State of this OL and going forward

[RodeoJake]

Not sure if it is the OL underperforming, or if it is the scheme or just still too predictable play calling, coaching. Probably a bit of all of it. Mostly out dated schemes and predictable play calling.

This exactly. The defense knows it's a run and where it's going. They flow to that area and even the greatest linemen ever couldn't block everyone.

 

[John813]

Smith is still a good LT.

He may not be that ungodly freak from 2014 but he's easily a top 10 LT in this league. Penalties on review show some are iffy imo.
Williams has played better. He isn't on the same level as peak Smith-Fred-Martin etc, but we saw with Collins it can take years before a O-line peaks. Calling him a bust now is emotional.
Fredericks play has dropped, but the communication in the pass blocking is worlds better. They are much better in blitz pickup. Total sacks have dropped too.
Martin is playing with a bad back. Nothing he can do about it now except miss games.
Collins is just serviceable? Ok, this is not a serious thread.

 

[MyFairLady]

My biggest issues with the O line would be the desperate need to extend everyone before contracts expire and the way Frederick was just handed his job back even though he was clearly not ready.

 

[Stash]

Exact this.

There not the clear cut #1 in the league unit like they where in 2014/2016 but let's be real, there at very worst a fringe top 5 unit.

The offensive line being a fringe top 5 unit like you said is not a concern and there's 25 bigger issues with the team than o-line

But no worse return on investment on the team.

 

[morat1959]

With the enormous amount of resources invested in this OL, Is it time to rebuild this OL?

I'm not an expert of OL play, but this year we haven't been able to run the ball, so we haven't been able to control the clock and games, which has forced us to pass more, and keep our defense out there more.

just my brief thoughts:

Tyron is past his prime, and is a penalty magnet
Connor Williams is a bust
Frederick is not himself, I saw us better with Looney last year than Frederick this year
Martin is still playing at a high level
Collins is out of position, but serviceable as an OT

what say you?

With the enormous amount of resources invested in this OL, Is it time to rebuild this OL?

I'm not an expert of OL play, but this year we haven't been able to run the ball, so we haven't been able to control the clock and games, which has forced us to pass more, and keep our defense out there more.

just my brief thoughts:

Tyron is past his prime, and is a penalty magnet
Connor Williams is a bust
Frederick is not himself, I saw us better with Looney last year than Frederick this year
Martin is still playing at a high level
Collins is out of position, but serviceable as an OT

what say you?

Fix the problem at QB and play calling and all of the sudden this group looks pretty good.

 

[quickccc]

With the enormous amount of resources invested in this OL, Is it time to rebuild this OL?

I'm not an expert of OL play, but this year we haven't been able to run the ball, so we haven't been able to control the clock and games, which has forced us to pass more, and keep our defense out there more.

just my brief thoughts:

Tyron is past his prime, and is a penalty magnet
Connor Williams is a bust
Frederick is not himself, I saw us better with Looney last year than Frederick this year
Martin is still playing at a high level
Collins is out of position, but serviceable as an OT

what say you?

Guess this OL analysis simply depends upon eye of the beholder.
- Tyrone may not be elite as he once was, but is he better than the most of the starting left tackles in the NFL ?
- Conner W may not developing into elite OG, but is he still serviceable to continue to allow the OL to operate as the top least -sacks allowed- unit in NFL?
(and i'm really dreading Silo Fulo vs A. Donald on sunday, Yikes !)
- Fred is not in previous form but he's still better than backup Looney, who was late reacting to stunts, twists and didn't get to MLBs near as well as Fred does.
- Martin is battling a back injury and not as dominant as in past years, imo. His missed block led to blocked FG vs Bills. But he's still solid enough and gutting it out
- Collins is not out of position as he has responded with a fine, much better year in 2019 than in 2018. Revised coaching seem brought out the best in him.
- Cam Fleming was underwhelming in his stints as backup help when called for. Expect team to allow him to move on as a FA, and invest in other options as backup OTs.
- Expect to lose Looney as FA, club like Andy Redmon (on IR) as a eventual replacement.

This OL unit is probably tops among highest paid and invested in several more years to come, so the starting lineup is gonna be the status quo.
- 2020 will ask if 3rd rd OG McGovern can challenge Williams for LG starting role. We'll see if he's more natural and stronger than the more NFL experienced Williams.
One of the two Connors is going to be made a top backup until their existing contract expires, imo.

- We'll have to see if the new HC retains current OL coach Marc Columbo, whom team management is high on. While there seems some flaws in the run game that will need to
be revamped to rejuvenate a more splash, quick hole hitting run game, Columbo's unit has produced results in becoming best pass protecting unit in NFL.
and he's brought out best in Lael Collins. That should speak high volumes with both Jones management and the new incoming HC.

I really believe Jerry is gonna insist on keeping OL coach Marc Columbo. Why risk possibly going through another Paul Alexander scenario and relapsing into that disaster again
when we already have a proven commodity ?

 

[quickccc]

Smith is still a good LT.

He may not be that ungodly freak from 2014 but he's easily a top 10 LT in this league. Penalties on review show some are iffy imo.
Williams has played better. He isn't on the same level as peak Smith-Fred-Martin etc, but we saw with Collins it can take years before a O-line peaks. Calling him a bust now is emotional.
Fredericks play has dropped, but the communication in the pass blocking is worlds better. They are much better in blitz pickup. Total sacks have dropped too.
Martin is playing with a bad back. Nothing he can do about it now except miss games.
Collins is just serviceable? Ok, this is not a serious thread.

+1
well said.

 

[Tussinman]

Fans don't know how to evaluate offensive line talent. This line is "struggling" yet sacks/pressures are down from last year, passing is #1 and rushing is #7 in the league....... (yeah that's really struggling).

The main issue is you only hear their names when they mess up.

2016 you only hear Martins name once or twice all season. 2019 rolls around and you hear his name 4 or 5 times and fans go "uhhh he's struggling and not elite anymore"

It's like no dumb %#$ that's still elite to only hear your name 4 or 5 times in over 900 snaps

You know fan evaluations are bad when Martin is currently ranked the #3 overall guard in the NFL (highest rated Dallas cowboys player regardless of position) yet fans are saying he's no longer elite or that he's struggling badly (LMAO)

 

[foofighters]

Not sure if it is the OL underperforming, or if it is the scheme or just still too predictable play calling, coaching. Probably a bit of all of it. Mostly out dated schemes and predictable play calling.

This. Sure we can always use a lineman here or there but it's what you said.

 

[gimmesix]

With the enormous amount of resources invested in this OL, Is it time to rebuild this OL?

I'm not an expert of OL play, but this year we haven't been able to run the ball, so we haven't been able to control the clock and games, which has forced us to pass more, and keep our defense out there more.

just my brief thoughts:

Tyron is past his prime, and is a penalty magnet
Connor Williams is a bust
Frederick is not himself, I saw us better with Looney last year than Frederick this year
Martin is still playing at a high level
Collins is out of position, but serviceable as an OT

what say you?

Tyron struggles more than he used to because of his back problems, but still is one of the best LTs in the league. He's had some bad calls against him, too.

Williams isn't as bad as some seem to believe, and hopefully between him and McGovern, we can find a solid LG starter moving forward.

Not sure we were better with Looney. We gave up a whole lot more sacks and some of it was caused because we were missing Frederick's ability to make the line calls. However, Frederick has struggled blocking in his first year back.

Martin also has not been quite as good as what we're used to, but he's had some injury issues as well.

Collins is playing better than he ever had at RT and seems to have settled into that role after having a hard time adjusting at first to the move.

I think LG can be upgraded. I'm not sure when Smith is going to hit the wall because of his health concerns. And we need Frederick to make a full recovery. However, offensive line is one of the least of my worries right now, especially since we already have a guard to compete with Williams for that LG spot. Our run blocking has been spotty, so hopefully whatever scheme we move to will improve that.

 

[starfan1]

Fix the problem at QB and play calling and all of the sudden this group looks pretty good.

wondered how long it would take and who it would be. Not bad page 2.

 

[gimmesix]

Connor McGovern, Looking forward to seeing McGovern and Williams compete for the LG spot next yr.

Cameron Fleming, He has a club option for 2020 which i dont think Dallas picks up.

Adam Redmond, Think he will get tendered and take Looneys spot.

Brandon Knight, Dont think he makes it out of TC next yr.

If McGovern beats out Williams, Williams could move to swing tackle.

Considering the option for Fleming is $5 million, you are likely right.

I wouldn't be surprised if Looney returns, but we have kept Redmond around for some reason. Also, McGovern can play center, so if he ends up as a backup, it probably makes Looney expendable.

I like what I've seen from Knight and think he sticks as a backup.

 

[MyFairLady]

But no worse return on investment on the team.

Point well taken and I completely agree but I would definitely put Jaylon as worst ROI. Second round draft pick and mega contract for a complete liability for most of his career.

I fear that Zeke is heading in the direction of bad ROI. 4th overall draft pick and mega contract for 3 years of excellent play and god knows what moving forward.

 

[blueblood70]

Tyrons penalties have been mostly phantom calls
Connor williams is not as bad as people say
Tfred has struggled a lot by his year, but with another year in recovery i would guess he will be back in form

Martin is great, but has had some struggles
Collins is one of the best rt in the league.

agree

 

[AbeBeta]

Connor Williams is a bust
Collins is out of position, but serviceable as an OT

And with just these two statements, a terrible thread is born.

 

[Stash]

Point well taken and I completely agree but I would definitely put Jaylon as worst ROI. Second round draft pick and mega contract for a complete liability for most of his career.

I fear that Zeke is heading in the direction of bad ROI. 4th overall draft pick and mega contract for 3 years of excellent play and god knows what moving forward.

Yeah, but lone players vs an entire offensive line group.

 

[Teague31]

Marc Colombo is yet another coach on this team learning on the job. He was an average player and is an average coach.