Syracuse Asst. Basketball Coach Bernie Fine Fired Amid Allegations *Updated*

[Yakuza Rich]

After reading this, I think ESPN should hope that Fine did not molest Davis. This stuff made me want to vomit:

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index....user_bobby_davis_stunned_audio_tape_edit.html

"When we had the audio in the past we had never been able to confirm that it was Laurie Fine," ESPN Senior Vice President & Director of News Vince Doria explains. "Part of it was we had no independent video of her and her voice – something we could look at and say, 'Yes, that’s her and yes, that appears to be her voice.' This time around when we re-engaged on the story we did in fact have a video we found online of her serving a meal to Bernie and a number of young men who may or may not have been Syracuse players. In this video you could clearly hear her. This allowed us to submit the audio to a voice recognition expert, which we did last week."

This is nonsense. First, I believe they could have gotten her voice if they made a feeble attempt at it. Laurie and Bernie Fine were known to go to charitable events. I don't believe that they just so happened to find Laurie Fine speaking just now. I think within EIGHT YEARS they could have gotten her voice somewhere.

Schwarz also explained on CNN why they never shared the audio tape with the authorities. "Journalists are not necessarily required or expected to hand over evidence that they did not obtain or create themselves to the police," he told Cooper.

Then you are no better that what YOU have slammed Joe Paterno for. You did NO more than the *bare minimum* of legally protecting yourself. YOU admitted so yourself.

Have fun in hell.







YR

 

[JBond]

The call is damning. Why did Boeheim feel the need to spout off? He is an arrogant *****. Always has been. His words/actions deter other victims. That alone should result in a temporary suspension. His wife let loose on the phone call. I do not believe the coach was honest tonight. He was busy splitting hairs. Duck and cover. Something is not right

 

[Yakuza Rich]

The call is damning. Why did Boeheim feel the need to spout off? He is an arrogant *****. Always has been. His words/actions deter other victims. That alone should result in a temporary suspension. His wife let loose on the phone call. I do not believe the coach was honest tonight. He was busy splitting hairs. Duck and cover. Something is not right

You're way off.

Boeheim's original statement came after FOUR different entities investigate the matter back in '02 thru '05 and came away with *nothing*. Davis told them of people who would corroborate his story and when each entity interviewed these people...none of them corroborated the story.

Furthermore, Davis gave the tape of the conversation back in *2002* to ESPN and the Post-Standard. He never gave the tape to the police (until just now) or the University.

Other than that, none of the 4 entities had any evidence or proof that Davis' allegations were true.


So, you mean to tell me that if you had a close friend for 50 years who was being accused of molestation by the same person that 4 investigations came away with nothing...you would just say nothing in defense of your friend?

I don't think you would have many friends if that was the case.

I think it's a lot of Monday Morning Quarterbacking going on.

I could possibly reason if only 1 investigation was done and came away with nothing and see Boeheim's words jumping the gun a bit. But FOUR investigations? How many investigations should have been done before he defended his friend? 10? 50?

And let's not forget that Boeheim also originally stated that if he had evidence that showed Fine did it...he would not believe Fine. But, since it had been investigated FOUR times and there was no evidence, he was going to believe his friend. And Boeheim has been contrite afterwards.

Of course, this could have been prevented had ESPN turned the tape over to the police back in 2003 when they had it. And you want to talk about arrogance...I think it's far more arrogant for ESPN to say that it's not their duty to turn in crucial evidence to police than it is for Boeheim to back up his friend that was investigate FOUR times (once by ESPN) and they came away with nothing.

I find it incredible that the victim's groups have failed to take ESPN to task for not helping the police out with a crucial piece of evidence. They are Joe Paterno in this situation.










YR

 

[JBond]

You're way off.

Boeheim's original statement came after FOUR different entities investigate the matter back in '02 thru '05 and came away with *nothing*. Davis told them of people who would corroborate his story and when each entity interviewed these people...none of them corroborated the story.

Furthermore, Davis gave the tape of the conversation back in *2002* to ESPN and the Post-Standard. He never gave the tape to the police (until just now) or the University.

Other than that, none of the 4 entities had any evidence or proof that Davis' allegations were true.


So, you mean to tell me that if you had a close friend for 50 years who was being accused of molestation by the same person that 4 investigations came away with nothing...you would just say nothing in defense of your friend?

I don't think you would have many friends if that was the case.

I think it's a lot of Monday Morning Quarterbacking going on.

I could possibly reason if only 1 investigation was done and came away with nothing and see Boeheim's words jumping the gun a bit. But FOUR investigations? How many investigations should have been done before he defended his friend? 10? 50?

And let's not forget that Boeheim also originally stated that if he had evidence that showed Fine did it...he would not believe Fine. But, since it had been investigated FOUR times and there was no evidence, he was going to believe his friend. And Boeheim has been contrite afterwards.

Of course, this could have been prevented had ESPN turned the tape over to the police back in 2003 when they had it. And you want to talk about arrogance...I think it's far more arrogant for ESPN to say that it's not their duty to turn in crucial evidence to police than it is for Boeheim to back up his friend that was investigate FOUR times (once by ESPN) and they came away with nothing.

I find it incredible that the victim's groups have failed to take ESPN to task for not helping the police out with a crucial piece of evidence. They are Joe Paterno in this situation.










YR

Boeheim is an arrogant ***. Always has been. Good basketball coach though. His statement was unnecessary. It could deter other victims. If there are real victims, they may be more reluctant to come forward because of his actions.

With that being said, I do not think this is in anyway similar to the Penn Sate tragedy. What I have a serious issue with is the lack of reporting by adults involved in both instances. You must always report issues of alleged child abuse to the proper authorities. A coach or a sports network, it does not matter. You do the right thing, especially when kids are/were involved.

Fine appears to have some issues which his wife collaborated. How dark and deep those issues are, we do not know yet. At least it was not a wide spread cover up like Penn State.

 

[joseephuss]

I thought Boeheim's initial response was dumb. There is a difference in standing up for your friend and spouting off against the accusers. He could have done without calling them liars and saying they were just in it for the money.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

He could have done without calling them liars and saying they were just in it for the money.

Isn't that the same thing?








YR

 

[joseephuss]

Isn't that the same thing?








YR

No, it is not. Maybe it is semantics, but I think there is a difference between statements like "I believe my friend" and "these guys are liars". You can defend your friend without ever directing comments at the accusers. Unless you are 100% certain they are indeed liars, but how can you be that certain in a situation like that. I thought Boeheim put himself in a bad spot with his initial comments and now he has to back pedal out of them.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Fine appears to have some issues which his wife collaborated. How dark and deep those issues are, we do not know yet. At least it was not a wide spread cover up like Penn State.

Boeheim is not arrogant. I've known the man for awhile now. In fact, right before this happened I believe Jay Bilas was saying how Boeheim 'takes his job seriously, but doesn't take himself seriously.'

I think that's a perfect way to describe him as his humor is by and large self depricating. For every time he has taken the media to task like in the Gerry McNamara incident, there are hundreds of times where he makes self depricating remarks in press conferences.

Anyway, he had *every* reason to believe that Davis and Lang were lying. In fact, Davis claimed that Boeheim saw him in Fine's room which Boeheim denies. Let's say that Davis' account of that was inaccurate. Doesn't that come off as a lie?

And like I said, ALL of this could have been prevented had ESPN given the tape to the police back in 2003.

As far as the tape goes, I think Laurie Fine was alluding to Bernie making advances on Davis when he was of legal age (17 in NY). I can't quite imagine any woman who is a mother discussing with a man who was molested underage so casually that her husband 'has issues' and 'needs that male companionship that I can't provide him.'

Maybe I'm wrong on that. But, it would make a lot more sense.

As far as the police go, if you read their statement it's obvious that they really could have used that tape. The problem they had was that Davis was in Utah when he was calling them about this. The statute had expired, but...they still asked if Davis knew of others that had been molested and he gave them a few names and none of them corroborated.

Then they told Davis that if he wanted to take this further, they would need for him to come in for a face-to-face because they really have nothing on Fine. Which they would have had if they were given the tape.

But, this makes me wonder why Davis didn't give the PD the tape. So it makes me wonder if it was doctored.

Davis claims he didn't give the tape because he was told the statute ran out. I don't know...I would think that if I was coming forward about being molested and the police wanted any evidence I could give them...I would give them the tape.

I don't think Davis is dumb for not doing so if it's legit. But, I think that somebody at ESPN should have asked 'why hasn't this been given to the proper authorities?'








YR

 

[Stautner]

The call is damning. Why did Boeheim feel the need to spout off? He is an arrogant *****. Always has been. His words/actions deter other victims. That alone should result in a temporary suspension. His wife let loose on the phone call. I do not believe the coach was honest tonight. He was busy splitting hairs. Duck and cover. Something is not right

Boeheim "spouted off" based on what he believed to be true about a longtime close friend. I don't know how anyone can fault a man for strongly standing up for someone they care about when he believes the man is being wrongfully harmed.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Boeheim "spouted off" based on what he believed to be true about a longtime close friend. I don't know how anyone can fault a man for strongly standing up for someone they care about when he believes the man is being wrongfully harmed.

That and he had 4 different investigations backing him up.

This is a big reason why nobody believes Paterno. Paterno has stated that he had never asked Sandusky about the McQueary allegation...which is hard to believe that a person who was close friends with somebody for 35 years would not at least ask about the accusation. Unless Paterno already knew about Sandusky.

I understand that there are times when people's stated opinions are worthy of them getting fired and/or criticized. But, I don't think Boeheim's opinion when this first started was that outlandish. Furthermore, he had this backed up by 4 different investigations. In particular...one done by ESPN who was now reporting this story after the Sandusky scandal.

Of course, we know that sometimes logical opinions can turn out to be wrong. When that happens, we usually expect a mea culpa...which is what Boeheim has done.

The problem here is that Davis' story is still a bit shaky. It was in 2002...so 9 years later it will only become shakier because time does not help matters.

The police made it pretty clear. While the statute ran out...they still pressed Davis for answers. The story was a bit shaky, they could not get it corroborated and he never showed up face-to-face despite the police inviting him to do so. I believe that the tape is a *major* piece of evidence the police would have used had they received it.

I can tell you that having an uncle who is a Manhattan investigator and another uncle who is a retired Syracuse PD...that tape would have been huge.

I'm willing to bet that the police are wondering why Davis didn't turn that tape over to them, but did to ESPN and they are none to happy with ESPN not turning it over either.

They would have used that tape and would have gotten Laurie Fine's voice back in 2003 instead of it magically happening in 2011 after the Sandusky case like ESPN did.

They also would have questioned Fine if he had any relations with Davis and even if the statute ran out OR had Fine denied having *legal* sexual contact with Davis...they would have used that against Fine to get him to confess (the old 'we caught you in a lie already' tactic).

These victim advocate groups and the media should be hounding ESPN over this just like they did with Penn State. And I think the feds should demand ESPN give all of their information over or subpeona them.







YR

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Then you are no better that what YOU have slammed Joe Paterno for. You did NO more than the *bare minimum* of legally protecting yourself. YOU admitted so yourself.

Have fun in hell.







YR

I disagree, unless I'm missing something, Davis had this recording back in 02'. He, an adult of around 40, did not share it with the police. So why should ESPN? I still wouldn't be suprised if there was some extortion attempt by Davis because all this just seems odd. The timing of it all, his step brother being the only other one to come foward so far and this tape that he sat on for almost 10 years.

I'm starting to believe that something went on while Davis was a child, and Fine should rot in jail for the rest of his life if he did, but the fact that this relationship continue for several years after Davis was an adult makes me think that it could be the case of Fine being involved in a homosexual relationship, Davis trying to blackmail him and Fine believing no one would believe Davis and doesn't give in.

At the very least, I believe that Davis atleast wanted to take Fine to civil court but couldn't due to how much time has passed since when he was under aged, but with everything that has happened recently he likely tried again.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

I disagree, unless I'm missing something, Davis had this recording back in 02'. He, an adult of around 40, did not share it with the police. So why should ESPN?

Sr. VP Vince Doria went on Mad Dog Russo's show yesterday and said that they found Davis' story *credible* in 2002. And that they didn't go forward with it because of the lack of proof and no corroborating witnesses.

Furthermore, he stated that they didn't report the allegation of the tape because they could not get Laurie Fine's voice to use their own expert to do a voice recognition analysis. This is something the police would have been able to do back in 2002.

We can't sit here and blame Boeheim for detering victims, but excuse ESPN for not telling the police, University or DA about the tape that would have tremendously helped Davis without contradicting ourselves.










YR

 

[Yakuza Rich]

A major piece of the 3rd Accuser (Tomaselli) story has been proven false.

http://www.nationoforange.com/content/part-third-accuser-s-story-proven-false-124/

In a related matter, the third accuser, 23-year-old Zach Tomaselli said in a sworn statement to Syracuse police that he rode the team bus from Syracuse to a game in Pittsburgh in 2002 and was molested by Fine in the team hotel when he was just 13-years old.

But the Daily News checked the schedule for that season and discovered the team did not take a bus to Pittsburgh, but instead flew to Pittsburgh after a road game in Tennessee

YR

 

[Manwiththeplan]

We can't sit here and blame Boeheim for detering victims, but excuse ESPN for not telling the police, University or DA about the tape that would have tremendously helped Davis without contradicting ourselves.










YR

I'm not balming Boeheim. Davis, an adult and alleged victim had the tape. If he didn't share it with police I don't think that's ESPN's responsibility. If Davis was some 15 kid who was in a foster home, yeah, but Davis was what, 35 or so then?

And to me, it would be irresponsibile of ESPN and to run this story when it's 1 persons word vrs another person's word. I even thought it was irresponsibile to run the story after the step brother came foward, but the tape does change my view on that.

As far as Boeheim, considering that this is the only person to come foward and they did so at the age of 35 or so, there's no reason to believe that Boeheim allowed this to go on, discouraged victims from coming foward or ect.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

A major piece of the 3rd Accuser (Tomaselli) story has been proven false.

http://www.nationoforange.com/content/part-third-accuser-s-story-proven-false-124/

I really believe Fine was a closet homosexual and was trying to keep that under wraps. If he never touched a child, but did have a history approaching former ball boys when they became adults, that's still creepy and I'd say he deserves what he's going through now.

But I wouldn't be suprised if more lies came out.

 

[JBond]

Boeheim is not arrogant. I've known the man for awhile now. In fact, right before this happened I believe Jay Bilas was saying how Boeheim 'takes his job seriously, but doesn't take himself seriously.'

I think that's a perfect way to describe him as his humor is by and large self depricating. For every time he has taken the media to task like in the Gerry McNamara incident, there are hundreds of times where he makes self depricating remarks in press conferences.

Maybe I am allowing my Seton Hall bias to creep in.

 

[JBond]

I really believe Fine was a closet homosexual and was trying to keep that under wraps. If he never touched a child, but did have a history approaching former ball boys when they became adults, that's still creepy and I'd say he deserves what he's going through now.

But I wouldn't be suprised if more lies came out.

The whole ball boy comment last night was wierd. They didn't travel as ball boys in an official capacity, but he also did not say they never traveled with young boys. Odd to say the least.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Remember that as Davis got older, he was known as the person who would babysit the children of people on the staff. So, he may have not traveled with the team as a ballboy, but when he was older as a babysitter. It still comes into question as to how old he was.

I don't think it's too far fetched to think that he may have been the babysitter than was staying in Fine's room on the road when he was 16. I know I shared a room with a neighbor of mine when I was that age on a golf trip. Of course, there were other times I did that with adults as well...but we had numerous people to a room.

We also have to remember that according to Davis...he went to the police and they told him the statute ran out and that was that. But the police tell a lot more in that they did tell him the statute ran out...but wanted to know if he knew of other kids being molested, if he could show evidence of others or if he wanted to go further that he was invited to meet them face-to-face...which Davis never did (understandably..to a degree...because he was in Utah at the time).

Davis has been telling more truth than I would had orignally thought, but his story has more quirky ends to it than what ESPN is trying to portray. Like I stated, Jason Whitlock reported that Tomaselli spoke to Davis repeatedly before every going to the police. That's never been mentioned by anybody but Whitlock.

How did Tomaselli get in contact with Davis? What did they discuss?

And now that a major chunk of Tomaselli's story has been proven false, along with his father calling him a liar and his own charges of sexual molestation...it does...to a degree...come off like Davis and Tomaselli were in cahoots all along.

Again, all of this could have been eliminated if ESPN gave the tape to the police and if ESPN would have let the police investigate first before reporting the story.









YR

 

[Yakuza Rich]

I'm not balming Boeheim. Davis, an adult and alleged victim had the tape. If he didn't share it with police I don't think that's ESPN's responsibility. If Davis was some 15 kid who was in a foster home, yeah, but Davis was what, 35 or so then?

I think they should have helped Davis out.

But, we'll agree to disagree.

HOWEVER...they could have helped Bernie Fine out had they turned this into police.

Let's say the police find, without a shadow of a doubt...that Davis doctored the tape. That would change what Fine did and how we view the case. But, we couldn't find that because the police never got the tape.

It's not ESPN's place to determine what is evidence the police could use and not use. And there's no REASON for them to not give the police the tape. Who would that hurt if they did that?








YR

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Maybe I am allowing my Seton Hall bias to creep in.

Kinda funny because Boeheim and PJ Carlesimo are best of friends and Louie Orr considers Boeheim a mentor.








YR