Switch to 4-3

[jmorton]

Am I of the minority who thinks that our personnel is actually better suited to play the 4-3? I keep reading all of these articles that say our personnel is built for the 3-4 and that the last few years of player acquistion would have been a waste if we switch now. Let's examine the front 7 of our defense...

DE
-Ware played 4-3 DE in college. He is a beast and will get 15 sacks in a 4-3. He won't be a liability in the run because of his power. He'll be like Charles Haley (teams tried to run on Haley because of his size but he was always there to make the play) or Jason Taylor.

-Greg Ellis returns to a position he has played his entire career. Sure he's coming off an injury, but I think he'd get his 6-8 sacks playing opposite of Ware on the line.

-Hatcher/Canty/Coleman add to a nice DE rotation. Sure Canty played in a 3-4 in college, but it's not like he's blown up the NFL these past two years, eh?

DT
-Ferguson has played the two-gap DT in the 4-3 before and said he prefers it. He had a great season last year in the 3-4 but he'll be just as good in the 4-3 and probably will get 3-4 sacks in this scheme.

-The other one-gap DT in the 4-3 would be an area of concern. Ratliff looked pretty good last year as a nickel DT so I'm thinking he could man this position. And Spears might be a viable player here (he certainly couldn't do any worse than he has as DE). We may need to add a player here.

LB
-Along with Roy, Bradie James took a lot of criticism for the way the season ended. However, I would have to believe that he could be just as effective (if not more) in a 4-3 as the sole middle linebacker.

-Ayodele comes from a 4-3. Took him about half a season to get comfortable with the 3-4.

-Carpenter comes from 4-3 in college. Started to look like a player at the end of last year. No doubt in my mind that he will be much better in the 4-3.

-Do any of the above players (plus back-ups Burnett, Singleton, and Fowler) have exceptional pass rushing skills? To me, these LBs are better suited for the 4-3. Without better pass rushing LBs, you can't run all those exotic zone blitz schemes that are so successful for other 3-4 teams. I think we're much better off for the 4-3 in terms of our linebacking core.

Coaching
-Many more defensive coordinators know the 4-3. We shouldn't be handicapped from acquiring an up and coming creative DC (e.g., Rivera) because we want to stay in the 3-4.

So that's it. Perhaps add a DT and we're ready to go (at least for the front 7 -- addressing the safety issue has been discussed thoroughly in other threads).

Your thoughts?

 

[Wrangler87]

Most players, Coaches, and NFL personnel people that I have heard interviewed on Sirius NFL in the last week have said that it would be a very easy transition back to the 4-3, contrary to reports from many mediots.

 

[zrinkill]

Thats because the main difference between the 2 are that you need more athletic LB's to play the 3-4 and bigger linemen ......

But athletic LB's work just as well in the 4-3 ..... and we never really got any oversized linemen .......

 

[Canadian BoyzFan]

You mean Ware won't have to cover WR's. I'm in!!!

 

[adamc91115]

james struggled badly in the 4-3, it was with the switch to the 3-4 that he became more noticed.

 

[CF74]

DT

We may need to add a player here.

 

[malbis030347]

nice analysis...never thought of it that way... we may be on to soemthing here and Jerry knows it too, so Rivera would not be a risk from 4/3 background should he be the 'chosen one'

 

[Wrangler87]

It's simple in my opinion, it's easier for us to fix a few players, than it would be to find a coach of Rivera's percieved ability.

 

[Yeagermeister]

The problem with the 3-4 wasn't the players it was the scheme.

 

[dannyboy]

I totally agree with moving back to the 4-3. Also, both Spears and Canty can play either DT or DE and we can put Ware back to LB at times(Hatcher at DE), giving the look of a 3-4 to confuse the offense. Quite a bit of options with the people we have. All we need is another DT(mentioned) and decided what to do with Henry(CB or FS). Imagine if we could bring in Clemens(CB)! Easily a top 5 defense

 

[silverbear]

Am I of the minority who thinks that our personnel is actually better suited to play the 4-3? I keep reading all of these articles that say our personnel is built for the 3-4 and that the last few years of player acquistion would have been a waste if we switch now. Let's examine the front 7 of our defense...

DE
-Ware played 4-3 DE in college. He is a beast and will get 15 sacks in a 4-3. He won't be a liability in the run because of his power. He'll be like Charles Haley (teams tried to run on Haley because of his size but he was always there to make the play) or Jason Taylor.

-Greg Ellis returns to a position he has played his entire career. Sure he's coming off an injury, but I think he'd get his 6-8 sacks playing opposite of Ware on the line.

Greg will be 32 shortly after training camp starts, and is coming off a very, very serious injury for a pro football player... there is no guarantee he'll ever make it back (though of course I hope he does)...

-Hatcher/Canty/Coleman add to a nice DE rotation.

Canty cannot play DE in a 4-3... if the Boys went that direction, he'd have to move to DT permanently, and I'm not sure he's not too tall for that position...

I also wonder if Hatcher has the requisite speed to play DE in the 4-3, but wouldn't rule out the possibility altogether... but a worst case scenario is that the Boys would have exactly three players suited for 4-3 DE, in Ware, Coleman and Junior Glymph (who is of course a completely unproven commodity at this point)...

DT
-Ferguson has played the two-gap DT in the 4-3 before and said he prefers it. He had a great season last year in the 3-4 but he'll be just as good in the 4-3 and probably will get 3-4 sacks in this scheme.

-The other one-gap DT in the 4-3 would be an area of concern. Ratliff looked pretty good last year as a nickel DT so I'm thinking he could man this position. And Spears might be a viable player here (he certainly couldn't do any worse than he has as DE). We may need to add a player here.

I think Spears, like Canty, would be rather bad at DT... Ferguson and Ratliff, sure, and I could see Hatcher moving inside on passing downs... but 3 DTs ain't gonna be enough...

So, not only do we have just six defensive lineman that I think would be well-suited to such a switch, we would have wasted a first round pick on Spears...

I have no real issues with your take on the linebacking, I think we could find enough players currently on the roster to do a good job in the 4-3...

 

[Cowboy Bill Watts]

Most players, Coaches, and NFL personnel people that I have heard interviewed on Sirius NFL in the last week have said that it would be a very easy transition back to the 4-3, contrary to reports from many mediots.

i agree. just make sure your #s are right, i.e. number of lineme on final roster vs linebackers.

i really don't see what the big deal is.

 

[austintodallas]

Canty cannot play DE in a 4-3... if the Boys went that direction, he'd have to move to DT permanently, and I'm not sure he's not too tall for that position...

Too Tall wasn't too tall for that position.

 

[silverbear]

Thats because the main difference between the 2 are that you need more athletic LB's to play the 3-4 and bigger linemen ......

But athletic LB's work just as well in the 4-3 ..... and we never really got any oversized linemen .......

Say what?? On a man for man average, I have to think the Cowboys' defensive line last year would have been just about the biggest in the league... Canty, Spears, Hatcher, Ratliff, Ferguson, Stanley, Bowen, all of them 300 pounds or REAL close to it... Coleman wasn't too far from that weight, either...

In fact, those 8 defensive linemen last year averaged 6-4 and a half, 299 pounds... and that's pretty big where I come from...

 

[silverbear]

Too Tall wasn't too tall for that position.

Uhhh, Too Tall was a DE...

 

[dmoore]

I don't want to move back to the 4-3. It seems to me that our defense has basically all the components to run the 3-4, but if we moved to the 4-3 we'd have to spend another draft on getting players to run the scheme. I think it puts us back a year in the development of our defense. Also, Ware would more than likely be a great DE, but why move him? He's one of the preimer rush LBs in the league, why force him to learn another position? And don't say he played it in college. It wouldn't be a seemless transition, it'd take a while for him to get accustomed to DE.

 

[Spectre]

Thats because the main difference between the 2 are that you need more athletic LB's to play the 3-4 and bigger linemen ......

But athletic LB's work just as well in the 4-3 ..... and we never really got any oversized linemen .......

That's not exactly true.

The 3-4 requires larger LBers to go head to head against Linemen.
The 4-3 is more suitable for "athletic" LBers.

 

[burmafrd]

Ware is a top OLB in the 3-4; would he be as a 4-3 DE? Freeny is a liability against the run and he is actually heavier then Ware. So you have to leave ware as an OLB; that really leaves us with Hatcher as the only 4-3 DE; SPears and Canty I think are not quick enough to be top 4-3 DE's.

 

[Cowboy4ever]

I really think some of you are over thinking this a bit. There is not much difference in the two schemes at all and if we had a creative minded coach, we could run both fairly effectively.

Say what you want about spears,, but he was an All American at LSU, playing DE in a 4-3.

Ware, I think we could line him up anywhere on D and he would successful, just a great athelte.

Canty, I know he came from the 3-4, but I can see him as a DE in a 4-3,, talk about being able to close down some throwing lanes,, just like too tall did

Fergy, good in either system

Ratliff,, great motor and could play DT, but needs to rotate,, can't play every down.

Hatcher- passing rushing element opposite ware in the 4-3

Ellis- if he is to come back and be effective, it will be as a DE, not an OLB. His injury will limit how he can move in space. So if we stay in the 3-4, I dont think we keep him.

I also liked what I saw out of Bowman at the end of the year, he could be in the mix for a Rotation spot with Ratliff.

I do believe we would need to draft a DT if we switch to provide depth and develop.

As far as LB'ers go,, I think we would be ok. James scares me some at MLB, But I think that could be taken care in the Draft. The others I think we are set with Carp Akin and Burnett, and even Ware if we need it.

I really don't think that switching or staying is a big concern with the personal we have on this team. I would like to see a Coach come in and use all schemes, mix and match and really be creative.

 

[wileedog]

Canty cannot play DE in a 4-3... if the Boys went that direction, he'd have to move to DT permanently, and I'm not sure he's not too tall for that position...

I also wonder if Hatcher has the requisite speed to play DE in the 4-3, but wouldn't rule out the possibility altogether... but a worst case scenario is that the Boys would have exactly three players suited for 4-3 DE, in Ware, Coleman and Junior Glymph (who is of course a completely unproven commodity at this point)...



I think Spears, like Canty, would be rather bad at DT... Ferguson and Ratliff, sure, and I could see Hatcher moving inside on passing downs... but 3 DTs ain't gonna be enough...

So, not only do we have just six defensive lineman that I think would be well-suited to such a switch, we would have wasted a first round pick on Spears...

I have no real issues with your take on the linebacking, I think we could find enough players currently on the roster to do a good job in the 4-3...

Agree all the way around. I don't think Canty or Spears are well suited for the 4-3, despite Spears playing it in college. They would be fine against the run, but neither will ever be an effective edge rusher at this level.

Canty was also supposedly having leverage problems at DE, which will only get worse if he moves inside. He's simply not cut out for the 4-3.

Hatcher might be decent, I think he has a good burst. Fergie and Ratlif I think would actually be a superior inside combo, although Ratlif has to prove he can be an every down player, and we have little to nothing behind them unless we move Spears, who might be serviceable there but probably not outstanding.

I think the LBs for the most part are good enough to excell in the 4-3, but James might need replacing in whichever scheme we use. He would be particularly horrible in Rivera's Cover 2 though.