Twitter: Super Bowl Teams Who Continually Draft OL In The 1st Round.

[MountaineerCowboy]

You do not win without the trenches either. The eagles had both an amazing O line and D line last year. Without that O line Saquon would not have had the record breaking year that he did. We would not have to take a Guard in the first round if we are active in FA. Since we suck at FA we have to invest in the lines through the draft. We have spent premium picks on Zeke and CeeDee, how many superbowls have they won? This is a team sport and you start with the trenches as all premium picks on offence need a decent O line to operate.

You’ve got to get your QB before you focus on anything else.

And by get your QB I mean one that is skilled and talented, not paid well.

 

[shabazz]

I would be okay with the inside out approach, except we never do the outside part of it.

You'll take your Jonathon Mingo and like it!, lol

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

You do not win without the trenches either. The eagles had both an amazing O line and D line last year. Without that O line Saquon would not have had the record breaking year that he did. We would not have to take a Guard in the first round if we are active in FA. Since we suck at FA we have to invest in the lines through the draft. We have spent premium picks on Zeke and CeeDee, how many superbowls have they won? This is a team sport and you start with the trenches as all premium picks on offence need a decent O line to operate.

oh, I am 100% in agreement with you. but do you spend a premium pick on a guard, the least important position on the OL? a LT, heck yes. but guard? I don't think so. how many of the eagles OL men were drafted in the top 15? yet as you said, they have a great OL and Barkley did great. if you are bad at player evaluation and drafting, then you spend your high picks on non-premium positions because you are afraid to miss. we have three 1st round picks on the OL. THREE!!!!! and two of them are guards!!!!

so how many of the past 10 superbowl teams have three 1st round OL men on their team. no, lets make that the past 15!

and the problem you speak of is, we are not very good in talent evaluation and managing draft and player personnel on the TEAM.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I think that info is a little misleading though....KC traded for and gave a top contract to Joe Thuney a few years back. They also just invested $23M to Trey Smith. Also used a 2nd round pick on Creed Humphrey. They clearly value the interior OL positions. Granted Smith was a 6th round pick and evidence that you can find quality linemen deeper in the draft KC is still throwing pretty significant resources at the position.

Philly used the #37 overall pick on Landon Dickerson and another 2nd round pick on Jurgens. Cycling through that RG spot may come back to bite them this year, but they also continue to invest in former busted 1st round picks.

I don't think you'll get a huge amount of disagreement that #12 is high for a guard unless they're Larry Allen level but given the average talent in the first round of this draft I'm not sure its quite the reach many think it is. I'd much rather them hit on a guard than reach and miss on more valuable position but its a player they don't like as much.

my point wasn't don't value the OL. my point is you don't spend a top 12 pick on a guard. right now we have 3 first round OL men on the team....that's 3 premium picks. two of which are guards.

now, they spent 23M on trey smith. who was a 6th round pick. so the question is not spending. the question is which draft pick capital are you going to use to find the players to build your team.

and you just proved my point for me. so I appreciate it....picks in 2nd round. not top 15......

and btw, larry Allen. the best guard ever was a 2nd round pick.

 

[kskboys]

oh, I am 100% in agreement with you. but do you spend a premium pick on a guard, the least important position on the OL? a LT, heck yes. but guard? I don't think so. how many of the eagles OL men were drafted in the top 15? yet as you said, they have a great OL and Barkley did great. if you are bad at player evaluation and drafting, then you spend your high picks on non-premium positions because you are afraid to miss. we have three 1st round picks on the OL. THREE!!!!! and two of them are guards!!!!

so how many of the past 10 superbowl teams have three 1st round OL men on their team. no, lets make that the past 15!

and the problem you speak of is, we are not very good in talent evaluation and managing draft and player personnel on the TEAM.

I like Booker, I do, but Grant was the correct pick. He'd have gone a Looooooonng way into solving the problem we've had for many many years.

 

[kskboys]

my point wasn't don't value the OL. my point is you don't spend a top 12 pick on a guard. right now we have 3 first round OL men on the team....that's 3 premium picks. two of which are guards.

now, they spent 23M on trey smith. who was a 6th round pick. so the question is not spending. the question is which draft pick capital are you going to use to find the players to build your team.

and you just proved my point for me. so I appreciate it....picks in 2nd round. not top 15......

and btw, larry Allen. the best guard ever was a 2nd round pick.

We're just so bad at talent evaluation that we have to take the easy picks. And a strong OL will lead us to 8-10 wins and relevance. Don't forget, Jerry doesn't want to win, he wants to remain relevant, and that's what this draft screams. Semi relevant.

 

[MountaineerCowboy]

my point wasn't don't value the OL. my point is you don't spend a top 12 pick on a guard. right now we have 3 first round OL men on the team....that's 3 premium picks. two of which are guards.

now, they spent 23M on trey smith. who was a 6th round pick. so the question is not spending. the question is which draft pick capital are you going to use to find the players to build your team.

and you just proved my point for me. so I appreciate it....picks in 2nd round. not top 15......

and btw, larry Allen. the best guard ever was a 2nd round pick.

The great 90s OLine of the Dallas Cowboys didn’t have a single 1st round pick on it.

It did have a 1st round QB, RB, and 2 1st round WRs though.

 

[kskboys]

my point wasn't don't value the OL. my point is you don't spend a top 12 pick on a guard. right now we have 3 first round OL men on the team....that's 3 premium picks. two of which are guards.

now, they spent 23M on trey smith. who was a 6th round pick. so the question is not spending. the question is which draft pick capital are you going to use to find the players to build your team.

and you just proved my point for me. so I appreciate it....picks in 2nd round. not top 15......

and btw, larry Allen. the best guard ever was a 2nd round pick.

We're just so bad at talent evaluation that we have to take the easy picks. And a strong OL will lead us to 8-10 wins and relevance. Don't forget, Jerry doesn't want to win, he wants to remain relevant, and that's what this draft screams.

The great 90s OLine of the Dallas Cowboys didn’t have a single 1st round pick on it.

It did have a 1st round QB, RB, and 2 1st round WRs though.

And the deepest DLine in the NFL which is why we won 3 super bowls.

 

[John813]

In my opinion, only offensive tackles are worth a first round grade.
Guards do not need to be an after thought/ignored completely, but I feel like Dallas also has splurged on guards, when it's not a crucial position to take up high.

Dallas once again ignored the DT spot till the Scratch off lotto ticket rounds.
In a draft that had some depth, they went another direction again.

I've posted it before, but unless Booker is Zach Martin 2.0, his play at guard won't be a huge difference maker over an average to above average guard.
I would of rather rolled the dice on a DT at 12. even if their floor could of been potentially lower

 

[thunderpimp91]

my point wasn't don't value the OL. my point is you don't spend a top 12 pick on a guard. right now we have 3 first round OL men on the team....that's 3 premium picks. two of which are guards.

now, they spent 23M on trey smith. who was a 6th round pick. so the question is not spending. the question is which draft pick capital are you going to use to find the players to build your team.

and you just proved my point for me. so I appreciate it....picks in 2nd round. not top 15......

and btw, larry Allen. the best guard ever was a 2nd round pick.

Most years I'd agree, but I don't think we can ignore the reality of this years draft class where value really wasnt there at #12. I think Grant is a very good argument to have been the selection at #12, but then we are also talking about using a premium pick on a player who is going to rotate in and out to be a 35ish snap player. Is that getting value at 12? Maybe. Other options there were Golden who went in the 20s and some felt was a 2nd round grade. Is that getting value? Is taking a TE, RB, or LB value there?

This years draft was simply one where I'm way less focused on getting value with that early pick. The Cowboys needed to beef up the lines on both sides, and unfortunately they only did so on one side of the football. The real issue is that yet again they wont go spend $15-20m on a player in FA to help them get to the next level so they are forced into overdrafting some of these guys. The FA issue pretty much guaranteed that the draft wasn't going to be able to fix all the Cowboys issues and in my mind the bigger issue than selecting Booker at 12.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Most years I'd agree, but I don't think we can ignore the reality of this years draft class where value really wasnt there at #12. I think Grant is a very good argument to have been the selection at #12, but then we are also talking about using a premium pick on a player who is going to rotate in and out to be a 35ish snap player. Is that getting value at 12? Maybe. Other options there were Golden who went in the 20s and some felt was a 2nd round grade. Is that getting value? Is taking a TE, RB, or LB value there?

This years draft was simply one where I'm way less focused on getting value with that early pick. The Cowboys needed to beef up the lines on both sides, and unfortunately they only did so on one side of the football. The real issue is that yet again they wont go spend $15-20m on a player in FA to help them get to the next level so they are forced into overdrafting some of these guys. The FA issue pretty much guaranteed that the draft wasn't going to be able to fix all the Cowboys issues and in my mind the bigger issue than selecting Booker at 12.

value? what is value of a guard at 12? again, how many 1st round OL men do we need? how many had we had and didn't get anywhere?

I would have made a trade down, take less that the point value system, end up with the same player and still have another pick. people worry about "...well, the points don't add up and we lost the trade". however, which scenario would be better, trade down get the same player, or similar value and have an extra pick or pick a guard at 12.

don't get me wrong. I like booker. but booker at 12 is a reach. again, its the least important position on the OL. LT, RT, Center, then guard. and at that, RG is less values than LG, which still somewhat protects the QBs blind side.

and yes, our lack of actual activity in FA, plus incompetency of FO, leads to stupidity in the draft.

 

[Carter]

The problem isnt three O-Liners being first round picks. Its that we suck at Free Agency. You could focus drafting O-Line in the first when you are active in Free Agency to fill other holes. Cowboys arent though. Cowboys only focus on the Draft and thats just not enough to improve to contend.

 

[thunderpimp91]

value? what is value of a guard at 12? again, how many 1st round OL men do we need? how many had we had and didn't get anywhere?

I would have made a trade down, take less that the point value system, end up with the same player and still have another pick. people worry about "...well, the points don't add up and we lost the trade". however, which scenario would be better, trade down get the same player, or similar value and have an extra pick or pick a guard at 12.

don't get me wrong. I like booker. but booker at 12 is a reach. again, its the least important position on the OL. LT, RT, Center, then guard. and at that, RG is less values than LG, which still somewhat protects the QBs blind side.

and yes, our lack of actual activity in FA, plus incompetency of FO, leads to stupidity in the draft.

I'm not saying there was value at guard at 12, I'm just saying there really wasnt value at all to be had on the board so I can justify taking a guard at that spot. I think there are some argument on who would have been better selections, but nothing that was a no brainer type of selection there....and many of the options were 1T, RB, TE, LB which are positions that also tend to be devalued.
I'm also saying that the root issue comes back to the lack of FA spending. If they were willing to do that they wouldn't have to build the OL through the draft. The Cowboys put themselves in position year after year not just to hit on their early picks, but they need plug and play type guys. Its a horrible team building strategy, but its the reality of how Jerry/Stephen do it. Later round OL can be found but they typically need multiple years of development. The Cowboys need OL help in the worst way week 1 of this year which is why I go back to throw out positional value and just take quality players. Its more important for the Cowboys to hit on a good player early than it is to go after positional value on a player that comes with more risk. Its not ideal, but this is what Jerry has created.

 

[Xizor]

I don't think I said anything about him playing after his current contract, but barring another catastrophic injury - and he's had two already - 35 is not 'aging out' of the QB position in 2025, much less 2029. Yes, we'll need to start looking to the future at every position eventually. When that will be with Dak is hard for anyone to say. He could have two miserable years in a row during his current contract and the future is then now, or we could somehow go to 2 NFCCGs or SBs in the last 2 years of his contract, which would get him yet another contract.

The idea of predicting the future is folly. For goodness' sake, Flacco is still starting. What is he, 40? Brady, Rodgers (I know, he's in freefall, but there are MANY posters here who think we should have gone after Rodgers post-35), Stafford is 37, Brees was 42 when he stepped away, Cousins is 36 and doing exactly the same thing that he's always done. Rules changes and players taking care of their bodies has increased their shelf life. If Dak can win, I don't care how old he is. Dak led us to 12 win seasons 3 years in a row before he got hurt this last time. Talk about post-season success all you like, but you have to get to the post-season first. 12 win years are very good in the NFL, 13+ wins are outstanding, and not many teams get 13 in any given year.

All I am saying is think your reading way too much into my joke. I never said my feelings about Dak I was commenting about drafting. I am not a Dak hater. I think a lot of his issues are due to Mccarthy trying to play him like A Rog. He isn't that type of QB who can take over a game. He needs a running game defenses fear to be successful. His best plays have always come from playaction. Why I am hopeful about direction Shotty seems to be taking us which is exactly this. A strong running game. I tell all my non Cowboys fan who tell me all the time that Dak sucks that if regular season Dak came to play in the playoffs that people might think differently of him. My Steelers friend said he would rather have Mason Rudolph then Dak lol. You never have to worry about Dak's work ethic and I am sure that he knows if he wins the big one his mantra will instantly change. I am a Cowboys fan thru and thru so I would never root against our players. I understand why some do not like him but hate I do not understand. You should always hate opposing players never your own. I meant no offense I was just playing around.

 

[zrinkill]

Eric Williams 3rd round draft pick
Mark Tuinei. Undrafted
Nate Newton. Undrafted
Mark Stepnoski 3rd round pick
Larry Allen 2nd round pick
Kevin Googan 8th round pick

The differance is these guys were blocking for Troy Aikman and Emmitt Smith

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I'm not saying there was value at guard at 12, I'm just saying there really wasnt value at all to be had on the board so I can justify taking a guard at that spot. I think there are some argument on who would have been better selections, but nothing that was a no brainer type of selection there....and many of the options were 1T, RB, TE, LB which are positions that also tend to be devalued.
I'm also saying that the root issue comes back to the lack of FA spending. If they were willing to do that they wouldn't have to build the OL through the draft. The Cowboys put themselves in position year after year not just to hit on their early picks, but they need plug and play type guys. Its a horrible team building strategy, but its the reality of how Jerry/Stephen do it. Later round OL can be found but they typically need multiple years of development. The Cowboys need OL help in the worst way week 1 of this year which is why I go back to throw out positional value and just take quality players. Its more important for the Cowboys to hit on a good player early than it is to go after positional value on a player that comes with more risk. Its not ideal, but this is what Jerry has created.

well, I did mention trade down even if you don't get point for point. and end up with booker,

but how about Kenneth Grant from Michigan? I think DL and defense in general was more important than OG.
what if we picked Warren instead? with Fergi in the last year of his contract?
what about Barron, who didn't have surgery and won't start on PUP list.
What about Derrick Harmon from Oregon?

yes, would have been reaching a bit on those. but we reached for booker anyway.

any of those and then you take a guard in the 2nd or 3rd round. still could have traded down in the 2nd and take Ratledge in the 2nd.
I really like Alexander the DT from Toledo and would have traded down to bottom of 2nd and take him.


we could have taken and reached for so many others than Booker that would have more impact...

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

You’ve got to get your QB before you focus on anything else.

And by get your QB I mean one that is skilled and talented, not paid well.

none of the QBs in this year's draft were graded any good. Dart may have been the best one of the LOT and he reminds me of Lawrence who sucks.

plus we traded for a developmental QB already in Milton who at least can get the ball down field more than 10 yards.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

do you

The problem isnt three O-Liners being first round picks. Its that we suck at Free Agency. You could focus drafting O-Line in the first when you are active in Free Agency to fill other holes. Cowboys arent though. Cowboys only focus on the Draft and thats just not enough to improve to contend.

Jerry: do you know how much FAs cost? do you understand dead cap? do you know how much I would have to pay for the lot of jerseys when I sign them and then I am left with unused inventory.....do you know I have to pay for coaches dead money? do you know how much it cost to ride in a helicopter?

 

[thunderpimp91]

well, I did mention trade down even if you don't get point for point. and end up with booker,

but how about Kenneth Grant from Michigan? I think DL and defense in general was more important than OG.
what if we picked Warren instead? with Fergi in the last year of his contract?
what about Barron, who didn't have surgery and won't start on PUP list.
What about Derrick Harmon from Oregon?

yes, would have been reaching a bit on those. but we reached for booker anyway.

any of those and then you take a guard in the 2nd or 3rd round. still could have traded down in the 2nd and take Ratledge in the 2nd.
I really like Alexander the DT from Toledo and would have traded down to bottom of 2nd and take him.


we could have taken and reached for so many others than Booker that would have more impact...

I would have been fully in support of a trade down which is why I really didn't mention it. The only real question is who was actually willing to move up and what would the return have been like. Even if you had moved back 10 spots and just gotten a 3rd I would have been all for it, but based on the lack of movement who knows if that was even an option?

Big fan of grant too, but again we are getting into more positions that tend to be devalued. Grant is probably a 25-35 play per game guy. Love the player, but we are likely having the same value conversation about that pick. Same with going TE as we are getting into positions that dont require round 1 picks to find above average to excellent talent.

Personally I think guard was a bigger need than most on this board do so i'm a little biased in that regard, but I don't have a huge issue with the pick....probably more of a B grade pick than an A, but any pick kinda felt like a B pick at 12. My concerns just go back to the front office not making a more serious attempt to upgrade DT, OL, or WR earlier in the offseason.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I would have been fully in support of a trade down which is why I really didn't mention it. The only real question is who was actually willing to move up and what would the return have been like. Even if you had moved back 10 spots and just gotten a 3rd I would have been all for it, but based on the lack of movement who knows if that was even an option?

Big fan of grant too, but again we are getting into more positions that tend to be devalued. Grant is probably a 25-35 play per game guy. Love the player, but we are likely having the same value conversation about that pick. Same with going TE as we are getting into positions that dont require round 1 picks to find above average to excellent talent.

Personally I think guard was a bigger need than most on this board do so i'm a little biased in that regard, but I don't have a huge issue with the pick....probably more of a B grade pick than an A, but any pick kinda felt like a B pick at 12. My concerns just go back to the front office not making a more serious attempt to upgrade DT, OL, or WR earlier in the offseason.

we can just agree to disagree. I take a 25-35 defensive player that would allow the defense to be better over all. than a guard, who can't have the same impact for us to score another 10+ points a game we need because the defense sucks. I mean this defense really sucks.

SJ did mention there was trade offer on the table from Texans, but points value didn't add up. I would have still taken it.