Team Identity

[RGKN33]

The real problem i have with Jerry with all these firings more than what i thought of RR (who i like ) , is that every year or two , coaches are getting fired and are not giving coaches a real chance to form an identety and have this team become a TEAM .

We are always firing someone when the real truth is the players we have either dont produce or arent good enough to start at theyre respective positions .
Are we a physical offense or defense ? Are we finesse ?

My best guess is that were a team on offense that tries to be too clever and outsmart OURSELVES . We have no running game partialy due to an insufficient oline and also bad play calling (how many years have we heard form opponents "we knew exactly every play they were running") .

On defense i see us as a team with some decent peices that play the wrong scheme alot . We never blitzed IMO because if you look at the players we cant shed blocks so why would we blitz . I think ryan did the best he could with what scraps that were left .


Id love to see an aggressive , physical defense but we just dont have the players .

Id love to be a smashmouth physical offense but once again , we dont have the players .

I just hope this next wave of coaches stick and are given a chance (beside garrett because imo he cost us ATLEAST 3 games)

 

[Frozen700]

Garrett is ruining this team.

We were bad already, now he's just making things worse.

Not only do we have a stale *** Offense.

Now we might go back to a stale *** 4-3....

Sweet

 

[RGKN33]

Garrett is ruining this team.

We were bad already, now he's just making things worse.

Not only do we have a stale *** Offense.

Now we might go back to a stale *** 4-3....

Sweet

He will be gone next year thankfully . But then what .
We need to DRAFT BETTER !
Form an IDENTITY !
We have been sleepwalking the last 20 years .
WAKE UP !

 

[Idgit]

I don't get this thread. JG's given the team an identity the last two years. Gotten rid of the me-first guys. The few malcontents we had. Shed old contracts. Brought in a ton of players who love football, are passionate, study game film, play hard up to the final whistle. He brought in one of the best zone blocking OL coaches in the league to help rebuild the line (yes, that project is still in progress). He rebuilt the CB corps with guys who can play effective press. He's consistently churned the bottom of the roster and brought in competition for starting positions. He handles everything thrown at him with intelligence, dignity, and class. He's had the team competing for the division in week 17 each of the last two offseasons after taking over a unit at 1-6 and repairing the wings on the team jet in mid-flight. I don't know what some of you guys are expecting to see, honestly.

 

[RGKN33]

I don't get this thread. JG's given the team an identity the last two years. Gotten rid of the me-first guys. The few malcontents we had. Shed old contracts. Brought in a ton of players who love football, are passionate, study game film, play hard up to the final whistle. He brought in one of the best zone blocking OL coaches in the league to help rebuild the line (yes, that project is still in progress). He rebuilt the CB corps with guys who can play effective press. He's consistently churned the bottom of the roster and brought in competition for starting positions. He handles everything thrown at him with intelligence, dignity, and class. He's had the team competing for the division in week 17 each of the last two offseasons after taking over a unit at 1-6 and repairing the wings on the team jet in mid-flight. I don't know what some of you guys are expecting to see, honestly.

This is so ridiculous i dont know where to begin , its clear you are either jason garrett or very naive .

Gotten rid of the me first guys------ exactly who would that be ? T.O. has been gone

Shed old contracts--------again not jasons doing but if you want to give him credit for this than you have to credit him for resigning sensi and scandrick lol

Brought in a ton of players who love football, are passionate, study game film, play hard up to the final whistle---------- who doesnt love football ? so we got rid of martellus , big deal

He brought in one of the best zone blocking OL coaches in the league to help rebuild the line------------yeah thats gone well romo runs for his life every play and we cant run the ball at all

He rebuilt the CB corps with guys who can play effective press------------we overpaid carr who has been decent and drafted claiborne who although is a rookie couldnt play press had to play soft because he was getting blown by off the line ... hardly impressed

He's consistently churned the bottom of the roster and brought in competition for starting positions---------what team doesnt do that ? we had to we had so many injuries

He handles everything thrown at him with intelligence, dignity, and class---------------this is all we agree on , i like garrett , just not as a head coach or coordinator .

He's had the team competing for the division in week 17 each of the last two--------------lol do i really have to tell you how that turned out .



Like it or not garrett has cost us multiple games this year with everything from game management to clock management to icing his own friggin kicker !!!!

It sounds to me like our identity is losing . From lack of game management and discipline which there is no way you could argue how undisciplined we've been the last few years .

STOP apolgizing for this man !

No more excuses for garrett he must go .

 

[SkinsandTerps]

So RGK, What is the solution ?

Say you keep Garrett...What is the solution ?

Say Jerry is still GM, you get the point.

But interesting thread indeed.

 

[Idgit]

This is so ridiculous i dont know where to begin , its clear you are either jason garrett or very naive .

Gotten rid of the me first guys------ exactly who would that be ? T.O. has been gone

Shed old contracts--------again not jasons doing but if you want to give him credit for this than you have to credit him for resigning sensi and scandrick lol

Brought in a ton of players who love football, are passionate, study game film, play hard up to the final whistle---------- who doesnt love football ? so we got rid of martellus , big deal

He brought in one of the best zone blocking OL coaches in the league to help rebuild the line------------yeah thats gone well romo runs for his life every play and we cant run the ball at all

He rebuilt the CB corps with guys who can play effective press------------we overpaid carr who has been decent and drafted claiborne who although is a rookie couldnt play press had to play soft because he was getting blown by off the line ... hardly impressed

He's consistently churned the bottom of the roster and brought in competition for starting positions---------what team doesnt do that ? we had to we had so many injuries

He handles everything thrown at him with intelligence, dignity, and class---------------this is all we agree on , i like garrett , just not as a head coach or coordinator .

He's had the team competing for the division in week 17 each of the last two--------------lol do i really have to tell you how that turned out .



Like it or not garrett has cost us multiple games this year with everything from game management to clock management to icing his own friggin kicker !!!!

It sounds to me like our identity is losing . From lack of game management and discipline which there is no way you could argue how undisciplined we've been the last few years .

STOP apolgizing for this man !

No more excuses for garrett he must go .

I'm tempted not to answer this, if the starting point is that my opinion is ridiculous and I'm either Jason Garrett or naive, but I'll give it a shot and we'll see how it goes.

Me first guys: Tashard Choice, Roy Williams, Martellus Bennet, MBIII.

Old contracts/old players: Marc Colombo, Leonard Davis, Andre Gurode, Keith Brooking, Bradie James, Terrence Newman. Not all of these guys were contract issues only, some of them were just too old to play effectively.

Then there were a bunch of guys who just couldn't play. Off the top of my head: Robert (?) Brewster, Alan Ball, Brandon Williams, Igor Olshansky.

The new guys we've brought in: Tyron Smith, Bruce Carter, Demarco Murray, Dwayne Harris, Mo Claiborne, Tyrone Crawford, Cole Beasley, James Hanna. To a man, these are dedicated smart players with talent and no character question marks.

Our roster has gotten better and deeper the last two seasons. I don't think there's any question of that.

As to the rest of the stuff, you don't have to like that we lost both season finales and missed the playoffs twice. I don't. You do have to acknowledge that not every team gets into that position. The last two years haven't been unmitigated disasters, they've just been disappointing.

And you don't have to like the guy as a coach. Clearly you don't and are in that group that so widely confused that the organization does and that they're moving parts around Jason Garrett because they otherwise really like what the guy's doing. Just note that some of us aren't shocked by this because we've seen what's been going on all along. The guy's a really well liked and organized coach who has the support of the organization. He needs to improve on game day. And he needs a few more pieces at key positions on the roster. But the guy's going a good job behind the scenes. He's established the team's identity as a well conditioned team that plays to the whistle and can beat anybody if they're within 10 points in the final quarter. Feel free to dislike that he hasn't done enough. I don't blame anyone for that, because I agree with it. But don't pretend he hasn't done anything just because you're frustrated with how the last two seasons have turned out.

 

[Risen Star]

If you want to know the real problem, I suggest you read Bob Sturm's latest. He couldn't possibly be more on point.

http://www.foxsportssouthwest.com/0...eft-/landing.html?blockID=846881&feedID=10194

 

[Hostile]

This team found an identity when a teammate passed away and another faced scrutiny none of us would like. The problem is, by that time they were too depleted to do much and it was too late in the season. I like the fight they showed, on both sides of the football. Add some talent, get some guys back, and I will believe we can reach potential. I'm not blaming any of the coaches for the injuries. Both sides need work.

But I don't agree that there is no identity.

 

[JBS]

This team found an identity when a teammate passed away and another faced scrutiny none of us would like. The problem is, by that time they were too depleted to do much and it was too late in the season. I like the fight they showed, on both sides of the football. Add some talent, get some guys back, and I will believe we can reach potential. I'm not blaming any of the coaches for the injuries. Both sides need work.

But I don't agree that there is no identity.

How on earth is this team going to carry over that "identity" into next season.

You think they will be playing for Brown is 2013? Fat chance

 

[Future]

I don't get this thread. JG's given the team an identity the last two years. Gotten rid of the me-first guys. The few malcontents we had. Shed old contracts. Brought in a ton of players who love football, are passionate, study game film, play hard up to the final whistle. He brought in one of the best zone blocking OL coaches in the league to help rebuild the line (yes, that project is still in progress). He rebuilt the CB corps with guys who can play effective press. He's consistently churned the bottom of the roster and brought in competition for starting positions. He handles everything thrown at him with intelligence, dignity, and class. He's had the team competing for the division in week 17 each of the last two offseasons after taking over a unit at 1-6 and repairing the wings on the team jet in mid-flight. I don't know what some of you guys are expecting to see, honestly.

I think sometimes the terms identity and personality are used too synonymously. This team is built to have a certain identity, I agree with that. But personality wise, a team takes on that of its coach...and JG has none. That's my biggest gripe about JG the head coach. While his OCing leaves a lot to be desired, the fact that he has a very "meh" attitude towards seemingly everything bothers me. I'm sure its probably different in the locker room, but the guy shows 0 emotion, and players play that way.

If you want to identify a team's personality, you start with the HC. I can't tell you what his personality is like because he doesn't seem to have one.

If you want to know the real problem, I suggest you read Bob Sturm's latest. He couldn't possibly be more on point.

http://www.foxsportssouthwest.com/0...eft-/landing.html?blockID=846881&feedID=10194

Let me guess...he blames Jerry and says we need to invest in the trenches :laugh2:

 

[Shinywalrus]

Garrett is ruining this team.

We were bad already, now he's just making things worse.

Not only do we have a stale *** Offense.

Now we might go back to a stale *** 4-3....

Sweet

We haven't even named the defensive coordinator and it's going to be a "stale" 4-3?

There is a point where one can cross from realism into not being a fan any more. Are you crossing it?

 

[Trajan]

If you want to know the real problem, I suggest you read Bob Sturm's latest. He couldn't possibly be more on point.

http://www.foxsportssouthwest.com/0...eft-/landing.html?blockID=846881&feedID=10194

That is an excellent article and exemplifies the confusion Jerry creates and why success will be so difficult with him here. He simply doesn't understand leadership, the need for a unified chain of command, and that he continues to undercut his coaches. Great read !

 

[Idgit]

I think sometimes the terms identity and personality are used too synonymously. This team is built to have a certain identity, I agree with that. But personality wise, a team takes on that of its coach...and JG has none. That's my biggest gripe about JG the head coach. While his OCing leaves a lot to be desired, the fact that he has a very "meh" attitude towards seemingly everything bothers me. I'm sure its probably different in the locker room, but the guy shows 0 emotion, and players play that way.

If you want to identify a team's personality, you start with the HC. I can't tell you what his personality is like because he doesn't seem to have one.

Let me guess...he blames Jerry and says we need to invest in the trenches :laugh2:

Teams don't really get identities until they win a lot. Or, I guess, lose a lot. Either way, it's a function of the play on the field more than what a coach does to forge an identity.

I don't think we play with no emotion. Do you really think that? I think we're not good enough, but we play with emotion. I believe everybody on this team likes everybody else and that they play hard. And I think Garrett's probably much less of a robot when he's not talking to the press (listen to his most recent interview re: this at dc.com if you haven't already, it's pretty good). He's still going to be a process and technique dork, I'm sure. But I bet he's got a bit more fire to him than you see when he's in front of a mic.

I like his demeanor a lot, mostly because he's reserved like Landry was reserved. I think that's what a lot of us old-school guys really love about him. Also, he played here. Also, he's really smart. I'll take a smart guy over a bombastic loudmouth every time all else being equal.

 

[xwalker]

If you want to know the real problem, I suggest you read Bob Sturm's latest. He couldn't possibly be more on point.

http://www.foxsportssouthwest.com/0...eft-/landing.html?blockID=846881&feedID=10194

"I say it has to be that the long-haired member of the most abrasive family in football likely showed his abrasive side at one point or another in this incredibly high-stress 2012 season. And when he does, he appears to have a tongue that might not always regulate itself well. Was it his personality that got him fired? I have no idea, but since people want a guess, that is where I am looking."

"Some will say that the Cowboys just wanted to move to the 4-3. And maybe that is all it is. But, if you read this column, you know that I have been saying they have been running a modified 4-3 for Ryan's entire run here. At least half of the game every week is either in an actual 4-3 (nickel defense on 3rd Downs and other passing scenarios) or a modified 3-4 where Ware rushes 88% of the time getting him defined as a DE in a 4-3 defense and the front 3 is just a DE and 2 DTs."

 

[junk]

"I say it has to be that the long-haired member of the most abrasive family in football likely showed his abrasive side at one point or another in this incredibly high-stress 2012 season. And when he does, he appears to have a tongue that might not always regulate itself well. Was it his personality that got him fired? I have no idea, but since people want a guess, that is where I am looking."

"Some will say that the Cowboys just wanted to move to the 4-3. And maybe that is all it is. But, if you read this column, you know that I have been saying they have been running a modified 4-3 for Ryan's entire run here. At least half of the game every week is either in an actual 4-3 (nickel defense on 3rd Downs and other passing scenarios) or a modified 3-4 where Ware rushes 88% of the time getting him defined as a DE in a 4-3 defense and the front 3 is just a DE and 2 DTs."

I suspect he was alluding to more these types of comments:

So, I take solace in that modern-day philosopher when I attempt to predict what is going to happen next in the Jerry Jones empire of football. There is no predicting what he will do, and when he starts making moves, conventional thinking or consensus should likely just be ignored. There is no point in playing this game.

So, is there issues with factions in the coaching staff? Well, let me say that this is my biggest hot-button issue with Jerry Jones (once we accept that he has given himself a life-time term as the team's general manager), the idea that a head coach has somewhere between little and nothing to do with who is on his staff.

This team is never short of story-lines, and maybe this is the year that Jason Garrett gets full control of his coaching staff.

But, I highly doubt it.

If there is one change we can bet against, it is the idea that Jerry will ever truly change his ways. You can't predict much about the man, except for the idea that he will still be doing things his way for many years to come and there is nothing you can do about it.

That last paragraph is the hardest to swallow if you are a Cowboys fan.

 

[Hostile]

How on earth is this team going to carry over that "identity" into next season.

You think they will be playing for Brown is 2013? Fat chance

2013 is not the 2012 team. I didn't say it would carry over. I said this team found one, too late for it to matter. It was in English too.

 

[RGKN33]

I'm tempted not to answer this, if the starting point is that my opinion is ridiculous and I'm either Jason Garrett or naive, but I'll give it a shot and we'll see how it goes.

Me first guys: Tashard Choice, Roy Williams, Martellus Bennet, MBIII.

Old contracts/old players: Marc Colombo, Leonard Davis, Andre Gurode, Keith Brooking, Bradie James, Terrence Newman. Not all of these guys were contract issues only, some of them were just too old to play effectively.

Then there were a bunch of guys who just couldn't play. Off the top of my head: Robert (?) Brewster, Alan Ball, Brandon Williams, Igor Olshansky.

The new guys we've brought in: Tyron Smith, Bruce Carter, Demarco Murray, Dwayne Harris, Mo Claiborne, Tyrone Crawford, Cole Beasley, James Hanna. To a man, these are dedicated smart players with talent and no character question marks.

Our roster has gotten better and deeper the last two seasons. I don't think there's any question of that.

As to the rest of the stuff, you don't have to like that we lost both season finales and missed the playoffs twice. I don't. You do have to acknowledge that not every team gets into that position. The last two years haven't been unmitigated disasters, they've just been disappointing.

And you don't have to like the guy as a coach. Clearly you don't and are in that group that so widely confused that the organization does and that they're moving parts around Jason Garrett because they otherwise really like what the guy's doing. Just note that some of us aren't shocked by this because we've seen what's been going on all along. The guy's a really well liked and organized coach who has the support of the organization. He needs to improve on game day. And he needs a few more pieces at key positions on the roster. But the guy's going a good job behind the scenes. He's established the team's identity as a well conditioned team that plays to the whistle and can beat anybody if they're within 10 points in the final quarter. Feel free to dislike that he hasn't done enough. I don't blame anyone for that, because I agree with it. But don't pretend he hasn't done anything just because you're frustrated with how the last two seasons have turned out.

Great reply and i appreciate your points even if i disagree .
But the main theme im talking about and you still cant answer. What kind of team are we ?

Your main points are roster turnover , well obviously since they guys you mentioned are mostly retired or just plain sucked . Also bringing in new players .Ok well we had a draft (which some would argue was pretty average)and signed bad oline men and a decent cb . Any coach can do that .

This is the part that really kills me below :
" The guy's a really well liked and organized coach who has the support of the organization. He needs to improve on game day ."

He needs to improve on game day ??
Isnt that the biggest part of being a head coach ? to WIN !

Like i mentioned before he has cost us games . Take just one of those games and even as injured and as inconsitent as we have played , we would have been in the playoffs where anything could happen . It was the same the year before so we cant say hes progressing .

Theres no way to argue out of that .

Jason Garrett is not a good coach .

 

[DBOY3141]

I think sometimes the terms identity and personality are used too synonymously. This team is built to have a certain identity, I agree with that. But personality wise, a team takes on that of its coach...and JG has none. That's my biggest gripe about JG the head coach. While his OCing leaves a lot to be desired, the fact that he has a very "meh" attitude towards seemingly everything bothers me. I'm sure its probably different in the locker room, but the guy shows 0 emotion, and players play that way.

If you want to identify a team's personality, you start with the HC. I can't tell you what his personality is like because he doesn't seem to have one.

Let me guess...he blames Jerry and says we need to invest in the trenches :laugh2:

Tony Dungy was about as mellow as they come and comes off on the sideline as having no personality. The Bucs and Colts players worshiped him. JG could be the same inside the locker room.

This team's identity has changed since Wade left and it's for the better. JG needs to improve as an OC, but as a HC he has done some things right.

 

[Risen Star]

I suspect he was alluding to more these types of comments:

That last paragraph is the hardest to swallow if you are a Cowboys fan.

You left off the ending. Even harder to swallow.

So what changes will truly matter if the biggest change doesn't happen? Well, that is tough to predict. But, the outcomes might not be as difficult to forecast.