Tampa 2

[CATCH17]

Well said. I was really in favor of Rob Ryan, but the reality is that he has had limited success in the NFL as a defensive coordinator. Kiffin on the other hand has had limited failure in the NFL as a defensive coordinator. I think he only has a small number of years where his defense wasn't top 10 in the league.

His side of the ball was decimated with injuries and he did about as good of a job as you could do with what was out there.


If there was a bad coordinator on the team it was Garrett.

 

[Doomsday101]

His side of the ball was decimated with injuries and he did about as good of a job as you could do with what was out there.


If there was a bad coordinator on the team it was Garrett.

I somewhat agree but Ryan even in the 2011 season would run this damn 3 man rushes on 3rd and long only to give up 1st downs. I was amazed, I guess I expected something more along the lines of how his dad coached which was pinning the ears back and getting after the QB not sitting back with a 3 man rush.

I know you don't like Garrett but Ryan has some blame in this as well.

 

[Galian Beast]

His side of the ball was decimated with injuries and he did about as good of a job as you could do with what was out there.


If there was a bad coordinator on the team it was Garrett.

Don't get me wrong, I would never have made Garrett Offensive Coordinator late alone Head Coach.

That being said, our defense was struggling with Rob Ryan's scheme and it was difficult to put in new players when players got injured. It was also difficult to bring rookies into the scheme.

It is also true that Rob barely had a top 10 defense in his career. In fact based on points I don't think he ever did.

 

[jobberone]

I dont think we will run a tampa 2. Well run a 4-3 under but our coverages will be a lot of man to man and cover 3 with the corners playing press. I think thats why kiffin said to look to the seahawks coverages, thats the best way to utilize our corners. And its why for the first time this team is looking for a free safety. Itll be hard to run those coverages without an earl thomas.

Basically, the corners will be pressing off the line and responsible for carrying their receivers from the hash to the sidelines. The free safety will play a deep middle zone, barry chirch will be in the box, and there will be linebacker zones underneath.

I'm sorry I missed this last night but this is likely I think as well. He'll mix things up but I do think you'll see a good bit of traditional Tampa 2 soft zones esp if they can get the O in 2nd and 3rd and long.

I'm interested in seeing what they run in special packages. I've read he likes to put a S/LB type in the middle for dime packages and I'm wondering if that will be Church, Wilcox or ???.

 

[jobberone]

It's BS or ignorance. Neither Kiffin nor Carol runs any 4-3/3-4 hybrid. And Tampa 2 refers to the coverage, not the front. Like Carroll, Kiffin will mix up his coverages and play cover 1, 2 or 3 mixed in with man/press, man off or man under. Carroll is a Kiffin disciple and he runs the 4-3 under as his base (vs. Jimmy who ran the 4-3 over). This does not mean that Kifin will not change up and run different fronts/coverages, or is running a hybrid, it will just depend on the offensive alignment.

The 4-3 under creates most of the pass rush from the 5 tech (weakside DE) and the 3 tech DT. The 1 technique NT and the 5 technique (strongside DE) have gap control. The SAM will line up as a 9 tech to rush the passer if certain offensive sets present itself. The FS will line up over the split end (opposite the TE) more often than not. If 3 receivers (trips), the SS is called on to cover the slot/flanker while the SAM covers the TE. Unlike some schemes, corners would cover the wide receivers, even if lined up on same side. In 2 TE and 1 back sets, FS covers the 2nd TE (SAM covers the first) and SS plays center field.

Kiffin's (and Carroll's) underlying philosophy is to force the offense to the middle of the field, that the D needs to create turnovers and generate pressure with 4. Very simple.

Not sure whether to laugh or be insulted. You are just running your mouth and obviously haven't heard or read anything Kiffin has said he's going to do this year. A simple search will get you the same information I gave. I don't have a relationship with Monte Kiffin. I just put out there what the guy has said he's going to do this year.

And your analysis of the Tampa 2 is only very superficially correct as others have pointed out. I don't know of any defense in the NFL or for that matter college that runs the same scheme every down. If you're going to call someone out at least be somewhat conversant in the material. I said he'll run a base over/under 4-3 grabbing the gaps but it'll be a lot more complex than that both up front and in the secondary.

As far as emulating Seattle, we don't have the tackles to run a lot of gap control whether traditional two gap or one gap and hold but he's said he'll run it some. Maybe he thinks Lissemore, Price and Holloway can do that; maybe even Rat on occasion. And I have no idea exactly what formations and personnel he's talking about when he says look to Seattle to get an idea about his plans this year. I just know they run a hybrid D both holding and grabbing the gaps.

Since you seem to have a pipeline on what he's going to do then please share with us what he's told you since that seems to conflict with what he's told the media.

 

[CyberB0b]

Tampa 2 is cover 3, the difference is that rather than have a corner play deep zone coverage you have a middle linebacker. The two corners and outside linebackers create intermediate zone coverage.

That depends on what the offense does. You need a really intelligent MLB to play effectively.

 

[Galian Beast]

As the season draws near I think it's becoming more and more important that we all get on the same page in trying to understand the Tampa 2 defense. There still seems to be a great deal of confusion. I'm going to list some great articles and videos breaking down the defense.

Origin, Concept, Formations, Strengths, Weaknesses
http://theboysareback.wordpress.com/2013/01/21/grampa-two-defense-explaining-the-tampa-2-defensive-strategy/

Terminology, Techniques, Positions, and how it applies to Dallas
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1483322-dallas-cowboys-breaking-down-the-teams-transition-to-the-tampa-2-defense


Monte Kiffin giving a class on the Tampa 2
http://brophyfootball.blogspot.com/2013/02/monte-kiffin-3-deep-coverage.html

Brian Billick explains Tampa 2 and Cover 3
[youtube]2f_qFhT1m7o[/youtube]
[youtube]RUv_3SdfrJA[/youtube]


Brian Broaddus' breakdown of the Tampa 2
http://www.dallascowboys.com/multimedia/videos/Film-Room-Explaining-The-Tampa-2/b7254c4f-5ce6-491c-ae2b-ba04d39b6416

If you have anything to add, please do so.

 

[Supercowboy1986]

im at work so i cant stream the videos at the moment (but i will when i get home.) but i do feel that the tampa-2 (or i guess the more appropriately named dallas-2 ) will be a lot better then people think. from my understanding (and correct me if i am wrong) it is a more simple scheme where players don't have play so much situational footbal and its more "x's and o's" kinda thing. not that im saying our guys were too dumb when it came to situational football but having more set jobs and less responsibilities should be easier/more effiecent IMO.

 

[Little Jr]

Maybe I misunderstanding but I would be shocked to see any hybird 4-3/3-4.

 

[jobberone]

Maybe I misunderstanding but I would be shocked to see any hybird 4-3/3-4.

Not sure why you'd be shocked. His 4-3 is generally attack the gap first step read the play on the run. It's not read and react. However, he's never done that every play and apparently his D is evolving like every O and D has to do. Almost every defense has 7-8 men in the box on first down and ten. Not always just generally. The differences in most defenses are not who has their hand on the ground but how they are playing the gaps and how they are reading the plays as well as how they are covering the pass. Most teams don't run a 4-3 or 3-4 exclusively just like they don't always have 4 DBs on the field all the time. When you start adding in situational players, stunts, blitzes, dropping linemen into coverage yada then you see that calling a defense a 4-3 is just a matter of convenience labeling. And every team uses the strengths of their personnel as wisely as they can. So that also dictates how they work the gaps and how which of course changes the way people label it. Of course their scheme affects what personnel they draft as well.

 

[hra8700]

A simple search will get you the same information I gave. I don't have a relationship with Monte Kiffin. I just put out there what the guy has said he's going to do this year.

I think I've looked at every single thing kiffin has said, and I don't think I've ever heard him mention anything specific about the scheme he's going to run. The only quote is that players should look at the seahawks (both to a db and to a dl). The seahawks run primarily a 4-3 under, but they run it with a lot of 2-gap principles since they have a lot of 3-4 personnel like red bryant at the 5-tech. Kiffin ran this scheme early in his career, but by the time he was in Tampa he ran almost exclusively 1-gap. I think all of our defensive lineman will be better one-gapping and getting up field, so I don't think we will have that many 3-4 principles like the seahawks do on their dline, but given that kiffin told hatcher to look at the seahawks...who knows.

 

[speedkilz88]

Kiffin came out right after that and said that they were very much a TB Buccaneers/Chicago Bears defense and that he was telling the secondary guys to look at what Seattle was doing. The interview may still be on dc.com

 

[hra8700]

Kiffin came out right after that and said that they were very much a TB Buccaneers/Chicago Bears defense and that he was telling the secondary guys to look at what Seattle was doing. The interview may still be on dc.com

That's exactly what I was thinking. I think the secondary will be very much like seattle's, tons of cover 3 and man-to-man. It fits our corners to a tee. It also fits with what kiffin just said about a smart free safety.

 

[VACowboy]

I dunno much about the T2 schemes, except that the MLB plays a lot of deep middle zone. Holloman seems like a prototypical Tampa 2 MLB to me.

 

[BAT]

Just like Shanahan would never run a pistol offense? After all he never used that before. He's a WCO guy and ran it at Denver, Oakland, and as the Bill Walsh's OC. Guess what. He ran the pistol.

Tampa-2 referred to the defense Kiffin ran when at Tampa. The Tampa 2 no more called cover 2 every play than it did call the under front every play. The primary set of the defense in tampa was cover 2 and the under front. His playbook called for all manner of coverages and fronts. Was it still the Tampa 2? yup.

I get so tired of people writing as if things are definitely going to be this or that when all it is is just a guess. It's one thing for jobber to say that he had heard that and it's quite another to act like you're prescient as to the future. Who knows what Kiffin and his staff has planned certainty? Certainly not us.

Until then it's just speculation.

Tampa 2 is not cover 2. And no matter how you spin it, Kiffin is not running a 3-4/4-3 hybrid.

Tampa 2 is a generic term to identify Kiffin's D scheme, it does not mean he will play a cover 2 (or 3 or 1) on every down. Kiffin's scheme has been tweaked since his Tampa Bay days but he will still use the 4-3 under as his base, as does Pete Carroll.

Even when Carroll was in USC, lots of pundits and fans thought he was running a 3-4. He was not.

 

[BAT]

Not sure whether to laugh or be insulted. You are just running your mouth and obviously haven't heard or read anything Kiffin has said he's going to do this year. A simple search will get you the same information I gave. I don't have a relationship with Monte Kiffin. I just put out there what the guy has said he's going to do this year.

And your analysis of the Tampa 2 is only very superficially correct as others have pointed out. I don't know of any defense in the NFL or for that matter college that runs the same scheme every down. If you're going to call someone out at least be somewhat conversant in the material. I said he'll run a base over/under 4-3 grabbing the gaps but it'll be a lot more complex than that both up front and in the secondary.

As far as emulating Seattle, we don't have the tackles to run a lot of gap control whether traditional two gap or one gap and hold but he's said he'll run it some. Maybe he thinks Lissemore, Price and Holloway can do that; maybe even Rat on occasion. And I have no idea exactly what formations and personnel he's talking about when he says look to Seattle to get an idea about his plans this year. I just know they run a hybrid D both holding and grabbing the gaps.

Since you seem to have a pipeline on what he's going to do then please share with us what he's told you since that seems to conflict with what he's told the media.

I don't have a pipeline to squat but I have played in a 4-3 (both over & under) schemes and coached 5-2 schemes (lots of similarities to the 3-4) at the high school level. So I am no expert but I at least can draw on personal experience to confirm what I actually see.

Just because a team 2 gaps does not mean it is a 3-4 front. You can 2 gap from a 4-3 under. And you can 1 gap from a 3-4. Just because the SAM becomes a pass rusher it does not mean they are playing a hybrid 4-3/3-4. The SAM is still responsible for outside leverage.

And both Carroll and Kiffin have stated that they do not play a 3-4 scheme.
Again I have never professed to be an expert, but dang it, this is football 101.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Tampa 2 is not cover 2. And no matter how you spin it, Kiffin is not running a 3-4/4-3 hybrid.

Tampa 2 is a generic term to identify Kiffin's D scheme, it does not mean he will play a cover 2 (or 3 or 1) on every down. Kiffin's scheme has been tweaked since his Tampa Bay days but he will still use the 4-3 under as his base, as does Pete Carroll.

Even when Carroll was in USC, lots of pundits and fans thought he was running a 3-4. He was not.

I get so tired of people writing as if things are definitely going to be this or that when all it is is just a guess.

Second verse same as the first. I guess you think it makes you seem more credible but it doesn't. Your guess is as good as anyone elses.

 

[Little Jr]

I do know it won't be a 4-3/3-4 hybird.

 

[BAT]

I do know it won't be a 4-3/3-4 hybird.

Be careful, you are not being credible now.

 

[BAT]

Second verse same as the first. I guess you think it makes you seem more credible but it doesn't. Your guess is as good as anyone elses.

We will see who's guess is correct. Not all guesses are created equal.