Tcu

[YosemiteSam]

I agree, I think it would be a good fit and makes the Big 12 stronger. As for UT and OU not wanting it, I don't buy that for a second playing in a strong conference gives more clout to the conference and helps in the rankings

This.

I think it would be stupid on UT and OU's part if they rejected a school like TCU. They are big time players right now and are continuously highly ranked. That draws more interest to OU, UT, AND the entire conference. Interest = Money.

 

[Doomsday101]

This.

I think it would be stupid on UT and OU's part if they rejected a school like TCU. They are big time players right now and are continuously highly ranked. That draws more interest to OU, UT, AND the entire conference. Interest = Money.

Exactly and the stronger the conference the more attention given to your record due to the strength of the conference. Right now what hurts TCU and Boise is the fact they are in weak conferances

 

[Hoofbite]

TCU overratted along with Boise St.

I don't care if either is overrated.

I want Boise to go undefeated and get their shot. They deserve it and I hope they win so the BCS looks every bit more like ****.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Exactly and the stronger the conference the more attention given to your record due to the strength of the conference. Right now what hurts TCU and Boise is the fact they are in weak conferances

This is the reason the SEC is so wildly popular.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

TCU has been good the last couple of years but there is no guarantee that TCU will continue to be good. There is a lot more that goes into that decision then if they will have a good football team this year. The Big12 would be stupid to base any decision on a couple of seasons IMO. TCU may be worthy, I don't know, but any decision should not be based on how good their football team will be this year. TCU really doesn't bring anything to the table as far as viewers. The Big 12 already has that market in place. A great deal would depend on academics and how they fit into what the Big 12 wants to do there. Their Stadium facilities are adequate, not huge so that's probably a draw back.

 

[mrwarr16]

I would want the big 12 to pick them up just to see if they can play with some of the big boys in that conference. Even though I think the big 12 has kinda went down hill the last couple of years and doesn't seem as tough as it use to be, specialy the north which is why Nebraska went to the Big 10 for more stability. Oh wait one more-MONEY lol

 

[YosemiteSam]

TCU has been good the last couple of years but there is no guarantee that TCU will continue to be good. There is a lot more that goes into that decision then if they will have a good football team this year. The Big12 would be stupid to base any decision on a couple of seasons IMO. TCU may be worthy, I don't know, but any decision should not be based on how good their football team will be this year. TCU really doesn't bring anything to the table as far as viewers. The Big 12 already has that market in place. A great deal would depend on academics and how they fit into what the Big 12 wants to do there. Their Stadium facilities are adequate, not huge so that's probably a draw back.

TCU has won five of the last ten conference championships and played in a Bowl game ten of the last eleven years. Thats over a decade of being a good team. I think it's clear they have staying power.
I can see how many people who would not realize how long they have been a good team when their eyes only look at the big conferences. What they don't realize is, for a team like TCU who plays in a bad conference, it takes many many years before they start getting headlines just for the fact that they aren't playing the headlining teams in the bigger conferences. When they start getting noticed, then they start getting to play other ranked teams. WHen they beat them, the start shooting up the rankings. This is how TCU got where they are. Teams like TCU and Boise State have it a hell of a lot tougher getting ranked than teams like Texas, OU, Florida, Alabama, etc that are in the big conferences.

That alone makes them deserve a hell of a lot more respect than they actually get. Especially from SEC fans and the like.

For me, the biggest question is can they replace Dalton when he leaves. Considering how good they have been for a long time, I have no doubt that they have enough status to bring a good QB in.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

TCU has won five of the last ten conference championships and played in a Bowl game ten of the last eleven years. Thats over a decade of being a good team. I think it's clear they have staying power.
I can see how many people who would not realize how long they have been a good team when their eyes only look at the big conferences. What they don't realize is, for a team like TCU who plays in a bad conference, it takes many many years before they start getting headlines just for the fact that they aren't playing the headlining teams in the bigger conferences. When they start getting noticed, then they start getting to play other ranked teams. WHen they beat them, the start shooting up the rankings. This is how TCU got where they are. Teams like TCU and Boise State have it a hell of a lot tougher getting ranked than teams like Texas, OU, Florida, Alabama, etc that are in the big conferences.

That alone makes them deserve a hell of a lot more respect than they actually get. Especially from SEC fans and the like.

For me, the biggest question is can they replace Dalton when he leaves. Considering how good they have been for a long time, I have no doubt that they have enough status to bring a good QB in.

NYC, I watch the Mountain West Conference every week. I know the difference between the MWC top to bottom and the Big12. This is a bit of a straw man argument IMO. I'm not saying that the MWC isn't a good conference but it's not the caliber of the Big 12 and others. Good in the MWC is not good nationally, per say, which is what would be needed to join the Big 12. The Big 12 could have gone out and gotten Utah or Boise or almost anybody they wanted to invite. TCU has to be more then just a strong team in the MWC to become part of the Big 12 IMO. They have to bring something to the table. What are they bringing to the table for the Big 12?

 

[YosemiteSam]

NYC, I watch the Mountain West Conference every week. I know the difference between the MWC top to bottom and the Big12. This is a bit of a straw man argument IMO. I'm not saying that the MWC isn't a good conference but it's not the caliber of the Big 12 and others. Good in the MWC is not good nationally, per say, which is what would be needed to join the Big 12. The Big 12 could have gone out and gotten Utah or Boise or almost anybody they wanted to invite. TCU has to be more then just a strong team in the MWC to become part of the Big 12 IMO. They have to bring something to the table. What are they bringing to the table for the Big 12?

Sorry, I wasn't trying to lumping you into the group I was describing.

Oh I know why they went after OU and Texas. They are extremely large schools with huge followings. That is without question a money grab. Texas and OU are two of probably the 10 or 12 biggest football schools in the country popularity wise. The addition of Texas and OU trumped every school already in the conference. (yes, including Nebraska) Why is that? Because they are almost always competitive and ranked.

Being a high caliber school is what the conference wants. High caliber schools are the schools that develop large followings. You think if the Big 12 was choosing between Iowa State or Baylor and TCU or Boise State today they should take one of those schools over TCU or Boise State? I think not. TCU and Boise State are far more valuable teams than either of those.

TCU and Boise State are getting nationally televised games because there are people out there nationally (not just locally) that want to see them play.

That is money for any conference.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Sorry, I wasn't trying to lumping you into the group I was describing.

Oh I know why they went after OU and Texas. They are extremely large schools with huge followings. That is without question a money grab. Texas and OU are two of probably the 10 or 12 biggest football schools in the country popularity wise. The addition of Texas and OU trumped every school already in the conference. (yes, including Nebraska) Why is that? Because they are almost always competitive and ranked.

Being a high caliber school is what the conference wants. High caliber schools are the schools that develop large followings. You think if the Big 12 was choosing between Iowa State or Baylor and TCU or Boise State today they should take one of those schools over TCU or Boise State? I think not. TCU and Boise State are far more valuable teams than either of those.

TCU and Boise State are getting nationally televised games because there are people out there nationally (not just locally) that want to see them play.

That is money for any conference.

Honestly, I don't think the Big 12 would consider any of those schools. Couple of things here. Any school considered would have to have an all around athletic program and high capacity facilities. Any school considered would have to have a high academic grade and any school considered would have to be bringing a fan base that the Big 12 doesn't already own. None of those schools really offer that.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Honestly, I don't think the Big 12 would consider any of those schools. Couple of things here. Any school considered would have to have an all around athletic program and high capacity facilities. Any school considered would have to have a high academic grade and any school considered would have to be bringing a fan base that the Big 12 doesn't already own. None of those schools really offer that.

You would be wrong. :laugh2: Bayor and Iowa State are already part of the Big 12!

Also to note, most of the teams in the BIG 12 do no "all around athletic programs" like say Texas.

Kansas and Kansas State have the same basic geographical region. As do Texas, Texas Tech, Texas A&M, and Baylor.

Region really doesn't have anything to do with it, nor does "all around athletic programs". As long as they have the major collegiate sports and a major following thats all that really matters. TCU is competitive, has a major following, and all the major sports. If the Big 12 could easily swap out a team, I'm willing to bet they would be more than happy to swap out any one of at least 3-5 of the teams to get TCU instead. It's just not that simple.

Just like a filthy Yankee fan. Always looking at it from an elitist point of view.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

You would be wrong. :laugh2: Bayor and Iowa State are already part of the Big 12!

Also to note, most of the teams in the BIG 12 do no "all around athletic programs" like say Texas.

Kansas and Kansas State have the same basic geographical region. As do Texas, Texas Tech, Texas A&M, and Baylor.

Region really doesn't have anything to do with it, nor does "all around athletic programs". As long as they have the major collegiate sports and a major following thats all that really matters. TCU is competitive, has a major following, and all the major sports. If the Big 12 could easily swap out a team, I'm willing to bet they would be more than happy to swap out any one of at least 3-5 of the teams to get TCU instead. It's just not that simple.

Just like a filthy Yankee fan. Always looking at it from an elitist point of view.

I would not be wrong NYC. Your question, as I understood it, was: Who would the Big 12 take? It was not, who was already in the Big 12?

If all 4 of those schools were trying to get into the Big 12 now, today, I don't believe the Big 12 would take any of them. What would be the advantage of accepting any of those schools into the Big 12 today?

The problem here is that you are looking at this from the point of view of when the Big 12 was created and not, where the Big 12 is, with regards to power and status now. Those are two different things. When the Big 12 was created, they had to accept certain teams because of Big 8 and SWC ties. That is no longer the case. If all it took were big time programs, then why didn't Kansas get a bid to join the PAC10? You don't get any bigger then Kansas in Basketball, yet the PAC 10 had little to no interest in them. No, it's more then that.

 

[YosemiteSam]

I would not be wrong NYC. Your question, as I understood it, was: Who would the Big 12 take? It was not, who was already in the Big 12?

If all 4 of those schools were trying to get into the Big 12 now, today, I don't believe the Big 12 would take any of them. What would be the advantage of accepting any of those schools into the Big 12 today?

The problem here is that you are looking at this from the point of view of when the Big 12 was created and not, where the Big 12 is, with regards to power and status now. Those are two different things. When the Big 12 was created, they had to accept certain teams because of Big 8 and SWC ties. That is no longer the case. If all it took were big time programs, then why didn't Kansas get a bid to join the PAC10? You don't get any bigger then Kansas in Basketball, yet the PAC 10 had little to no interest in them. No, it's more then that.

They aren't dealing a deck of cards. You can't just pass around teams like that. The PAC10 went after the biggest fish they thought they could get. That certainly wasn't Kansas. It cost HUGE amounts of money to do this. Ask the Big 12. They basically told Texas they would give them $20M a year and they could form their own network. That is something the Pac-10 wouldn't allow them to do. (money!)

The reason they went after Texas was because the Big 12 was a weakened conference. Nobody was going to leave the ACC, SEC, or BIG10 to go to the PAC10. One of the biggest fish out there in a weak conference is a prime target. Just like businesses trying hostile takeovers. The Big 12 saved it's own life by mortgaging it's future by giving so much away to Texas. If they were smart and could get TCU cheap, it would easily be in their best interest to get TCU.

It's a simply good business. TCU is a money maker. May be not on the scale of Texas, but they do make money.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

They aren't dealing a deck of cards. You can't just pass around teams like that. The PAC10 went after the biggest fish they thought they could get. That certainly wasn't Kansas. It cost HUGE amounts of money to do this. Ask the Big 12. They basically told Texas they would give them $20M a year and they could form their own network. That is something the Pac-10 wouldn't allow them to do. (money!)

I understand this, but we are not talking about Texas or OU. We are talking about what it takes to join the Big 12, today. What I am saying to you is that it takes more then just a Big Program in one sport. Utah or Boise would have jumped at the chance to joing the Big 12 but the Big 12 never offered either one of them. I will tell you now that Utah has had much better success in the MWC then has TCU. No offer so it's more then that.

The reason they went after Texas was because the Big 12 was a weakened conference. Nobody was going to leave the ACC, SEC, or BIG10 to go to the PAC10. One of the biggest fish out there in a weak conference is a prime target. Just like businesses trying hostile takeovers. The Big 12 saved it's own life by mortgaging it's future by giving so much away to Texas. If they were smart and could get TCU cheap, it would easily be in their best interest to get TCU.

It's a simply good business. TCU is a money maker. May be not on the scale of Texas, but they do make money.

TCU will not bring anything to the Big 12 that they don't already have. They already have the TV market share, which is what drives the BCS. They already have teams of equal size and stadium capacity so there is no advantage there. TCU, academically, is not going to improve the Big12 standards, which is pretty key. Most people think that the money comes from sports but it really doesn't. The big money is in Federal Funding and that goes to conferences who have high academic standards and scores. This is what the Big 12 is really trying to attract. They know that the money the Big 10 is getting is largely due to the fact that they are getting huge academic grants from the Government. The Big 12 is trying to capitalize on the same thing. In order to do that, they need to attract the right kind of school. That's Boise, Utah or TCU are not of great interest.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Oh it is about money. Don't kid yourself. It's always about money. Texas is still in the Big 12 because of money and money alone.

We will agree to disagree.