Tell Me I'm Wrong

[kartr]

And try to support your argument with facts.

1. This team is NOT going to the playoffs and doesn't deserve it. I don't care what you say about the Commanders, being on the road, divisional game, etc, we needed this game as badly as they wanted it. We weathered the initial storm and then had every opportunity to blow it open. Except for one run by Portis on which Ellis was out of position for the 2nd time and Henry got treated like a female dog by Brandon Lloyd, they had no running game and no Moss. Now we'd have to not only beat Arizona, Detroit,TB, and Philly (the losers)but we'd also have to win 2 of 4 from Indy, NY, NO, and Atlanta (playoff caliber teams). Impossible? no, but we couldn't beat Washington...get serious.

2. Our defense is way way over-rated...don't give me stats...I've said all year that our defense can't stop anyone...I was happy with the goal line stand in the first quarter, but let's not forget that we let them drive 80 yards down the field with no running game. We had many opportunities with them backed up at their 20 or inside the 30 all game, and we never got a 3 and out...we let them drive the ball just about every time. This defense is not even helping win games, much less taking over.

3. Demarcus Ware is not a good pass rusher...period. Get up his butt and praise him all you want, but we should use him in coverage because he's not very good at getting pressure. If he totally beats his man 1-1, then yes, he can get any QB, but let him get blocked and he has nothing left. The only time he did anything yesterday was when they dared to try and block him with a TE...Their tackles owned him all game, especially when it counted.

We still cannot pressure the QB...not only did Brunnell have all day to stand back there, but his line also created huge passing lanes...no push up the middle at all....it was sad. Notice I didn't say Ware isn't a great LB...he is, but anyone who actually thinks he's going to be a great pass rusher is just not actually watching.

4. Our secondary is not very good in cover two...big surprise...the skins receivers were open over the middle all game long, guess who has the middle...Lb's and safeties...safeties playing deep...ouch.

5. Roy Williams is what he is...a great safety who is not so great at pass coverage...once again, he is back there, but he takes a bad angle, misjudging the WR and the ball...INT. He's improved in coverage...he's no Archelletta, but it's his biggest weakness...that's a fact...to argue otherwise is to ignore game results that occur time and time again.

The Commanders exposed us deep again....all teams need to go deep on us...they will either get a nice play because our CBs don't see the ball, or they'll get a penalty...it's rare for us to intercept a pass...Henry had two in the endzone and dropped them both, one resulting in a TD. Roy let one bounce off his head, through his hands.

6. Two point conversion in first quarter...stupid, regardless of what the cheat sheet says....period...too many various scoring factors for the next 3 quarters than can change the point spread in many different ways.

7. Penalties....close to 200 yards in penalties....ridiculous, mostly by the defense. There's no blaming this one on the refs since replay after replay showed we were getting away with holding on offense again and again, not to mention they were calling offensive interference on the Skins, usually a sure sign that there's no favor.

8. T.O.....still dropping passes....still selfishly getting camera time and a 15 yard penalty....then yammering back at Parcells who wasn't happy....he knew we'd get that 15 yarder...it's written in stone...you can't go to the ground.... with a kicker who can't get it past the 10....just selfish....we were lucky the Skins screwed it up....catching the kickoff at the 30, they should have been at midfield or around our 40. A great player? sometimes...is he earning his 10 million...nope...a 10 million dollar receiver doesn't drop a TD in a tight game....period.

9. We have two tough hardrunning backs who will be around for a while...you have to like them both yesterday and wonder why they weren't used a little more on the road....especially the short passes to Barber.

10. I know when to admit I'm wrong....two games in, there's no doubt about it...two different schemes bringing pressure, yesterday huge pressure on 3rd downs....We have us a QB, Boys. The Carolina game seemed to prove it....The Skins game nailed it down for me....big 3rd down plays again and again, under pressure....even the moxie to keep the ball and look like he's running before a last second pass to Barber that gave Barber the angle on the defender to run for a first down....the huge completion to Witten to get the win (oh yeah...someone blew an assignment and let it get blocked from the side). WE have a QB.

11. This season is basically over as far as any playoff hopes go...but we found a QB...we improved the OL and can do more next year....we still need to add some youth to the WR mix.

12. We also learned that T.O. is good, but can't be counted on as a sure thing.

13. It's too early to judge this past year's draft class, but right now it doesn't look good...the first day looks very very bad.

Pick your numbers, and tell me I'm wrong.

*** I'm guessing we need to come up with some different defensive schemes for getting pressure and for playing pass coverage...whatever we're doing just doesn't seem to work against the NFC East opponents....If our defense could have gotten an occasional stop when the Skins were backed up, it would have helped our offense to have a short field.

The Skins made some huge errors, dropping passes, fumbling in our territory, botching the kr at their 30, blowing a sure punt downing at our 1 yard line...they tried their best to give it to us....but we aren't a team ready to take it....for the past two years, whenever our playoff lives seem on the line, we lose.

I agree pretty much with all points made,except for no.11, Romo may become a good backup, but for 16 games, we need to do better, maybe trade a draft pick for David Garrard. We need a qb who can consistently get the ball down field, not a dink and dunker and one who is powerful enough to take a 16 game pounding. I just don't like the way Romo goes down, like a rag doll. If we can't get Garrard, let's wait for JaMarcus Russell to come out and put together a package to get him.

 

[Chuck 54]

Ahh, the good ol' days, when Charles Haley pressured the quarterback on every play, Deion Sanders never allowed a completion and Darren Woodson made three big plays per game and never gave up one. Gotta love revisionist history.




First of all, Haley rushed the passer on every pass play. He probably dropped into coverage fewer than five times total in his five seasons in Dallas -- if that much. Secondly, Haley was a three-time Pro Bowl player who averaged 13 sacks per season BEFORE he even came to Dallas. When we got him, he was an All-Pro at the top of his game, one of the best two or three pass-rushers in the NFL. If you're saying that Ware "is not very good" because he's not at that level after 24 NFL games, your expectations might be a bit high.



Nobody said he was "great" yet. I said he was good with a chance to be great.

One question -- which current NFL player would YOU consider to be "great" at rushing the passer? I need a point of reference here.

Well, I don't see any reason to continue the discussion since I admitted it's more a gut feeling than anything I can support with stats like you did...however, I will stand firm that it's not revisionist history that Haley applied pressure almost all game long...he was always near the top of the league in pressures, and the year Tolbert had more sacks than Haley, #94 had more than double the pressures of anyone on the team...I don't call that revisionist.

If Ware is the only pass rusher we have that can really get the job done, and I don't doubt that, then I don't buy the idea of how seldom he's actually rushing...if we're not blaming the player's skills, then we should be blaming the coaches use...maybe he should be coming most of the time, ala LT, or maybe he should be a DE in the 4 man line in passing situations...I don't have the answer...all I know is that our defense is not pressuring QBs enough, and Ware is the best we have...where does that leave us...not arguing, but do we just shrug and say that's the way it is in the 3-4 with the way we're using Ware?

As for Deon and Woodson, your hyperbole is closer to fact than to fiction in the days of their prime....Woodson was actually part of the problem late in his career....if Roy could cover slot WR's in man the way Woodson did in his best years, we might indeed be comparing him to Ronnie Lott.

 

[Chuck 54]

I agree pretty much with all points made,except for no.11, Romo may become a good backup, but for 16 games, we need to do better, maybe trade a draft pick for David Garrard. We need a qb who can consistently get the ball down field, not a dink and dunker and one who is powerful enough to take a 16 game pounding. I just don't like the way Romo goes down, like a rag doll. If we can't get Garrard, let's wait for JaMarcus Russell to come out and put together a package to get him.

Wow....I'm a little surprised at your criticism of Romo....I was one person who didn't think this undrafted FA would ever be more than a backup, but in two games he's shown me that I was an idiot...I have seen enough to believe he can develop into one of the special QB's in the league....his quick decisions and accuracy are uncanny for a guy with only two starts, both under lots of pressure.

And I think I've seen much more than dinking and dunking....he's gone deep quite a bit with the only bad one I've seen the overthrow of Glenn.

 

[TNCowboy]

I agree pretty much with all points made,except for no.11, Romo may become a good backup, but for 16 games, we need to do better, maybe trade a draft pick for David Garrard. We need a qb who can consistently get the ball down field, not a dink and dunker and one who is powerful enough to take a 16 game pounding. I just don't like the way Romo goes down, like a rag doll. If we can't get Garrard, let's wait for JaMarcus Russell to come out and put together a package to get him.

It's all about race with you, isn't it?

 

[jackrussell]

If we can't get Garrard, let's wait for JaMarcus Russell to come out and put together a package to get him.

A package... ...to get...:laugh2: ..JeMarcus.... ....Russell?

 

[AdamJT13]

Well, I don't see any reason to continue the discussion since I admitted it's more a gut feeling than anything I can support with stats like you did...however, I will stand firm that it's not revisionist history that Haley applied pressure almost all game long...he was always near the top of the league in pressures, and the year Tolbert had more sacks than Haley, #94 had more than double the pressures of anyone on the team...I don't call that revisionist.

When you say "Haley pressured the QB on almost every pass play," not only is that revisionism, it's preposterous. I'll see if I can track down the number of quarterback pressures Haley had in 1993, when our opponents ran 589 pass plays and Haley finished the season with four sacks. I guarantee you it's nowhere close to "almost every pass play."

If Ware is the only pass rusher we have that can really get the job done, and I don't doubt that, then I don't buy the idea of how seldom he's actually rushing.

What do you mean, you don't "buy the idea"? It's not an idea. The number of times he rushes the passer or drops into coverage is a fact. All you have to do is watch him. There's nothing to "buy."

And you haven't told me who you DO think is a "great" pass-rusher these days.

 

[LeonDixson]

3,6,8,11,13



6 - The conversion was the right thing to do and we had been successful at it once last week with Romo. In hindsight, had we kicked the extra point, we lose by 2 points versus three. Horseshoes and hand grenades ring a bell?

The only problem with your argument, trueblue, is that had we kicked the extra point and been leading by one point at the end; we would have run the clock out. We wouldn't have been trying to kick a field goal.

That's not exactly true. When he gets one-on-one matchups, opposing teams usually resort to 3 step dropbacks. When they want to go to 5 or 7 step dropbacks, they'll usually put the slot WR to his side...forcing him in coverage or give him a double team.
YAKUZA

It amazes me how much charting and analysis some of you do. I really enjoy reading this type of post because it gives me a new perspective to think about.

People just need to watch other teams play. Every week I see defenses get the occasional the free shot at an unsuspecting QB because their blitz is disguised well enough and the opposing O-Line can't recognize it. I don't know when the last time that has happened with the Dallas defense. Teams pretty much know before they snap the ball who is blitzing and where they are coming from.
YAKUZA

This is so true! Why do we hardly ever see a Cowboy in the other team's backfield before the QB can complete his drop back. It happens to us all the time. We even have defensive players in our backfield waiting for our RB's to get the handoff at times. I rarely see us doing that to other teams. Although I have to admit that our O-line has done a little better job of run blocking this year.

That's just it you have a blind hatred for the guy and that's your problem.
.

Terrell, is that you?? Saying anything bad about Owens is becoming as risky as criticizing QC used to be. Calling him out on a stupid play equates to being a hater.

It's all about race with you, isn't it?

I'm glad someone else sees this as well. Romo can't be more than a backup because he's white. QC was better than Manning, and Brady combined could ever hope to be.

Wayne, I think it's too early to write off the season, but I have the same feeling that you do. This team is too darn inconsistent to go deep into the playoffs. It's almost like we are obligated to lose a game no matter who we are playing the week after a win.

However, if they cut down on the penalties and play on a more steady keel the rest of the season, then they can do it. It would be nice to see a good winning streak though.

 

[Manster68]

The only problem with your argument, trueblue, is that had we kicked the extra point and been leading by one point at the end; we would have run the clock out. We wouldn't have been trying to kick a field goal.

Leon,

The reason I do not get overly upset over the 2-point conversion is that most likely Washington would have went for two after their second touchdown (the pass to Cooley).

I think the point is moot. The score would have been most likely tied anyways.

 

[LeonDixson]

Leon,

The reason I do not get overly upset over the 2-point conversion is that most likely Washington would have went for two after their second touchdown (the pass to Cooley).

I think the point is moot. The score would have been most likely tied anyways.

That is entirely possible and it could have succeeded or failed. I wasn't really commenting on whether the call was appropriate or not. just that the blocked field goal would not have been attempted if everything else remained the same.

 

[Munchis]

And try to support your argument with facts.

1. This team is NOT going to the playoffs and doesn't deserve it. I don't care what you say about the Commanders, being on the road, divisional game, etc, we needed this game as badly as they wanted it. We weathered the initial storm and then had every opportunity to blow it open. Except for one run by Portis on which Ellis was out of position for the 2nd time and Henry got treated like a female dog by Brandon Lloyd, they had no running game and no Moss. Now we'd have to not only beat Arizona, Detroit,TB, and Philly (the losers)but we'd also have to win 2 of 4 from Indy, NY, NO, and Atlanta (playoff caliber teams). Impossible? no, but we couldn't beat Washington...get serious.

2. Our defense is way way over-rated...don't give me stats...I've said all year that our defense can't stop anyone...I was happy with the goal line stand in the first quarter, but let's not forget that we let them drive 80 yards down the field with no running game. We had many opportunities with them backed up at their 20 or inside the 30 all game, and we never got a 3 and out...we let them drive the ball just about every time. This defense is not even helping win games, much less taking over.

3. Demarcus Ware is not a good pass rusher...period. Get up his butt and praise him all you want, but we should use him in coverage because he's not very good at getting pressure. If he totally beats his man 1-1, then yes, he can get any QB, but let him get blocked and he has nothing left. The only time he did anything yesterday was when they dared to try and block him with a TE...Their tackles owned him all game, especially when it counted.

We still cannot pressure the QB...not only did Brunnell have all day to stand back there, but his line also created huge passing lanes...no push up the middle at all....it was sad. Notice I didn't say Ware isn't a great LB...he is, but anyone who actually thinks he's going to be a great pass rusher is just not actually watching.

4. Our secondary is not very good in cover two...big surprise...the skins receivers were open over the middle all game long, guess who has the middle...Lb's and safeties...safeties playing deep...ouch.

5. Roy Williams is what he is...a great safety who is not so great at pass coverage...once again, he is back there, but he takes a bad angle, misjudging the WR and the ball...INT. He's improved in coverage...he's no Archelletta, but it's his biggest weakness...that's a fact...to argue otherwise is to ignore game results that occur time and time again.

The Commanders exposed us deep again....all teams need to go deep on us...they will either get a nice play because our CBs don't see the ball, or they'll get a penalty...it's rare for us to intercept a pass...Henry had two in the endzone and dropped them both, one resulting in a TD. Roy let one bounce off his head, through his hands.

6. Two point conversion in first quarter...stupid, regardless of what the cheat sheet says....period...too many various scoring factors for the next 3 quarters than can change the point spread in many different ways.

7. Penalties....close to 200 yards in penalties....ridiculous, mostly by the defense. There's no blaming this one on the refs since replay after replay showed we were getting away with holding on offense again and again, not to mention they were calling offensive interference on the Skins, usually a sure sign that there's no favor.

8. T.O.....still dropping passes....still selfishly getting camera time and a 15 yard penalty....then yammering back at Parcells who wasn't happy....he knew we'd get that 15 yarder...it's written in stone...you can't go to the ground.... with a kicker who can't get it past the 10....just selfish....we were lucky the Skins screwed it up....catching the kickoff at the 30, they should have been at midfield or around our 40. A great player? sometimes...is he earning his 10 million...nope...a 10 million dollar receiver doesn't drop a TD in a tight game....period.

9. We have two tough hardrunning backs who will be around for a while...you have to like them both yesterday and wonder why they weren't used a little more on the road....especially the short passes to Barber.

10. I know when to admit I'm wrong....two games in, there's no doubt about it...two different schemes bringing pressure, yesterday huge pressure on 3rd downs....We have us a QB, Boys. The Carolina game seemed to prove it....The Skins game nailed it down for me....big 3rd down plays again and again, under pressure....even the moxie to keep the ball and look like he's running before a last second pass to Barber that gave Barber the angle on the defender to run for a first down....the huge completion to Witten to get the win (oh yeah...someone blew an assignment and let it get blocked from the side). WE have a QB.

11. This season is basically over as far as any playoff hopes go...but we found a QB...we improved the OL and can do more next year....we still need to add some youth to the WR mix.

12. We also learned that T.O. is good, but can't be counted on as a sure thing.

13. It's too early to judge this past year's draft class, but right now it doesn't look good...the first day looks very very bad.

Pick your numbers, and tell me I'm wrong.

*** I'm guessing we need to come up with some different defensive schemes for getting pressure and for playing pass coverage...whatever we're doing just doesn't seem to work against the NFC East opponents....If our defense could have gotten an occasional stop when the Skins were backed up, it would have helped our offense to have a short field.

The Skins made some huge errors, dropping passes, fumbling in our territory, botching the kr at their 30, blowing a sure punt downing at our 1 yard line...they tried their best to give it to us....but we aren't a team ready to take it....for the past two years, whenever our playoff lives seem on the line, we lose.

I agree with just about everything.....we are a very flawed team in the midst of rebuilding.....however I still don't think we have a QB. 2 1/2 games don't make a career and things can go south very fast.

Munchis....Out!!

 

[cowboys19]

I agree with just about everything.....we are a very flawed team in the midst of rebuilding.....however I still don't think we have a QB. 2 1/2 games don't make a career and things can go south very fast.

Munchis....Out!!

Oh god

 

[Manster68]

Goodness! What a bunch of chicken littles!

The sky is falling!

The sky is falling!

Granted, things haven't exactly gone Dallas' way this year, but there is no reason to concede the season.

Dallas is a young football team (contrary to popular belief). The Cowboys only have 13 players with greater than 5 years experience. Mistakes are going to be made. Along with everyone else, I am a bit surprised over the amount of mistakes made, but most/all of that is coachable.

Just enjoy the rest of the season. Regardless what happens, the 230 some odd days during the offseason is quite long and seems like forever.

I get angry too, but I am not giving up hope like some of you.

 

[ringmaster]

The only problem with your argument, trueblue, is that had we kicked the extra point and been leading by one point at the end; we would have run the clock out. We wouldn't have been trying to kick a field goal.



It amazes me how much charting and analysis some of you do. I really enjoy reading this type of post because it gives me a new perspective to think about.


This is so true! Why do we hardly ever see a Cowboy in the other team's backfield before the QB can complete his drop back. It happens to us all the time. We even have defensive players in our backfield waiting for our RB's to get the handoff at times. I rarely see us doing that to other teams. Although I have to admit that our O-line has done a little better job of run blocking this year.


Terrell, is that you?? Saying anything bad about Owens is becoming as risky as criticizing QC used to be. Calling him out on a stupid play equates to being a hater.



I'm glad someone else sees this as well. Romo can't be more than a backup because he's white. QC was better than Manning, and Brady combined could ever hope to be.

Wayne, I think it's too early to write off the season, but I have the same feeling that you do. This team is too darn inconsistent to go deep into the playoffs. It's almost like we are obligated to lose a game no matter who we are playing the week after a win.

However, if they cut down on the penalties and play on a more steady keel the rest of the season, then they can do it. It would be nice to see a good winning streak though.

I just called out people who tend to judge someone and justify the same thing for someone else no I'm not Terrell is that you Skip.

 

[Concord]

When you say "Haley pressured the QB on almost every pass play," not only is that revisionism, it's preposterous. I'll see if I can track down the number of quarterback pressures Haley had in 1993, when our opponents ran 589 pass plays and Haley finished the season with four sacks. I guarantee you it's nowhere close to "almost every pass play.

Whatever...Ware couldn't carry Haley's jock...any day...any how...any way!

And I'm a Ware fan.

 

[AdamJT13]

Whatever...Ware couldn't carry Haley's jock...any day...any how...any way

What does that have to do with this discussion?

 

[Chuck 54]

What do you mean, you don't "buy the idea"? It's not an idea. The number of times he rushes the passer or drops into coverage is a fact. All you have to do is watch him. There's nothing to "buy."

And you haven't told me who you DO think is a "great" pass-rusher these days.

1. poor wording...I don't buy that as an excuse...as I've said before, I have to blame either Ware or the coaches because I don't see him getting as much consistant pressure as I'd like to see from our best pass rusher.

2. I don't really follow the NFL....I've been a Cowboys fan since 1967, but when they don't play, I don't even care to watch the NFL unless it's to pull for the Skins, Giants, or Eagles to lose.

However, I guess I'd have to wonder how that guy Oakland picked up, Burgess, is getting so many sacks...he doesn't look big enough to be a 4-3 DE, but the announcers said no one in the NFL has more sacks over the past 4 years, I think they said....I find it impressive that the guy is doing anything this year in Oakland the way their season is going. Obviously, I hear a lot about Berry in Arizona, and I see Strayhan seemingly destroy our team every time we play them, but I'm sure that has as much to do with our OL as it does with him.

I don't really care if a guy gets 15 sacks or 8 for the year if he's disruptive and brings pressure, winning most of his 1-1 battles, which should bring opportunities for other teams.

Here's another idea...maybe Ware would be more productive if the front 3 were able to get a little push in the middle so the QB can't step up.

 

[Zaxor]

1. poor wording...I don't buy that as an excuse...as I've said before, I have to blame either Ware or the coaches because I don't see him getting as much consistant pressure as I'd like to see from our best pass rusher.

2. I don't really follow the NFL....I've been a Cowboys fan since 1967, but when they don't play, I don't even care to watch the NFL unless it's to pull for the Skins, Giants, or Eagles to lose.

However, I guess I'd have to wonder how that guy Oakland picked up, Burgess, is getting so many sacks...he doesn't look big enough to be a 4-3 DE, but the announcers said no one in the NFL has more sacks over the past 4 years, I think they said....I find it impressive that the guy is doing anything this year in Oakland the way their season is going. Obviously, I hear a lot about Berry in Arizona, and I see Strayhan seemingly destroy our team every time we play them, but I'm sure that has as much to do with our OL as it does with him.

I don't really care if a guy gets 15 sacks or 8 for the year if he's disruptive and brings pressure, winning most of his 1-1 battles, which should bring opportunities for other teams.

Here's another idea...maybe Ware would be more productive if the front 3 were able to get a little push in the middle so the QB can't step up.

I think this above all else is what is hurting us in the pass rush department...there is never any pass rush up the middle what so ever...

but also like Adam said... Ware is taken a beating on this board but it isn't really warranted...when Ware rushes the qb it is normally the qb does a 3 step drop... when they take 5 steps or more Ware is either in coverage or doubled...the few plays were he was not he applied very good pressure

 

[SultanOfSix]

Here's another idea...maybe Ware would be more productive if the front 3 were able to get a little push in the middle so the QB can't step up.

You mean like this idea earlier in the thread:

"Ware isn't the problem. If we got any penatration from Spears or Canty at least once or twice a drive, I will guarantee you Ware and Ellis's sack totals will skyrocket."

 

[Manster68]

1. poor wording...I don't buy that as an excuse...as I've said before, I have to blame either Ware or the coaches because I don't see him getting as much consistant pressure as I'd like to see from our best pass rusher.

2. I don't really follow the NFL....I've been a Cowboys fan since 1967, but when they don't play, I don't even care to watch the NFL unless it's to pull for the Skins, Giants, or Eagles to lose.

However, I guess I'd have to wonder how that guy Oakland picked up, Burgess, is getting so many sacks...he doesn't look big enough to be a 4-3 DE, but the announcers said no one in the NFL has more sacks over the past 4 years, I think they said....I find it impressive that the guy is doing anything this year in Oakland the way their season is going. Obviously, I hear a lot about Berry in Arizona, and I see Strayhan seemingly destroy our team every time we play them, but I'm sure that has as much to do with our OL as it does with him.

I don't really care if a guy gets 15 sacks or 8 for the year if he's disruptive and brings pressure, winning most of his 1-1 battles, which should bring opportunities for other teams.

Here's another idea...maybe Ware would be more productive if the front 3 were able to get a little push in the middle so the QB can't step up.

Gee, Canty and Spears weren't known for being great pass rushers in college. What made you think that they were going to be great pass rushers in the pros?

These two though, have been fabulous against the run. The big runs against the Cowboys have been to the outside.