Stephen Jones comments 2/28

[visionary]

Ah....
I miss all those threads that various "doctors" on CZ used to make daily doing google searches on 'nerve regeneration rates' trying to justify a horrible and wasted Rd 2 pick

 

[Alexander]

Brandon Graham was absolutely beating Free on every play when we played Philly.

Hey, it happens.

 

[Alexander]

Building through the draft is without question the right way but I question whether it's their philosophy or just a necessity because of their fine cap management over the years.

In 2012, they blew money on Carr, Orton, Bernadeau, Livings, Connor, Vickers and Pool. They may have indeed "learned" not to pay average players like they were good.

But a look at their cap management since makes that more of a convenient coincidence that aligns with a lack of the actual choice to change the philosophy.

The real point is if you believe fully in building through the draft, you find ways to accumulate draft picks, rather it be through trade or compensatory picks.

We have seven picks in this draft and gave away a fifth for a loser like Cassel just last year. That is not exactly building through the draft when you trade a pick away for an aged veteran.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

I'm glad to hear this. I don't think people understand that free agency from 10 years ago is nothing like it is today. Teams generally are making wiser contract decisions and building more thru the draft. That means that really good players that end up going in FA are more rare. It can happen, but the idea these days is to be smart with your contracts, build thru the draft and re-sign your own talent.

What's more likely to happen when it comes to a productive FA is that the player will be a diamond in the rough type that just didn't hit the lick with his former team and now his new team is a great fit for him. Or the player was a very good player and an injury hurt their production and it takes a couple of years for them to get closer to their old form.

Personally, I think if you're going to FA quite often, even if it is working, there's some real problems with your coaching staff and their ability to develop players.





YR

 

[Alexander]

Personally, I think if you're going to FA quite often, even if it is working, there's some real problems with your coaching staff and their ability to develop players.

Teams that go to free agency are often those that are shuffling coaching staffs. Many of these coaches don't have time to develop anybody, they have to flip the script within two years or less.

 

[slomoxn]

Oh god that's hilarious. Look at the back paws spread like a flying squirrel, -on the floor.

 

[slomoxn]

I'm glad to hear this. I don't think people understand that free agency from 10 years ago is nothing like it is today. Teams generally are making wiser contract decisions and building more thru the draft. That means that really good players that end up going in FA are more rare. It can happen, but the idea these days is to be smart with your contracts, build thru the draft and re-sign your own talent.

What's more likely to happen when it comes to a productive FA is that the player will be a diamond in the rough type that just didn't hit the lick with his former team and now his new team is a great fit for him. Or the player was a very good player and an injury hurt their production and it takes a couple of years for them to get closer to their old form.

Personally, I think if you're going to FA quite often, even if it is working, there's some real problems with your coaching staff and their ability to develop players.





YR

I agree and I'm happy they are finally taking the time to develop players but I'd hate to see 3-4 years wasted trying to develop a formidable defense and lose a chance for t super bowl run in the process. They did that to Romo and now his window here at least is pretty much closed.

 

[Idgit]

Guess my problem is it feels like the past, where there was no competition in camp for spots.

Free is marginal at best, and to decide before camp starts that he will have the job just given to him is just plain stupid.

Doesn't even know who we could get in the draft....let the coaches decide who will start, it bothers me that Stephen sounds like his daddy.

I don't think the Cowboys see Free as 'marginal at best.' And I'd guess this comment is more a byproduct of the team's cap plan than it is evidence they don't think Free can be beaten out. We saw with Leary that the team is not afraid to take a vet's spot from him if he gets outplayed. Or I guess we could just ask Tony about that. This is Free's last year in Dallas, and they expect going into camp they'll ride it out with him.

 

[waldoputty]

I don't think the Cowboys see Free as 'marginal at best.' And I'd guess this comment is more a byproduct of the team's cap plan than it is evidence they don't think Free can be beaten out. We saw with Leary that the team is not afraid to take a vet's spot from him if he gets outplayed. Or I guess we could just ask Tony about that. This is Free's last year in Dallas, and they expect going into camp they'll ride it out with him.

For the big fans of the Patriots way, what would Belicheat do if Free was on his team and wasting cap space?

 

[Idgit]

For the big fans of the Patriots way, what would Belicheat do if Free was on his team and wasting cap space?

That would depend on their team's assessment, I'd imagine. I don't believe the team sees Free as a liability, so I don't imagine any team would cut a player they don't consider a liability without a reliable replacement and an upgrade in place.

That said, we've seen the Cowboys walk away from talented players when the numbers didn't work for them before. Demarco Murray, for example. We saw them haggle Carr's deal down last offseason. They did it with Doug Free not to long ago.

That's not what's going on in this case. In this case, this is fans wanting him replaced because he's the offense's whipping boy, and the team instead focusing on addressing much bigger problems.

 

[waldoputty]

That would depend on their team's assessment, I'd imagine. I don't believe the team sees Free as a liability, so I don't imagine any team would cut a player they don't consider a liability without a reliable replacement and an upgrade in place.

That said, we've seen the Cowboys walk away from talented players when the numbers didn't work for them before. Demarco Murray, for example. We saw them haggle Carr's deal down last offseason. They did it with Doug Free not to long ago.

That's not what's going on in this case. In this case, this is fans wanting him replaced because he's the offense's whipping boy, and the team instead focusing on addressing much bigger problems.

That simply does not make any sense that the FO does not know Free is a problem.
Doug Free is the single biggest disaster on the offense - directly causing ~40% of all of Dak's turnovers.

Dak had 4 lost fumbles in 2016 (Packers, Vikings, Steelers and Bengals). Free was directly responsible for 3 of the 4 lost fumbles. His man also caused the 4th fumble though another passrusher flushed Dak first. Furthermore he is the 3rd worst in NFL for OL pressures allowed and OL sacks allowed:

Gil Brandt

✔@Gil_Brandt
Most OL pressures allowed:

Pasztor 38
C.Clark 38
Free 32
D.Smith 31
Remmers 30
Ogbuehi 29
Bushrod 29
Mills 29
Reiff 29
Villanueva 29

10:10 AM - 15 Dec 2016

Most OL sacks allowed:
Barksdale 10.5
Havenstein 9
Free 8
Sambrailo 8
Clemmings 7.5
Mills 7.5
Pasztor 7.5
Remmers 7.5

Here are the videos for Dak's fumbles and Free's starring role in DIRECTLY causing the fumbles:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-...mbles-as-Cowboys-drive-into-Packers-territory
http://www.vikings.com/media-vault/...e-Fumble/1230b3ae-f2a9-44be-961f-d3609267e7ab

 

[Alexander]

 

[Ranching]

Jaylon Smith to be great!!!!

http://www.espn.com/blog/dallas-cow...ones-believes-skys-the-limit-for-jaylon-smith

 

[gimmesix]

That is not a surprising statistic, but damn it hurts to read it.

It's not a correct stat, though. Two of Dak's lost fumbles can be attributed to Free. The third fumble Waldo attributes to Free was caused because Prescott was flushed from the pocket. Free's man had to go all the way around him and got to Prescott only because of other pressure. Free's man ultimately did cause the fumble, but it was a good blocking play by Free.

So, Free was directly responsible for 25 percent of Prescott's turnovers. Giving him the third turnover is like blaming the quarterback for an interception that is perfectly thrown but bounces off the receiver's hands.

 

[Deep_Freeze]

I don't think the Cowboys see Free as 'marginal at best.' And I'd guess this comment is more a byproduct of the team's cap plan than it is evidence they don't think Free can be beaten out. We saw with Leary that the team is not afraid to take a vet's spot from him if he gets outplayed. Or I guess we could just ask Tony about that. This is Free's last year in Dallas, and they expect going into camp they'll ride it out with him.

I took the statement as meaning its Free's spot already.

Like Tony and Leary, maybe Free could very well be replaced later. But why even make the statement if your Stephen??

Makes no sense to even say it.

 

[waldoputty]

It's not a correct stat, though. Two of Dak's lost fumbles can be attributed to Free. The third fumble Waldo attributes to Free was caused because Prescott was flushed from the pocket. Free's man had to go all the way around him and got to Prescott only because of other pressure. Free's man ultimately did cause the fumble, but it was a good blocking play by Free.

So, Free was directly responsible for 25 percent of Prescott's turnovers. Giving him the third turnover is like blaming the quarterback for an interception that is perfectly thrown but bounces off the receiver's hands.

@RoboQB

That is not correct. 3 of the 4 were from Free. The 4th was from Prescott flused from the pocket.
75% directly from Free.
25% from Free's man chasing Prescott after being flushed from the pocket.

Here are the 3 videos for Free's failures - ~40% of Dak's turnovers in 2016:
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-...mbles-as-Cowboys-drive-into-Packers-territory
http://www.vikings.com/media-vault/...e-Fumble/1230b3ae-f2a9-44be-961f-d3609267e7ab

 

[waldoputty]

I took the statement as meaning its Free's spot already.

Like Tony and Leary, maybe Free could very well be replaced later. But why even make the statement if your Stephen??

Makes no sense to even say it.

Possibilities:
1. Getting many questions about Free and the RT spot
2. Calling Free out indirectly because they dont want to release him without looking like they care

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Teams that go to free agency are often those that are shuffling coaching staffs. Many of these coaches don't have time to develop anybody, they have to flip the script within two years or less.

And those are the teams that suck. That's what all of this correlates to...sucking. Go to FA and chances are you suck. Change coaching staffs means chances are you suck.




YR

 

[Yakuza Rich]

I agree and I'm happy they are finally taking the time to develop players but I'd hate to see 3-4 years wasted trying to develop a formidable defense and lose a chance for t super bowl run in the process. They did that to Romo and now his window here at least is pretty much closed.

What got us to where we are on defense is trying to find that immediate impact player though and giving away picks or spending time on guys that weren't worth it.

We traded up to get DeMarcus Lawrence, lost a pick in the process and he's struggled with injuries and a suspension and while a solid player, nowhere near the impact player we thought.

Greg Hardy was a flop (thank god it was basically a pay-for-play deal we could get out of).

We tried to make the big splash with Randy Gregory and got hurt for it.

Rolando McClain was set to be our MIKE and is a waste of talent.

We had to get Mo Claiborne, traded up for him and gave up a pick in the process.

We had to get Brandon Carr and paid him like a top-5 corner.

Meanwhile, our best players on defense are guys like T. McClain who we got for dirt cheap in FA, David Irving who we got off a practice squad, Sean Lee who we spent a 2nd rounder on without trading up, Orlando Scandrick who we spent a 4th rounder on w/o trading up, Anthony Brown who we spent a 6th rounder on w/o trading up and Byron Jones who we waited until the 28th overall pick.

I don't want to wait 3-4 years to develop a formidable defense either, but our issue has been our impatience and it has us chasing our own tail in the end. Stay put, add picks, find BPA's and find coaching staffs that develop these players. It's really what we did in the Jimmy years and we were able to develop a formidable defense in 3 years and win 3 Super Bowls.







YR

 

[waldoputty]

What got us to where we are on defense is trying to find that immediate impact player though and giving away picks or spending time on guys that weren't worth it.

We traded up to get DeMarcus Lawrence, lost a pick in the process and he's struggled with injuries and a suspension and while a solid player, nowhere near the impact player we thought.

Greg Hardy was a flop (thank god it was basically a pay-for-play deal we could get out of).

We tried to make the big splash with Randy Gregory and got hurt for it.

Rolando McClain was set to be our MIKE and is a waste of talent.

We had to get Mo Claiborne, traded up for him and gave up a pick in the process.

We had to get Brandon Carr and paid him like a top-5 corner.

Meanwhile, our best players on defense are guys like T. McClain who we got for dirt cheap in FA, David Irving who we got off a practice squad, Sean Lee who we spent a 2nd rounder on without trading up, Orlando Scandrick who we spent a 4th rounder on w/o trading up, Anthony Brown who we spent a 6th rounder on w/o trading up and Byron Jones who we waited until the 28th overall pick.

I don't want to wait 3-4 years to develop a formidable defense either, but our issue has been our impatience and it has us chasing our own tail in the end. Stay put, add picks, find BPA's and find coaching staffs that develop these players. It's really what we did in the Jimmy years and we were able to develop a formidable defense in 3 years and win 3 Super Bowls.

YR

Great, in 3 years, Dez is done and 80% of Zeke's prime may be done.