Stopping the run, 1 goal for any defense!

[Cowboyny]

Gruden was the Head Coach when Tampa Bay won the 2002 season Super Bowl.
- Marinelli was his DLine coach.

Marinelli needs a Head Coach that will yell at him when he gets stuck in a rut.

Jon Gruden will yell at him. Garrett wound not.

The Cowboys did finally start changing things up later in the 2019 season but it's almost impossible to really implement significant scheme changes during the season without causing confusion.

Practice reps are very limited during the season. Jimmy said one of the biggest surprises to him in his 1st season in the NFL was how hard it was to accomplish any changes once the season started.

It seems the whole coaching structure was a mess. Two DC's, I know they have used that in the past, but it didn't seem like Marinelli/Richard were ever on the same page, not like when Eberflus was the team's passing DC. Garrett was the HC in title but he seemed to be totally hands off on the defensive side of the football. Change was necessary. Having an experience HC in MM should hold Nolan accountable.

 

[fivetwos]

It seems the whole coaching structure was a mess. Two DC's, I know they have used that in the past, but it didn't seem like Marinelli/Richard were ever on the same page, not like when Eberflus was the team's passing DC. Garrett was the HC in title but he seemed to be totally hands off on the defensive side of the football. Change was necessary. Having an experience HC in MM should hold Nolan accountable.

The GM hiring a head coach, then that coach hiring the assistants he wants, ya know, like every other team does things....is a large step in the right direction.

Jerry trying to put together a bunch of his buddies, and people that suck up to him and/or make him feel younger and insist that wouldnt blow up in his face kinda spoke for itself in results.

Maybe it was people who would actually agree to work under Garrett, knowing what a fraud he was. I'm sure it didnt help.

 

[xwalker]

It seems the whole coaching structure was a mess. Two DC's, I know they have used that in the past, but it didn't seem like Marinelli/Richard were ever on the same page, not like when Eberflus was the team's passing DC. Garrett was the HC in title but he seemed to be totally hands off on the defensive side of the football. Change was necessary. Having an experience HC in MM should hold Nolan accountable.

Hopefully they don't get into the same situation with the new coaching staff.

George Edwards is basically the assistant D-Coordinator. His title is Senior Defensive Assistant.

I think they wanted to hire Edwards as the LB coach but he was not ready to commit to that at the time the other coaches were hired because he was interviewing for jobs as a DC.

They hired a LB coach that had been with MM in GB but has limited experience.

They hired Edwards about 2 weeks after hiring Nolan and the LB coach.

 

[Cowboyny]

• Which of these players is the "better athlete" on the field?
  • Jamal Adams: 4.56 forty, 31-1/2" vert
  • Jeff Heath: 4.48 forty, 37" vert

I'm a fan of the Poe signing. It's possible that in 2020 he will be the better player as compared to Snacks; however...

Snacks in his peak seasons was better than Poe in his peak seasons. Snacks was the best 1tech DT in the NFL in 2016 and 2017.
- The associated press ranked him the 96th best player of 2017 and 1tech type DTs normally don't get those accolades.

Neither Poe or Snacks are going to be on the field in obvious passing situations but that does not mean they can't rush the passer.
- 350 pound DL would wear down if used as "3 down" players chasing QBs around on 3rd and long as well as stopping the run in the base defense.

Watch the play at 1:01 and 1:23 in the video below:

Snacks was an absolute beast in his NY years both with the Jets/Giants. Cowboys had great success running the football in Zeke's rookie season, they just couldn't run the ball with any against the Giants. They were 13-3 that year and lost to the Giants twice.

Poe is that athletic freak the Cowboy Front Office always drools about. He has a bit more rush abilities then Snacks, but not in the same league as a run defender. He has had his struggles with durability as well. I'm confident that Poe/Woods could be a very good combo at the position, most important is to keep both players away from the trainer's room.

 

[xwalker]

No, I said you will get torched through the air without 5 DBs on the field.

Meaning you basically can't run it with 5 DBs.

Since nickel is base, the 5-2 can't be your base defense.

Did the OP say 5-2 as the base?

The word "Base" is often used in coach speak to mean the 1st and 10 vs 2 WRs type defense, NOT the defense that they use for the most snaps.

Marinelli's definition of "Base" was definitely the defense they primary used on 1st & 10 vs 2 WRs, not the defense that they used for the most snaps.

 

[Cowboyny]

Hopefully they don't get into the same situation with the new coaching staff.

George Edwards is basically the assistant D-Coordinator. His title is Senior Defensive Assistant.

I think they wanted to hire Edwards as the LB coach but he was not ready to commit to that at the time the other coaches were hired because he was interviewing for jobs as a DC.

They hired a LB coach that had been with MM in GB but has limited experience.

They hired Edwards about 2 weeks after hiring Nolan and the LB coach.

-If I remember correctly, there was a podcast a while ago with the former Cowboy Safety IIoka. He stated the the Minnesota defensive coaches were excellent in scheming ways to free up rushers. I wonder if Edwards had a hand in that.

-Nolan last stop was as a linebacker asst coach. He can probably assist in that area to help the new coach with limited experience.

 

[Cowboyny]

Did the OP say 5-2 as the base?

The word "Base" is often used in coach speak to mean the 1st and 10 vs 2 WRs type defense, NOT the defense that they use for the most snaps.

Marinelli's definition of "Base" was definitely the defense they primary used on 1st & 10 vs 2 WRs, not the defense that they used for the most snaps.

Yes, when I reference the term base defense, I am talking the early run downs. In the past the Cowboys have used Crawford as the team's RE in their base defense cause he was more of a run defender.

 

[Cowboyny]

The GM hiring a head coach, then that coach hiring the assistants he wants, ya know, like every other team does things....is a large step in the right direction.

Jerry trying to put together a bunch of his buddies, and people that suck up to him and/or make him feel younger and insist that wouldnt blow up in his face kinda spoke for itself in results.

Maybe it was people who would actually agree to work under Garrett, knowing what a fraud he was. I'm sure it didnt help.

We are looking towards the future now. The team needs to avoid having multiple voices, they need one central figure who has the ability to delegate responsibilities.

 

[buybuydandavis]

Hill was stout against the run when he did play in the regular season. He just didn't rush the passer that way the Marinelli wanted.

Mike Nolan runs a multiple front which makes it hard to predict the roles of DLinemen.

Nolan likes to go with a heavy front 7 in order to stop the run with 7 men in the box.
- It is the opposite of Marinelli with a small front 7 plus a SS up near the line.

Belichick uses many similar concepts to what Nolan has used in the past.
- When Belichick wanted to stop the run in 2019, he would have a DL of (by weight): DE (320) NT (340) DE (300)

I can see Nolan wanting to use Woods and Poe together in his max run defense sets.

It's so disorienting thinking that the coaches might use the most appropriate personnel for the situation.

Using Woods and Poe helps to solve our relative lack of pass rushing DTs, as that would let McCoy focus more on nickel than the base.

Very good for Woods' career to be getting snaps at RDT. Maybe he'll be able to get a decent contract when he hits free agency.

 

[buybuydandavis]

All of the other teams used a Lineman to push the bag...

Doesn't explain why Jaylon wouldn't plant and push off with his left foot.

 

[Future]

Did the OP say 5-2 as the base?

The word "Base" is often used in coach speak to mean the 1st and 10 vs 2 WRs type defense, NOT the defense that they use for the most snaps.

Marinelli's definition of "Base" was definitely the defense they primary used on 1st & 10 vs 2 WRs, not the defense that they used for the most snaps.

Yes, which is why I am saying that nickel is base, and a 5-2 can't be your base defense.

 

[Doomsday101]

To become a top ranked defense requires the ability to stop the run and pass. You job as a defense is get the ball out of the offense hands be it on downs or turnovers. To me it is not an either or, it is both.

 

[quickccc]

Did you watch the video? Did you see Snacks out-quick Frederick?

The point of Heath/Adams is that Heath had better measurable(s) but Adams has better functional athleticism on the field but you're obsessing about the measurable(s) of Snacks and Poe.

I've already mentioned that the only 2 DL that I've seen cause problems for Frederick and Martin with regards to power were Snacks and Poe.

I've already said that Poe might be the better player in 2020 because Snacks' performance declined significantly in 2019.

My point(s) are not related to which player the Cowboys should have signed for 2020.

My primary point is that you're severely underrating Snacks in his prime seasons based on combine measurable(s).

Not only did i see the video of Snack tossing Martin and Fredrick aside individually, as i recalled watching that
game but i've gone further back in re-watching both 2016 NYG games.

Equally i dunno what your obsession with disputing Poe being the better athlete of the two (underrating Snack based off measurements) Snack is not the better pure athlete of the two, but how does that take away from what Snack used to be in his prime as a premiere run stuffer (to which i previously post ) .

Neither are sack artists, never have been counted on to be as such, but what either were years ago in their prime, is irrelevant now.
But it's clearly more about which offers the best package at this time.
In the Cowboys eyes, Poe was clearly in the picture ..Snack was not (per his tweet)

.. ".Til the Next Episode ".
.

 

[StarBoyz83]

We will see what happens but the poe and Mccoy signings really do nothing for me. I dont expect a big upgrade at dt.

 

[Whirlwin]

I truly believe you put in the scheme according to your opponent. Yes stopping the run is very important. But it doesn’t always have to be the priority

 

[Whirlwin]

We will see what happens but the poe and Mccoy signings really do nothing for me. I dont expect a big upgrade at dt.

Seriously. We have to be better than we have been. Although I understand show me first. It looks good on paper my cowboy brother

 

[Whirlwin]

Not only did i see the video of Snack tossing Martin and Fredrick aside individually, as i recalled watching that
game but i've gone further back in re-watching both 2016 NYG games.

Equally i dunno what your obsession with disputing Poe being the better athlete of the two (underrating Snack based off measurements) Snack is not the better pure athlete of the two, but how does that take away from what Snack used to be in his prime as a premiere run stuffer (to which i previously post ) .

Neither are sack artists, never have been counted on to be as such, but what either were years ago in their prime, is irrelevant now.
But it's clearly more about which offers the best package at this time.
In the Cowboys eyes, Poe was clearly in the picture ..Snack was not (per his tweet)

.. ".Til the Next Episode ".
.

I think this offense of line was built for running the football not so much for Pet protection

 

[StarBoyz83]

Seriously. We have to be better than we have been. Although I understand show me first. It looks good on paper my cowboy brother

They both didn't play well last year but maybe a change of scenery will help them.

 

[xwalker]

Yes, which is why I am saying that nickel is base, and a 5-2 can't be your base defense.

I don't see the word base in the OP.

He is saying that a 4-3 with a 3-4 type OLB as the SLB is basically a 5-2. If you line up a DWare or Spencer type OLB at the SLB in and 4-3 defense, then it's basically a 5-2 or a 4.75-2.25...

The OP:
We hear the same mantra from the defensive coaches: #1 priority need to stop the run, make the opponent become one dimensional.

-We are all aware the Cowboy Rush Defense was exposed in that Ram playoff loss, many would point to the Colt defeat a few weeks prior. Xwalker has explained numerous times how we failed to adjust to the zbs scheme in which New England did against the Rams in the Super Bowl.

-The Cowboy Defense was ranked #11 in the league against the run last season, this was very misleading as the defense struggled badly against the run for the majority of the season. Throw in their inability to stop the screen pass, which is an extension of the run, it was a total disaster. The three NFC North games come to mind, Green Bay, Minnesota and Chicago.

-During the Wade Phillips years as the team's HC/DC, the Cowboys were one of the better run defenses in the league. They were a defense that rarely needed to bring down a safety for run support. Many think the 3-4 scheme is more about disguising who is rushing the passer, but it is actually designed to be a better scheme to stop the run.

-The best alignment to stop the run is the 5-2 front. Five down lineman and two linebackers. Many of the early posts regarding Nolan's scheme has discussed this type of formation. We have discussed 4 down lineman and another DE/SOLB Designated Pass Rusher. This role is more for a DE then it is for a linebacker. That is a 5-2 front and should be strong at stopping the run.

-If the team is unable to win the early rushing downs, we can forget about all those exotic rush packages. Stopping the run is the team;s #1 priority, if that's accomplished, the defense vastly improves this season!

 

[xwalker]

Doesn't explain why Jaylon wouldn't plant and push off with his left foot.

The injury that Jaylon had in college never caused a problem for him in terms of pushing forward.

If there is a physical problem with him pushing forward, it is not because of the nerve damage.

The issue with the Pro Bowl Skills Challenge and the bag is an absurd attempt to confirm confirmation bias.
- The AFC team had a Lineman push the bag AND he hit the bag from a running start.
- Jaylon (for unknown reasons) walked up to the bag and started pushing without a running start. Those bags were rigged to make that almost impossible.

I've watched him on the field where there a hundreds of snaps and multiple camera angles. The "bag" video is meaningless.