Teams are trying to convince themselves qb is good enough

[Pantone282C]

It doesn't matter. He was good enough to not give the game away, and allow the players around him to carry him to a win. He may not be a great QB, but the fact that his team won a SB while he was under center, by definition means he was good enough. It may seem like semantics, but it really isn't. He didn't blow the game, therefore he was good enough. Are there a lot of QBs who are better? Probably, but until they play in a SB, we'll never know if they can handle the pressure.

It's a good point. Good enough at the right time, so to speak. Eagles flamed out this year. Very few teams have a constantly stable team that enables them to contend year after year.
Patriots...

 

[MetalMike]

This is great. Collin hit it on the head. He says that half the teams in the league are trying to convince themselves that their QB is good enough. The bears...... yep. Remember the chiefs with Smith? The would say he is good enough... and as Colin said... no he isnt.

And here we are trying to convince ourselves Dak is good enough. Did you watch Mahomes? Sad part is what else do you do?

If you're the Bengals and you already know you're bad, you watch college football closely and with the ascent of Joe Burrow, you make sure you stay bad.

 

[Diehardblues]

Fans try to convince themselves all they need is an elite QB. Wilson is elite but what has the team done without the "Legion of Boom". Jimmy G isn't elite, but he's gonna be playing in the Superbowl. People get distracted by Mahomes, he is the best in the game, but they also have very good ST and their defense has really stepped up over the last half of the season. Competing for a SB isn't about one player or position, it's about assembling a complete team.

Jimmy G didn’t need to do much obviously but remember they were 4-12 without him last year.

And the Chiefs were a playoff team without Mahomes with Alex Smith. But Mahomes elevates them to a championship contender.

That’s what Elite QB can do. Elevate those around them. It doesn’t guarantee championships but it certainly raises the possibilities and opportunities.

 

[IslandCowboy]

This theory is so overplayed. There is always more risk switching QBs than sticking with a good to very good QB. I haven't seen anything that says someone like Garoppolo is that much better than Dak. The difference is that Garoppolo has an extremely good defense, run game, and head coach. For every Mahomes and Garoppolo there is a Sam Darnald or Josh Rosen. I think we can make a Super Bowl with Dak and some better coaching and a more consistent surrounding cast. The alternative is so much worse. The likelihood that we hit big on another QB in the draft is just too low. Imagine being stuck with an actual terrible QB for 4-5 years.

 

[Diehardblues]

It's a good point. Good enough at the right time, so to speak. Eagles flamed out this year. Very few teams have a constantly stable team that enables them to contend year after year.
Patriots...

Yea, most of these average QB performed at a higher level helping propel their team on the bigger stages like Foles, Flacco and Eli for example. Many others like Doug Williams, Plunkett and Simms who had career days on the biggest stage.

 

[Diehardblues]

This theory is so overplayed. There is always more risk switching QBs than sticking with a good to very good QB. I haven't seen anything that says someone like Garoppolo is that much better than Dak. The difference is that Garoppolo has an extremely good defense, run game, and head coach. For every Mahomes and Garoppolo there is a Sam Darnald or Josh Rosen. I think we can make a Super Bowl with Dak and some better coaching and a more consistent surrounding cast. The alternative is so much worse. The likelihood that we hit big on another QB in the draft is just too low. Imagine being stuck with an actual terrible QB for 4-5 years.

As long as they’re under a Rookie contract your not hung . You can still draft another QB or pursue one in FA. Nothing like we will be stuck if we over pay Dak and this is as good as it gets.

Im not sure after missing playoffs 2 of last 3 years what is such a worse scenario?

 

[Diehardblues]

Best scenario is Tag Dak. Let’s see what he does with new coaching staff. And let’s draft a QB for insurance. We could use a better backup anyway. Let’s give ourselves some options.

 

[natedoug]

In a perfect world your first one would be great. The reality is on most teams the starters ARE the best they have so to pull starters as knee jerk reactions and put in players that aren't as talented or as good isn't making the team better. That problem rests with those scouting the players and what players they have not the coaches. Coaches can only do what they can with the talent they are given.

The second one is a given and i believe it is the case with most teams.

Your 4th one is moronic. The ability to coach and develop players and come up with winning game plans and deciding where problems may lay has less than zero to with what the public knows. Coaches don't work for the fans, they work for the team. The same with your 6th one. What and how a coach owns up with failures or honors success publicly doesn't matter. It's what hen does with his team in the looker room and meetings or during practices that matter.
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The Bullet Points were shared in the context of General Principles of Effective Leadership.
They can and should be adapted based on the business, team sport, etc. but they are absolutely sound.
Of course - a coach would not publicly share some feedback with individuals OUTSIDE the locker room. But it would be a mistake to not hold players accountable for poor performances or missed assignments in the locker room. At that accountability check could be by putting their butt on the bench. If not for the entire game but for periods of time or don't let them start the game. That would be a "public" display to the team.
Also - A coach admitting he "didn't" have the right game plan / scheme in place "publicly" to the team after a loss -- in my mind is fair. In addition to his statement to the team he should also hold the players accountable for their performance.

 

[InTheZone]

Jimmy G didn’t need to do much obviously but remember they were 4-12 without him last year.

And the Chiefs were a playoff team without Mahomes with Alex Smith. But Mahomes elevates them to a championship contender.

That’s what Elite QB can do. Elevate those around them. It doesn’t guarantee championships but it certainly raises the possibilities and opportunities.

Yup. The fixation on Dak is ridiculous because technically any QB can make the Super Bowl. Why are we so stuck on sticking with him when he's clearly no where near elite, especially at the amount he's asking for?

 

[gjkoeppen]

The Bullet Points were shared in the context of General Principles of Effective Leadership.
How they are enacted would need to be adapted based on the business, arena, etc. but they are absolutely sound.
Of course - a coach would not publicly share some feedback with individuals OUTSIDE the locker room. But it would be a mistake to not hold players accountable for poor performances or missed assignments in the locker room. That would only lead to other issues. ie .. Player x "if he can get away with a missed assignment & freelance .. why can't I" type of mentality

Also - A coach admitting he "didn't" have the right game plan / scheme in place "publicly" to the team after a loss -- in my mind is fair (if that is a true statement). He also should hold the players accountable for their performance.

ANYTHING a coaches needs to or feels he should say to the team is between the coach and the players and including the public or fans is nothing but nonsense. What you may be calling public when speaking to the team isn't going public, that a private statement. If anything players would probably be pissed if any dirty laundry was shared with the public and not kept in house. I think you're under the misguided idea that teams owe the public explanations for decisions a coach made or didn't make. Coaches don't work for the fans they work for the team. They don't owe the fans squat. If a coach decides to go public on something that's his prerogative but he owes the fans nothing. If fans want a say on NFL teams, move to Green Bay and buy some stock and become an part owner.
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[Proof]

Mahomes is the standard for good enough? He is one of the greatest to ever play the position. You do not need a Patrick Mahomes to win - it simply helps tremendously. Banking on getting your hands on a Mahomes-type player is foolish. You're far more likely to find a different formula for winning than to find Patrick Mahomes.

Lol seriously. The test cases are apparently mahomes and Alex Smith / Trubisky. Good stuff

 

[Proof]

Yup. The fixation on Dak is ridiculous because technically any QB can make the Super Bowl. Why are we so stuck on sticking with him when he's clearly no where near elite, especially at the amount he's asking for?

We’ve seen a few examples recently of teams moving on from their qb and it working out well. The chiefs trading up for Mahomes, Lamar falling to the Ravens, and Tannehill inexplicably reviving his career w/ the Titans. Prior to that it was what, A rod and the packers?

so what do you suggest?

 

[gjkoeppen]

Mahomes is the standard for good enough? He is one of the greatest to ever play the position. You do not need a Patrick Mahomes to win - it simply helps tremendously. Banking on getting your hands on a Mahomes-type player is foolish. You're far more likely to find a different formula for winning than to find Patrick Mahomes.

It's way way way way way to early to start putting Mahones in the one of the greatest to ever play. TWO seasons? If he keeps this up for another 6, 7, 8 years then maybe we start talking like that but not after just 2 seasons.
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[Roadtrip635]

Jimmy G didn’t need to do much obviously but remember they were 4-12 without him last year.

And the Chiefs were a playoff team without Mahomes with Alex Smith. But Mahomes elevates them to a championship contender.

That’s what Elite QB can do. Elevate those around them. It doesn’t guarantee championships but it certainly raises the possibilities and opportunities.

Again it takes more than that, but people like to reduce it to a single factor, makes it simpler for them.
9ers went 1-2 with Jimmy G last year. Their success this year has more to do with them signing Ford, Alexander and drafting Bosa than anything Jimmy G did this year.

The Chiefs fired their DC and shored up their defense this season and was one of the best the last half of the season. They signed Clark, making more than Dlaw and Mathieu (another big contract). They signed a capable backup QB, that helped them win games while Mahomes was injured that helped them get that bye week. They added another pro-bowl level return man for their ST.

 

[Aviano90]

We’ve seen a few examples recently of teams moving on from their qb and it working out well. The chiefs trading up for Mahomes, Lamar falling to the Ravens, and Tannehill inexplicably reviving his career w/ the Titans. Prior to that it was what, A rod and the packers?

so what do you suggest?

We also have an example closer to home. We moved on from our high dollar QB 4 years ago and results remained the same with a bus driver making peanuts. We went to the playoffs 50% of the time and won 1 wild card game in 4 years. We made the playoffs and won a playoff game at the same pace we were accustomed to accomplishIng those things.

 

[Proof]

Again it takes more than that, but people like to reduce it to a single factor, makes it simpler for them.
9ers went 1-2 with Jimmy G last year. Their success this year has more to do with them signing Ford, Alexander and drafting Bosa than anything Jimmy G did this year.

The Chiefs fired their DC and shored up their defense this season and was one of the best the last half of the season. They signed Clark, making more than Dlaw and Mathieu (another big contract). They signed a capable backup QB, that helped them win games while Mahomes was injured that helped them get that bye week. They added another pro-bowl level return man for their ST.

along with signing Tevin Coleman there’s a ton of factors in play.

It’s like the guys here who point out the packers doing so well this year without McCarthy, and not mentioning that they got significant upgrades in FA this yr after being notoriously stingy, and had two first round picks.

 

[Proof]

We also have an example closer to home. We moved on from our high dollar QB 4 years ago and results remained the same with a bus driver making peanuts. We went to the playoffs 50% of the time and won 1 wild card came in 4 years. We made the playoffs and won a playoff game at the same pace we were accustomed to accomplished those things.

Not sure how I missed that one lol. But yeah it fits the criteria. Either have a superstar fall in your lap or striking distance, a surprise reclamation project play out of his mind, or luck into a franchise qb with a supplemental pick

 

[Proof]

It's way way way way way to early to start putting Mahones in the one of the greatest to ever play. TWO seasons? If he keeps this up for another 6, 7, 8 years then maybe we start talking like that but not after just 2 seasons.
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disagree, it’s evident. We can argue greatest careers when it’s all said and done, but he’s one of the best to ever play already easily.

 

[OmerV]

Then why pay him like he's good enough to carry the team when everyone around him needs to be probowl caliber for Dak to be just ok?

That's nonsense. Dak doesn't need everyone else to be Pro Bowl level, he just needs a solid team around him where it's not all on his back. And, realistically, how many QBs can carry the team all on their back regardless of the talent throughout the rest of the team? The answer is none, although some need a stronger team around them than others. Your comment seems to suggest a QB can win on his own regardless of the talent level throughout the rest of the team.

Your comment also ignores that there are only a few QBs at the Rodgers/Brees/Brady/Mahomes level. The notion some seem to have that it's just a matter of moving on from Dak and going out and getting one of those guys is ridiculous.

As for pay, it's time to realize that $30-35MM/year is not reserved for the best of the best of the best. That's quickly becoming a common figure for a quality QB that isn't at that truly elite level. If Mahomes were negotiating a new contract right now he might command $40-45 million/year.

 

[Diehardblues]

We also have an example closer to home. We moved on from our high dollar QB 4 years ago and results remained the same with a bus driver making peanuts. We went to the playoffs 50% of the time and won 1 wild card game in 4 years. We made the playoffs and won a playoff game at the same pace we were accustomed to accomplishIng those things.

I was excited after the sensational rookie season but these last 3 seasons has dampened my enthusiasm.

I’m not sure where in any better place at QB than before?