Syracuse Asst. Basketball Coach Bernie Fine Fired Amid Allegations *Updated*

[Stautner]

Unfortunately, what ESPN did...which was not investigate Lang's claims (the step-brother of the accuser) may wind up harming the good that the PSU scandal did by getting people to come forward. If Fine is found clearly innocent, now the public starts to think that there are people looking to make a buck and now true victims may be afraid to come over because of the perception that they are making a buck.

Either way, ESPN showed little in the way of ethics on how they handled it. I don't think Mark Schwartz would like it if somebody accused him of rape and somebody at ******** ran with the story saying he's being accused of rape without any investigation, first.

I'm sure that ESPN will hide behind a 'Fine is a public figure' or 'we just reported the accusation' defense. I'm sure their ombudsmen will come out and criticize Schwartz, of course...nobody will care.

Business as usual at Bristol.








YR

Suggesting ESPN shouldn't report a criminal complaint before doing their own investigation is like saying your local newspaper shouldn't report a drug bust before it does its own investigation.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Suggesting ESPN shouldn't report a criminal complaint before doing their own investigation is like saying your local newspaper shouldn't report a drug bust before it does its own investigation.

Then why didn't they do the report back in 2003 when Davis originally came to them?

And a 'drug bust' is something that law enforcement is actually involved with. The authorities are supposedly 'trustworthy' and so the evidence is that the authorities did indeed do the drug bust. So your analogy is tragically flawed.

Do you realize that 4 different entities investigated this from 2002-2005? The Post STandard, the Syracuse police, the University (independent law firm did the investigation) AND ESPN themselves

Davis claimed that he had people that would corroborate his story and EACH entity that investigated it, found that NONE of those people would corroborate the story?

I think they at least owed Fine that much.







YR

 

[Stautner]

Then why didn't they do the report back in 2003 when Davis originally came to them?

And a 'drug bust' is something that law enforcement is actually involved with. The authorities are supposedly 'trustworthy' and so the evidence is that the authorities did indeed do the drug bust. So your analogy is tragically flawed.

Do you realize that 4 different entities investigated this from 2002-2005? The Post STandard, the Syracuse police, the University (independent law firm did the investigation) AND ESPN themselves

Davis claimed that he had people that would corroborate his story and EACH entity that investigated it, found that NONE of those people would corroborate the story?

I think they at least owed Fine that much.

YR

Yes, law enforcement would be involved with a drug bust, and law enforcement is actually involved with the Syracuse situation now. That's the difference between now and 2003.

In 2003 ESPN decided that unless it could get some independent corroberation that a crime occurred they would allow a matter that was being investigated internally within the university to remain private. Now the investigation is a public matter involving the police, and a story that every news agency would be aware of.

Again, look at the example of a newspaper. If they suspect there is some criminal activity going on somewhere and they investigate it, but find no evidence of it, they aren't going to report it. But if later the police get involved and make it known they are investigating, the newspaper will report that.

 

[joseephuss]

Then why didn't they do the report back in 2003 when Davis originally came to them?

And a 'drug bust' is something that law enforcement is actually involved with. The authorities are supposedly 'trustworthy' and so the evidence is that the authorities did indeed do the drug bust. So your analogy is tragically flawed.

Do you realize that 4 different entities investigated this from 2002-2005? The Post STandard, the Syracuse police, the University (independent law firm did the investigation) AND ESPN themselves

Davis claimed that he had people that would corroborate his story and EACH entity that investigated it, found that NONE of those people would corroborate the story?

I think they at least owed Fine that much.







YR

Isn't that the difference now? His step brother has come forward and is corroborating his story. That didn't happen in 2003.

 

[Rogah]

I have to admit, it sounds like this guy is full of it. EVERYONE at Syracuse is jumping to his defense and none of the people the supposed victim listed are willing to corroborate his story. This is nothing like the Penn State thing.

The thing that makes me question the story the most, other than the fact that the only other accuser happens to be a relative, is the fact that the alleged assault took place over a period of 16 years, continuing until the alleged victim was 27 years old.

I understand a 10 year old is often frightened, helpless and powerless against an adult predator. But when you're 27? Whuh huh?

 

[Stautner]

The thing that makes me question the story the most, other than the fact that the only other accuser happens to be a relative, is the fact that the alleged assault took place over a period of 16 years, continuing until the alleged victim was 27 years old.

I understand a 10 year old is often frightened, helpless and powerless against an adult predator. But when you're 27? Whuh huh?

Kinda makes you scratch your head, doesn't it?

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Isn't that the difference now? His step brother has come forward and is corroborating his story. That didn't happen in 2003.

That's the difference.

But, it still doesn't excuse ESPN not getting some type of evidence or proof that it is true.

Stautner's analogy is poor because in the case of a drug raid, the evidence is in the authorities making a drug bust and accusing those in the drug bust. Now, if somebody accused the police of an illegal drug bust...the reporter cannot *ethically* just claim that there's an illegal drug bust. They need to gather some type of evidence as to why and how it was illegal. Whether it be from Internal Affairs, eye witness accounts not involved with either parties, etc.

The authorities are nowhere near as involved in this case as they would be in a drug bust. The authorities have stated that they looked into the matter and that Davis' claims were false. Now, they have to re-open the case because Davis' step brother is claiming the same thing. But, ALL they have done is re-open the investigation. They still have no proof that it occurred or may have occured or anything to connect the dots. THAT is what ESPN should have done before going forth with the report.

What is bad is that many here, who have never been involved in the media or taken a journalism class can see the dangers of reporting an accusation of this magnitude without any proof, evidence or witnesses. It can devestate Fine's career and life, along with the life of his family and loved ones. Furthermore, if Fine is found innocent, it may persuade real victims of other molestation crimes to NOT come forward since they'll fear that people will think they are coming forward to make money.

Essentially, when ESPN investigated this back in *2003*, they found that Davis' list of people who would corroborate his story to be false. Nobody corroborated it. The same happened with the Post Standard (who Davis went to first and before ESPN), the police and the University (whom Davis went to after telling ESPN).

For better or for worse, back in 2003 you could probalby look at it as Davis being deceitful and Fine *being the victim* of a false accusation of a serious crime.

Yet, in 2011...ESPN chose to take the word of a person that appeared deceitful in '03 over a person who appeared to be honest and the victim of a horrible false accusation.

Bernie Fine deserved better than what ESPN just pulled on him.







YR

 

[Yakuza Rich]

The thing that makes me question the story the most, other than the fact that the only other accuser happens to be a relative, is the fact that the alleged assault took place over a period of 16 years, continuing until the alleged victim was 27 years old.

I understand a 10 year old is often frightened, helpless and powerless against an adult predator. But when you're 27? Whuh huh?

Here's where I believe that there is a bit of a crack in Davis' accusation.

He claims he was being molested until 27. He's 39 years old in the year 2011. So, he was 27 years old in 1999.

Davis claims he went to the police and they said that the statute of limitations ran out. This was in 2003.

NY State law says that the statute is good for 5 years after the LAST time of sexual contact.

So, the statute didn't run out.

I am sure he will claim that is what the police told him and then try and conclude that they lied to protect Fine. But, the guy has been caught in various lies already and this is just another that doesn't add up and I'm going to believe the police, the Post Standard, unfortunately ESPN and the University over him.








YR

 

[StanleySpadowski]

ESPN did not contact the police in 2003 with this because they felt they could not go to the police with second hand information.

Sixteen different ESPN talking heads called for Joe Paterno to be fired, before they eventually got their wish, because he didn't contact the police even though he only had second hand information.

Wonder when we hear of the mass terminations of multiple ESPN employees?

 

[Yakuza Rich]

ESPN did not contact the police in 2003 with this because they felt they could not go to the police with second hand information.

Sixteen different ESPN talking heads called for Joe Paterno to be fired, before they eventually got their wish, because he didn't contact the police even though he only had second hand information.

Wonder when we hear of the mass terminations of multiple ESPN employees?

That would be fine by me.

But, there's still a difference...unfortunately.

Davis is the accuser who went to ESPN.

McQueary was a *witness* who went to Paterno.

Davis had no proof or evidence or a witness. McQueary was the witness.

But, it just proves my point that ESPN are irresponsible scumbags.







YR

 

[Rogah]

Here's where I believe that there is a bit of a crack in Davis' accusation.

He claims he was being molested until 27. He's 39 years old in the year 2011. So, he was 27 years old in 1999.

Davis claims he went to the police and they said that the statute of limitations ran out. This was in 2003.

NY State law says that the statute is good for 5 years after the LAST time of sexual contact.

So, the statute didn't run out.

I am sure he will claim that is what the police told him and then try and conclude that they lied to protect Fine. But, the guy has been caught in various lies already and this is just another that doesn't add up and I'm going to believe the police, the Post Standard, unfortunately ESPN and the University over him.

I'm not sure, but I think if the police told him that, they were correct. The statute of limitation is 5 years from the date of the last sexual contact while he was still a minor. So once he turned 23, that was 5 years from the last possible alleged account of contact with a minor.

I don't even know what it means to molest an adult, in this case a 27 year old. I mean, there's outright forcible rape. There's date rape drugs or sexually molesting someone while they are unconscious or otherwise impaired. And it would be illegal to molest, for example, a mentally disabled adult. But if those are ruled out, if something like that was happening on a regular basis between two adults (not that I actually believe it was in this case because I think Davis is 100% full of crap) my first reaction is "consensual".

 

[StanleySpadowski]

That would be fine by me.

But, there's still a difference...unfortunately.

Davis is the accuser who went to ESPN.

McQueary was a *witness* who went to Paterno.

Davis had no proof or evidence or a witness. McQueary was the witness.

But, it just proves my point that ESPN are irresponsible scumbags.







YR

Wouldn't that make ESPN even more culpable than Joe Paterno? Much easier to prosecute with an alleged victim and no witness than and alleged witness and no victim.

This isn't going to get the same media driven frenzy since half of Bristol is Syracuse grads but the hypocrisy here knows no bounds.

 

[Rogah]

Wouldn't that make ESPN even more culpable than Joe Paterno? Much easier to prosecute with an alleged victim and no witness than and alleged witness and no victim.

This isn't going to get the same media driven frenzy since half of Bristol is Syracuse grads but the hypocrisy here knows no bounds.

Davis, the alleged victim, was a 30-something year old adult when he first went to ESPN with the story. I'm normally the last person to defend ESPN but in this case, it isn't their responsibility to turn around and report an unfounded allegation made by an adult to the police. Furthermore, it's unclear whether Davis went to the police before or after going to ESPN, but my interpretation of events was the police had already been notified by the time he went to ESPN.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Wouldn't that make ESPN even more culpable than Joe Paterno? Much easier to prosecute with an alleged victim and no witness than and alleged witness and no victim.

This isn't going to get the same media driven frenzy since half of Bristol is Syracuse grads but the hypocrisy here knows no bounds.

No.

If the victim is the only person coming forward, it's a case of he said (Davis) vs. He said (Fine).

With McQueary, he's an 'independent' witness to a crime.

Yes...there are lots of SU grads in the sports media and Bristol. But, this shouldn't get the media frenzy right now because:

1. It's been investigate *4* times by *4* different entities.

2. There's no coverup between SU and Boeheim as there is between PSU and Paterno.

3. The school and Boeheim virtually did everything one could ask for. They hired an independent law firm to investigate *after* the Post-Standard, ESPN and the Syracuse police did their investigations and found nothing.

4. So far the story looks not very credible for the accuser.

5. This should have been investigated first to get *some* proof, evidence or witness before reporting it. This goes against the 'bias' that is supposedly down in Bristol.







YR

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Davis, the alleged victim, was a 30-something year old adult when he first went to ESPN with the story. I'm normally the last person to defend ESPN but in this case, it isn't their responsibility to turn around and report an unfounded allegation made by an adult to the police. Furthermore, it's unclear whether Davis went to the police before or after going to ESPN, but my interpretation of events was the police had already been notified by the time he went to ESPN.

The timeline is this.

1. Davis went to the Syracuse Post-Standard, the city's newspaper (no affiliation with the university)

2. Post-Standards investigate that his list of people that would corroborate his story and nobody corroborated it. They told Davis they would not print the story.

3. Davis then went to ESPN. Got the same result as he did from the Post-Standard.

4. Davis went to the cops (same result)

5. Davis went to the university, the university had an independent law firm investigate.










3JACK

 

[Rogah]

The timeline is this.

1. Davis went to the Syracuse Post-Standard, the city's newspaper (no affiliation with the university)

2. Post-Standards investigate that his list of people that would corroborate his story and nobody corroborated it. They told Davis they would not print the story.

3. Davis then went to ESPN. Got the same result as he did from the Post-Standard.

4. Davis went to the cops (same result)

5. Davis went to the university, the university had an independent law firm investigate.

OK cool, thanks for clearing that up. Sounds to me like a whole bunch of people think he had absoultely nothing to support his claim and that he is only coming out now (again) because he knew it would garner a lot fo extra attention following the Penn State situation.

 

[joseephuss]

This could really change how things are viewed in the Bernie Fine allegations.

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_...sistant-bernie-fine-wife-admits-worries-abuse

Bernie Fine's wife had abuse concerns

In a tape-recorded 2002 telephone conversation, the wife of Syracuse associate head coach Bernie Fine admitted she had concerns that her husband had sexually molested a team ball boy in their home, but said she felt powerless to stop the alleged abuse.

Bobby Davis, who has publicly accused Bernie Fine of years of molestation that Davis said started when he was in the seventh grade, legally recorded his Oct. 8, 2002, phone call to Laurie Fine.

"I know everything that went on, you know," Laurie Fine said on the call, obtained by Outside the Lines from Davis. "I know everything that went on with him ... Bernie has issues, maybe that he's not aware of, but he has issues ... And you trusted somebody you shouldn't have trusted ... "

She continued: "Bernie is also in denial. I think that he did the things he did, but he's somehow through his own mental telepathy has erased them out of his mind."

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Here's what ESPN reported.

"In a brief interview Feb. 3, 2003, Laurie Fine acknowledged she had the conversation with Davis, confirmed portions of the tape were accurate, but suggested Davis had created a phony tape."

ESPN had this interview in 2003, why did they do *nothing* with this case?

What we need to know is when did Davis live in the Fine's basement?

The big reason is that if you read the transcript to the tape...it alludes more to Fine wanting to have sex with Davis when he was an adult. And he would hold giving Davis a place to stay and money loaned to him over his head.

Laurie Fine seems oddly non-plussed over the interaction. I would *assume* she knows the difference between Fine wanting gay sex with an adult versus molesting a young boy. But, her tone also alludes to Fine wanting gay sex with an adult.

But, maybe she's just as dillusional as Fine.

Still, the police needs to figure out what it was because we can't have somebody accusing a person of sexual molestation of a minor when in reality they were forcing themselves on an adult.

The 3rd accuser is a person that seems to have confessed because he is being accused of molesting a 14-year old boy himself. His own father says that he's a liar and is lying about everything in the accusation and that none of it happened.

Still, even if Davis was not molested *underage*, I find Fine's behavior of forcing himself on a person and holding a place to stay and money lent over his head for sex to be reprehensible. And I would be for Fine's firing.









YR

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Bernie Fine has been fired.

Obviously, the conversation taped between Fine's wife and Davis was the straw that broke the camel's back.

Unfortunately, the public wants and needs answers immediately, but it will probably take awhile for the authorities to get everything together and come to their conclusions.

I'm a little discouraged by the Syracuse PD. Having lived in several big cities in my life, I've found the Syracuse PD to be the best. However, it doesn't look like they handled this properly. But, if the evidence they got from Davis pointed out to him being of age when Fine made sexual advances at him...then that's maybe why they dropped it.

We still need to know what everybody knew. I had heard rumors...WELL before this happened that Fine was a homosexual. But, considering that he was married I just didn't think twice about them...kinda like the Aikman is gay rumors.

I'm still open minded about the case in general because I don't think the Post Standard, ESPN, the University and the police would have all covered this up. But, I do find if Fine housed Davis and made sexual advancements that could be considered sexual assault and at the very least, a despicable thing to do. But, we need to know what exactly happened, what the police knew back in '03 along with the Post Standard, ESPN and the University (including Boeheim).







YR

 

[casmith07]

Story on CNN: http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/27/justice/syracuse-coach-allegations/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Bernie Fine has been fired.

Obviously, the conversation taped between Fine's wife and Davis was the straw that broke the camel's back.

Unfortunately, the public wants and needs answers immediately, but it will probably take awhile for the authorities to get everything together and come to their conclusions.

I'm a little discouraged by the Syracuse PD. Having lived in several big cities in my life, I've found the Syracuse PD to be the best. However, it doesn't look like they handled this properly. But, if the evidence they got from Davis pointed out to him being of age when Fine made sexual advances at him...then that's maybe why they dropped it.

We still need to know what everybody knew. I had heard rumors...WELL before this happened that Fine was a homosexual. But, considering that he was married I just didn't think twice about them...kinda like the Aikman is gay rumors.

I'm still open minded about the case in general because I don't think the Post Standard, ESPN, the University and the police would have all covered this up. But, I do find if Fine housed Davis and made sexual advancements that could be considered sexual assault and at the very least, a despicable thing to do. But, we need to know what exactly happened, what the police knew back in '03 along with the Post Standard, ESPN and the University (including Boeheim).







YR