Stephen Jones sees Jay Ratliff as nose tackle

[YosemiteSam]

I guess I would be interested in what sort of proof you have that Soliai would be an improvement over Ratliff.

Ratliff was the 7th rated NT/DT in the NFL per one grading service... Soliai?

38th.

When is 38th better than 7th?

Soliai was OK vs the run... And Ratliff graded out even better.

And pass-rush?

Soliai's numbers were horrible.

And who says that Ratliff's numbers at DE would be better than what they are at NT/DT?

There are not 38 starting 3-4 NTs in the league. Your numbers are skewed with players that don't even play the position.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

There are not 38 starting 3-4 NTs in the league. Your numbers are skewed with players that don't even play the position.

They include DT's also.


However that's as they say neither here nor there...

Ratliff played far better than Soliai last season.

 

[Zimmy Lives]

It's already been stated by many of you that Ratliff and Ware need help. I agree. Rather than focusing on Rat being too small or not fat enough, the Cowboys should be focusing on adding better talent in the front seven. I expect them to do that in the draft; Poe may very well be a possibility if Dallas thinks he is the best player on the board at 14.

 

[YosemiteSam]

They include DT's also.


However that's as they say neither here nor there...

Ratliff played far better than Soliai last season.

I never said he didn't. I also said we aren't trading Ratliff away. We are only moving him over. ie, his production will probably improve at DE vs NT.

The idea here is to improve, not sing the same ol' song.

Ratliff at DE and Soliai at NT is better than Ratliff at NT and Spears at DE.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I never said he didn't. I also said we aren't trading Ratliff away. We are only moving him over. ie, his production will probably improve at DE vs NT.

The idea here is to improve, not sing the same ol' song.

Ratliff at DE and Soliai at NT is better than Ratliff at NT and Spears at DE.

Oh his production will probably improve.

Gotcha.

And Spears is no longer a starter at DE.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

It's already been stated by many of you that Ratliff and Ware need help. I agree. Rather than focusing on Rat being too small or not fat enough, the Cowboys should be focusing on adding better talent in the front seven. I expect them to do that in the draft; Poe may very well be a possibility if Dallas thinks he is the best player on the board at 14.

And if they don't think he's the best player...


Then they won't.


For what it's worth, which ain't much... I don't think he is.

 

[Zimmy Lives]

And if they don't think he's the best player...


Then they won't.


For what it's worth, which ain't much... I don't think he is.

I agree. I don't think he is either.

What I would like to see is Dallas upgrade at least one of the DE positions rather than move Ratliff. To me, moving Rat to DE and replacing him with a guy like Soliai would potentially weaken both positions.

 

[YosemiteSam]

And Spears is no longer a starter at DE.

Yeah. Something is odd with that considering I thought Kenyon Coleman's performance was worse last year than Spears has been in the past.

I suppose Spears just came into camp out of shape last year or something.

 

[YosemiteSam]

I agree. I don't think he is either.

What I would like to see if Dallas upgrade at least one of the DE positions rather than move Ratliff. To me, moving Rat to DE and replacing him with a guy like Soliai would potentially weaken both positions.

Ratliff's production is actually dropping at NT. This is probably due to a combination of two factors. He is a getting older and he is undersized. The older you get, the harder it will be to play NT while being undersized. Ratliff's game is sheer effort and he gives a ton of it. At some point, physically he isn't going to be able to compete at NT anymore being undersized.

Ratliff, especially now is better suited to play DE than NT. A real NT with Ratliff shifting to DE would definitely be an upgrade over what we have now.

 

[Zimmy Lives]

Ratliff's production is actually dropping at NT. This is probably due to a combination of two factors. He is a getting older and he is undersized. The older you get, the harder it will be to play NT while being undersized. Ratliff's game is sheer effort and he gives a ton of it. At some point, physically he isn't going to be able to compete at NT anymore being undersized.

Ratliff, especially now is better suited to play DE than NT. A real NT with Ratliff shifting to DE would definitely be an upgrade over what we have now.

I actually agree with you. A real NT who commands double teams every single down would allow Ratliff to make the move to DE and be more of a playmaker. My point is that I don't think there is such a NT in FA or the draft that will do that for Rat.

 

[TheCount]

5 pressures in 451 snaps.

Not even 2% of the time.

And yet, the 49ers, Ravens and Steelers manage. It's a wonder they don't stink without their NT's racking up sacks.

I dunno...

Some of these guys just think some slom-moving 350lb monster is the answer at supplying more pass rush.

And it simply isn't unless you have a very athletic 350lb monster who has some pass rush ability. A lot of these guys don't.

"Some" guys, sure. Just like "some" of these guys think we have magically figured out a 3-4 defense that doesn't require an actual NT and that sacks are a measure of success at the position. The fact that some of us want a more prototypical NT doesn't mean we think any fat guy can play.

Basically, that is the estimated cost it would take to sign Paul Soliai from what I've heard.

I think he'll be lucky to get half that. 12m a year? That's insanity. Reminds me of the 15m a year estimates for Asomugha last year.

 

[Chuck 54]

If you have DE's who are worth a crap, the NT wouldn't be doubled every pass play.

 

[YosemiteSam]

I think he'll be lucky to get half that. 12m a year? That's insanity. Reminds me of the 15m a year estimates for Asomugha last year.

I agree, but that is what they are saying an effective 3-4 NT value is. I guess it's so high because so many teams are switching to 3-4 defenses now.

I too think it sounds quite a bit high. (thought more like $7M/year) Wilfork signed a 5 year $40M contract in 2010. He is a lot better than that guy.

 

[TheCount]

If you have DE's who are worth a crap, the NT wouldn't be doubled every pass play.

NT's get doubled regardless, it's the nature of the position. If your NT doesn't require a double, then chances are you need a new NT.

I may be heavily in favor of moving Ratliff to DE, but there's no doubt he requires a double.

 

[John813]

No way Soliali gets 12 a year, on an average.

Maybe 8-9m tops.

 

[YosemiteSam]

I just looked back, the Dolphins franchised Soliai last year and he earned $12M due to the tag. If they franchised him this year, he would make $15M. I believe they've already decided not to since they are planning a shift to a 4-3 defense.

 

[Marktui]

Why do the Jones' insist on contradicting what Garrett said? Who makes the on field decisions? The Jones' or Garrett?

Someone asked Garrett about moving to a 4-3 and he didn't shoot it down, doesn't mean we are moving to a 4-3. As of right now, it's still a 3-4 based defense.

 

[Marktui]

It's already been stated by many of you that Ratliff and Ware need help. I agree. Rather than focusing on Rat being too small or not fat enough, the Cowboys should be focusing on adding better talent in the front seven. I expect them to do that in the draft; Poe may very well be a possibility if Dallas thinks he is the best player on the board at 14.

 

[jnday]

Ratliff's production is actually dropping at NT. This is probably due to a combination of two factors. He is a getting older and he is undersized. The older you get, the harder it will be to play NT while being undersized. Ratliff's game is sheer effort and he gives a ton of it. At some point, physically he isn't going to be able to compete at NT anymore being undersized.

Ratliff, especially now is better suited to play DE than NT. A real NT with Ratliff shifting to DE would definitely be an upgrade over what we have now.

I think this post sums it up .

 

[CowboyMike]

Seems like a NT who collapsed the pocket for him would offset that, but I really don't know who played next to Sapp. Overall, just getting Rat more help is probably the main thing.

I believe it was Ted Washington that played next to Sapp. Not exactly a slump at NT.