admit that in public.

 

[khiladi]

The topic was making progress or lack thereof under whomever was the Head Coach. And we are talking about *development* of the player, not what HC the player was drafted under.


Hatcher had a really good 2011 and 2012 seasons. But, because he was playing in a 3-4 where you don’t put up big numbers, some fans don’t know any better. He then had a terrific season in 2013. Under 2 different D-Coordinators in 2 different schemes, but under 1 head coach. Under Wade he was a meaningless backup.


Spencer wasn’t always injured under Wade. Far from it. He was also known to slack off during rehab sessions under Wade. He would get a minimal fine from Wade because Wade felt that he shouldn’t have to get on guys that were supposed to be adults. Garrett doesn’t play around in that fashion. If you ever watch the tape of Spencer in 2010, he was constantly freelancing and losing his gap control under Wade. Teams saw it and exposed him badly and Spencer didn’t seemingly care. Then Wade was fired and Spencer didn’t do that anymore. And this wasn’t ‘freelancing when you’re down 50 points’ these were in critical situations.

Spencer in 2009-2012 had 50, 52, 51 and 55 respectively. His sack totals 6, 5, 6 and 11. FF between 2009-2012 was 2, 2, 4, 2 ad 2009 he had 1 INT. The point is 2 of the 3 years under Garrett were exactly where they were.

The only season he really out-performed the others, was 2012 and those numbers were in sacks and assist on tackles. The difference between 2012 and those other seasons were CB play. There was no development with Spencer with Garrett. He had an MVP season with Ryan in his contract year and then Ryan was fired.

I do think that they absolutely screwed up Felix Jones. But, they screwed him up from the beginning under Wade. Sure, Garrett was the O-Coordinator, but the topic was about developing players as a Head Coach. Miles couldn’t stay healthy. I believe some of the injury issues fall on Garrett.

Knowing the unique situation of Wade and Garrett, it is absolutely ridiculous to argue about players developing under a HC, when Wade had no control over the offense.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Knowing the unique situation of Wade and Garrett, it is absolutely ridiculous to argue about players developing under a HC, when Wade had no control over the offense.

Wade had full-control over how practices were run.

I could have my dates mixed up, but I believe in January 2013 I was playing golf with a very famous former Cowboy that was a teammate of Garrett's. He had been to many Cowboys practices under Wade and then under Garrett as HC.

The main point he made about Wade was that Wade was far more interested in having guys watch film instead of practice on the field. He would allot a certain amount of time for field practice and if the team looked bad, they would try to run things again, but once that time was up...they were going into the film room and study.

He told me that Garrett was more into practicing on the field and execution. Having the players drilled and drilled on technique by the coaching staff. And he would keep them on the field until the execution and techniques were being done the right way and they can worry about game film later.

He told me that Garrett's approach makes players better from his experience because all the game film in the world won't help if you can't execute yourself.

So Wade may not have had any control over the offense, but the way he ran practice dictates a player's progression regardless of what side of the ball they are on.

I'm not a Garrett fan anymore. I think he has too many weaknesses. However, I will give him his due...he does a pretty good job at developing talent.

To me, he has to make the playoffs this year or he should be canned. I don't think this team is loaded with talent, but there is certainly enough talent here for this team to make the playoffs with a good coach if they stay healthy. And if they can't stay healthy, this is the 4th year in a row where the team couldn't stay healthy and it's apparent that he does not understand how to coach a team and prevent the players from having nagging injuries (1 year is nothing, 2 years is a bad luck, 3 years is a trend, 4 years is a fact).

The positive I believe is that we have enough talent and well-developed talent that a new coach would have a good opportunity to succeed.







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