Successful teams are not afraid to be unconventional

[Winonesoon]

Can you imagine a time and place with this forum when Jerry Jones bought the Dallas Cowboys and fired Tom Landry? Not only that but hired a coach that had not coached a single down in the NFL.

Holy crap!...This place would have been on "RED ALERT" for weeks! I hope we recapture the magic.

 

[Sydla]

You measure success as being a better loser than the last place loser. There is only one winner dude. More successful doesnt exist

Without looking, what teams were almost successful in 2003, 2008, 2004, and so on. Who cares

When you look back at football history, you look at superbowl winners. Therefore 31 teams dont matter each year

I don't need to make myself feel better. I gave you the pattern I see in winning a superbowl in the salary cap era, and a good assesment of how the cowboys relate in it compared to other teams.

Your formula is: the cowboys havent won, so I blame owners/gms, yet I can't give a way to win a superbowl, except not what they are doing. How about giving something of value besides "cowboys bad" cry cry cry

You like to make excuses for the franchise. I get it. It's tough when your franchise continues to fall on its face. But as a fan, I tend to look at why they are failing whereas you excuse the failings because, hey, a lot of other teams failed too so it's all good.

You want a formula? Start by Jerry and Stephen not thinking they are football minds and bringing in a real GM who has a vision for the kind of roster he wants. The biggest hurdle to the Cowboys winning anything of note is Jerry and Stephen. Sure that's not going to happen but at the end of the day, as long as Jerry and Stephen continue to do what they do, this franchise likely will never get beyond where they are now.

 

[blueblood70]

Teams seem to want to copycat each other. QBs are an example of that. For so long teams only looked at the prototypical QB. Now that teams are willing to get a dual threat QB there are more high quality QBs in the league.

Teams seem to want to “pay their own” and overpay to keep good (not great players). That’s one way to do it, but it kills your salary cap.

For instance Dallas has been very successful drafting OL but not so good at selecting defenders. Dallas might have been better served by churning the OL (even with high round picks) and flipping them for picks, or other players.

Dallas has found a good player in Biadacz, but what if the Cowboys traded Biadacz for say a third round pick and drafted Creed Humphrey in the second. You get one more year of cheap labor and profit from the trade.

Tyrons contract was very team friendly and is even more so now. But Martin is/was the highest paid guard in the NFL. That’s a cap killer. If you could have flipped Martin for a first and a third prior to his massive contract extension would that have been a better deal? It may have hurt the OL a little but would the defense have more assets?

OK FAN Keyboard Experts..ahh the Fake wannbegms are out with claws out..use a fan page to just spew team hate..got to luv this place..

best advice i can give to fans

be fans, stay in your freaking lanes... you may FEEL like you can do this better then the Jonses, newsflash , you CAN NOT!!

 

[jhj7098]

There's a reason this franchise hasn't won anything in 25+ years. This is a big reason why!

 

[dsturgeon]

You like to make excuses for the franchise. I get it. It's tough when your franchise continues to fall on its face. But as a fan, I tend to look at why they are failing whereas you excuse the failings because, hey, a lot of other teams failed too so it's all good.

You want a formula? Start by Jerry and Stephen not thinking they are football minds and bringing in a real GM who has a vision for the kind of roster he wants. The biggest hurdle to the Cowboys winning anything of note is Jerry and Stephen. Sure that's not going to happen but at the end of the day, as long as Jerry and Stephen continue to do what they do, this franchise likely will never get beyond where they are now.

What don't you get, I have said they have been complete losers the past 24 years.

Me saying they have put together multiple teams that could have won the superbowl, is not an excuse. Even though they didn't win those years, they could have beat any team in the nfl.

If you look at how the superbowls have turned out in the salary cap era, another gm would most likely be a loser. This is what i am saying. Just like the patriots are most likely going to be losers now. Even though they are praised at having a top notch gm/owner/coahc

 

[Sydla]

What don't you get, I have said they have been complete losers the past 24 years.

Me saying they have put together multiple teams that could have won the superbowl, is not an excuse. Even though they didn't win those years, they could have beat any team in the nfl.

If you look at how the superbowls have turned out in the salary cap era, another gm would most likely be a loser. This is what i am saying. Just like the patriots are most likely going to be losers now. Even though they are praised at having a top notch gm/owner/coahc

That's not what you are really saying though. You say they have been losers but then quickly follow that up by saying basically all these other teams are losers too so it's OK that the Cowboys continually come up way short. You are attempting to rationalize away their failures.

You like to deal in generalities. Hey guys, we had some teams that could have won the SB, so it's not that bad! I prefer to deal in facts. And the fact is this franchise has won 4 playoff games in 25 years. That's one of the lowest win totals in the playoffs in the NFL over that period. That's just a fact, a sad reality at just how inept they have been.

That's not bad luck, or aww shucks, 31 teams are losers every year, etc. Its an indication of how poorly run this franchise has been over the last two decades and basically nothing has changed because of it because at the end of the day, Jerry still thinks he's the smartest guy in the room.

 

[Section446]

Biadasz isn't worth much right now.

He's a year 2 guy who played here and there as a rookie and looked ok.

Cowboys struck gold on 3 OL in the draft. 2 of the 3 should be on the way to Canton, and the 3rd retired early before being considered a HOF.

The offensive line also played a key part in the way this team was setup under Garrett.

You make a hole to hopefully fill another hole but are still left with one hole.

There's no guarantee that the draft pick from Martin pans out and now you let a top 2-3 guard go.

Get ready to be destroyed. Don't you know? If he wears a Star, he's an instant HOF lock.

 

[dsturgeon]

That's not what you are really saying though. You say they have been losers but then quickly follow that up by saying basically all these other teams are losers too so it's OK that the Cowboys continually come up way short. You are attempting to rationalize away their failures.

You like to deal in generalities. Hey guys, we had some teams that could have won the SB, so it's not that bad! I prefer to deal in facts. And the fact is this franchise has won 4 playoff games in 25 years. That's one of the lowest win totals in the playoffs in the NFL over that period. That's just a fact, a sad reality at just how inept they have been.

That's not bad luck, or aww shucks, 31 teams are losers every year, etc. Its an indication of how poorly run this franchise has been over the last two decades and basically nothing has changed because of it because at the end of the day, Jerry still thinks he's the smartest guy in the room.

playoff wins dont matter if you dont get a superbowl.

If they had 15 playoff wins and 0 superbowl wins, would you feel better?

If your "facts" are better than the formula i gave, tell me how other gms win superbowls by the drafts, trades, and other moves they make, and how that relates to wins. And not just a 1 year example, do it over the whole salary cap era. I just don't see what you claim by the superbowl winners.

I still maintain, superbowls are won by 1-2 abnormaly dominant players on a team that happens to be built to support them, in a 1-3 year time period, and that those 1-2 players are not determined by high draft picks. And that gm's and coaches have less to do with it than people think

 

[Sydla]

playoff wins dont matter if you dont get a superbowl.

If they had 15 playoff wins and 0 superbowl wins, would you feel better?

If your "facts" are better than the formula i gave, tell me how other gms win superbowls by the drafts, trades, and other moves they make, and how that relates to wins. I just don't see it.

I still maintain, superbowls are won by 1-2 abnormaly dominant players on a team that happens to be built to support them, in a 1-3 year time period, and that those 1-2 players are not determined by high draft picks. And that gm's and coaches have less to do with it than people think

See you are doing it again. You are rationalizing away their failures.

And I don't understand your other point about how you don't see how GMs making smart decisions doesn't relate to wins. Any analysis that concludes that GMs and coaches don't have a big influence on results is preposterous. But again, that kind of logic is expected from one who is basically trying to rationalize away the last 25 years of Cowboys football.

 

[charron]

I applaud the willingness to even consider trading any player for multiple picks/ assets to better the team. But I would need more than a 1st and 3rd for martin, though we are really good at drafting OL. We are just terrible at drafting defense, at any position.

 

[dsturgeon]

See you are doing it again. You are rationalizing away their failures.

And I don't understand your other point about how you don't see how GMs making smart decisions doesn't relate to wins. Any analysis that concludes that GMs and coaches don't have a big influence on results is preposterous.

Here is my other point, the patriots have had the "so called top gm/owner/coach combo", and have had the most dominant superbowl winning team. If gm's, coaches, and owners matter, how can the cowboys beat them? How can the cowboys higher a better gm and coach than what they have?

It was the luckiest pick in sports histroy that was a 6th round pick that led to those superbowls. Not the coaches, gms, owners. Even though I know the defense was the main reason for the first 2.

The gm and coaches are responsible for a lot of that, but if not for Tom Brady, none of that happens.

Just like, even with that same gm and coach, the patriots are most likely going to be irrelevant now that Brady is gone, and fall into the 31 losing teams every year. So, from last year and on the patriot organization will be losers like everyone else

The cowboys could get another gm, but they would still most likely lose

This is what i mean by the gm coaches not being as relevant as people think

 

[LACowboysFan1]

I am not sold on the dual threat qb's. I don't think they are worth it

I would tend to agree, if for no other reason than nearly all the multiple SB winning quarterbacks were not - Brady, Aikman, both Mannings, even going back to Bradshaw and Montana. Even Staubach and Griese were "reformed" scramblers. And how did we lose our starting quarterback last year? On a run. Same with Romo's last injury.

But there's always exceptions, Wilson, Mahomes etc. come to mind.

But overall it's smarts more than being a "dual threat" quarterback to me that's more valuable...

 

[Western]

Successful teams have a hierarchical chain of command, accountability, & knowledgeable authoritative intelligent individuals running the football operations.

With the Cowboys, you have:

 

[Sydla]

Here is my other point, the patriots have had the "so called top gm/owner/coach combo", and have had the most dominant superbowl winning team. If gm's, coaches, and owners matter, how can the cowboys beat them? How can the cowboys higher a better gm and coach than what they have?

It was the luckiest pick in sports histroy that was a 6th round pick that led to those superbowls. Not the coaches, gms, owners. Even though I know the defense was the main reason for the first 2.

The gm and coaches are responsible for a lot of that, but if not for Tom Brady, none of that happens.

Just like, even with that same gm and coach, the patriots are most likely going to be irrelevant now that Brady is gone, and fall into the 31 losing teams every year. So, from last year and on the patriot organization will be losers like everyone else

The cowboys could get another gm, but they would still most likely lose

This is what i mean by the gm coaches not being as relevant as people think

So hey, it's OK. Because most teams lose.

 

[jaythecowboy]

If anything Cowboys are the unconventional ones, but would be better being more conventional. There was a thread on free agent spending in here and the Cowboys spent so little the article didn't even include them on the chart. No one else is doing that, but unconventional doesn't automatically mean it will work.

 

[Aven8]

I realize we won’t win the SB every year. I just want to be in the picture every year with a chance. Like when Landry won 19 divisions. Like Duke does. Like the Lakers, Yankees, and Packers. Just get in. Don’t be the Florida Marlins. Be those teams.....That’s where the Jones don’t get it.

 

[RonnieT24]

I would tend to agree, if for no other reason than nearly all the multiple SB winning quarterbacks were not - Brady, Aikman, both Mannings, even going back to Bradshaw and Montana. Even Staubach and Griese were "reformed" scramblers. And how did we lose our starting quarterback last year? On a run. Same with Romo's last injury.

But there's always exceptions, Wilson, Mahomes etc. come to mind.

But overall it's smarts more than being a "dual threat" quarterback to me that's more valuable...

Smarts is absolutely the most important component of a QB.. But give me a smart QB who CAN run over a smart QB who can't. It just gives me another asset to use against a defense. There is a long list of guys who came into the league as good, athletic QBs who could run out of trouble or for a first down if need be but did less of it as they got older and smarter.. However aside from getting injured, like Troy with his knee and back, these guys didn't stop being good athletes just because they got older and smarter.. Elway was a great example.. Dude was a phenomenal athlete (drafted by the Yankees? as an outfielder) who could take off and run his whole career.. but as he got older he almost never did.. the notable exception being the "helicopter" run in the Super Bowl. Steve Young was another.. Young had 4.3 speed as a youngster.. FOUR FRIGGIN THREE... who by his own admission couldn't hit the broad side of a barn when he came into the league, but as soon as he won a Super Bowl people started claiming he was a pocket passer.. It was hilarious. People who missed seeing young Terry Bradshaw and Joe Montana also miss the boat on how athletic those guys were when they came into the league.. But then close your eyes and remember perhaps the most iconic plays in NFL history The Immaculate Reception and The Catch both were accomplished after the QB ran away from the rush and made an amazing throw.. Well in Bradshaw's case it should have been picked off but let's not revisit that..

 

[dsturgeon]

So hey, it's OK. Because most teams lose.

I never said it is ok. It is just my look at the salary cap era, and how the cowboys fit in it.

The GM is not going to change, and chances are they would lose with a new one.

I am optimistic about this coming few years. I think the cowboys will might have the most dominant offense in the league

 

[RonnieT24]

I never said it is ok. It is just my look at the salary cap era, and how the cowboys fit in it.

The GM is not going to change, and chances are they would lose with a new one.

I am optimistic about this coming few years. I think the cowboys will might have the most dominant offense in the league

From your fingers to God's ears.. I think if they can stay healthy they will score 35 a game... The question is will it be enough or will the defense give up 36 a game..

 

[dsturgeon]

Smarts is absolutely the most important component of a QB.. But give me a smart QB who CAN run over a smart QB who can't. It just gives me another asset to use against a defense. There is a long list of guys who came into the league as good, athletic QBs who could run out of trouble or for a first down if need be but did less of it as they got older and smarter.. However aside from getting injured, like Troy with his knee and back, these guys didn't stop being good athletes just because they got older and smarter.. Elway was a great example.. Dude was a phenomenal athlete (drafted by the Yankees? as an outfielder) who could take off and run his whole career.. but as he got older he almost never did.. the notable exception being the "helicopter" run in the Super Bowl. Steve Young was another.. Young had 4.3 speed as a youngster.. FOUR FRIGGIN THREE... who by his own admission couldn't hit the broad side of a barn when he came into the league, but as soon as he won a Super Bowl people started claiming he was a pocket passer.. It was hilarious. People who missed seeing young Terry Bradshaw and Joe Montana also miss the boat on how athletic those guys were when they came into the league.. But then close your eyes and remember perhaps the most iconic plays in NFL history The Immaculate Reception and The Catch both were accomplished after the QB ran away from the rush and made an amazing throw.. Well in Bradshaw's case it should have been picked off but let's not revisit that..

The problem is that the qb's who are smart and can run rely on running run too much. I think they need to be dominant in the pocket. When the qb is good at running, he never learns that maneuvering in the pocket, and finding the receiver while staying in the pocket. He falls back on running and leaves the pocket.

When you take into consideration paying the qb, what you give up getting the qb, and all of that, I don't think the extra dynamic of running is worth it. Time will tell though

Mahomes is already getting beat up, Lamar wont last with what he is doing, Dak will think twice about trying to level people.

I will take a smart qb who can work the pocket to a smart qb who can run.

I hope dak stays in the pocket and takes sacks, he has the weapons, he doesnt need to do more. Can run every once in awhile