The 5-2 ...

[Banned_n_austin]

Anyone think we'll see it this year?

I know, I know ... it's a basic defense that they don't run in the NFL ...

And I know most of you will probably laugh this little random "thought" off ...

But just a thought here ... on the line you have Ellis, Furgeson, Glover, Spears and you're running a 4-3 of Burnett, Nyguen and Ware ... now move Ware up to the line and you're overloaded with pass rushers - good ones too.

Like Parcells said in his press conference, his defense is going to be run around the personell. And to me that meant that he is going to have his best players on the field ...

Dont get me wrong. I'm not trying to start a Nors 3-4 revolution ... and I don't think we'll see a lot of it, because we can use those players better in a 4-3 ... but I bet we'll see some 5-2 this year in some situations ... particularly passing situations ...

 

[Echo9]

Anyone think we'll see it this year?

I know, I know ... it's a basic defense that they don't run in the NFL ...

And I know most of you will probably laugh this little random "thought" off ...

But just a thought here ... on the line you have Ellis, Furgeson, Glover, Spears and you're running a 4-3 of Burnett, Nyguen and Ware ... now move Ware up to the line and you're overloaded with pass rushers - good ones too.

Like Parcells said in his press conference, his defense is going to be run around the personell. And to me that meant that he is going to have his best players on the field ...

Dont get me wrong. I'm not trying to start a Nors 3-4 revolution ... and I don't think we'll see a lot of it, because we can use those players better in a 4-3 ... but I bet we'll see some 5-2 this year in some situations ... particularly passing situations ...

Well, ya never know what formations we put out there this year, but I think we will see alot of change-ups.

One thing I disagree with is Ware though. He won't line up at LB in the 4-3. He will either be at RDE with Ellis at LDE with Spears off the field, or he'll be on the sidelines himself

Ware doesn't project to a 4-3 LB.

 

[Banned_n_austin]

Well, ya never know what formations we put out there this year, but I think we will see alot of change-ups.

One thing I disagree with is Ware though. He won't line up at LB in the 4-3. He will either be at RDE with Ellis at LDE with Spears off the field, or he'll be on the sidelines himself

Ware doesn't project to a 4-3 LB.

So, you don't think he can play a 4-3 LB at all?

 

[Banned_n_austin]

Keep in mind here, that Williams could come up and play the role of a LB if the CB's man up well enough ...

 

[blindzebra]

If he can play 3-4 LB he can play WLB in a 4-3. He will do more than just rush the passer in the 3-4, or he would make our defense completely predictable and easy to beat.

Keep in mind he'd be playing LB behind Ellis, who we have used in the zone blitz before.

I can see him playing LB in both and DE on passing downs.

 

[Banned_n_austin]

If he can play 3-4 LB he can play WLB in a 4-3. He will do more than just rush the passer in the 3-4, or he would make our defense completely predictable and easy to beat.

I agree 100%.

Keep in mind he'd be playing LB behind Ellis, who we have used in the zone blitz before.

Good point.

I can see him playing LB in both and DE on passing downs.

Me too ... that's why I see us having the personnel to run anything between the 3-4 to the 5-2 ... If he can play LB and DE, why not?

I'm telling you guys, this isn't going to be a one-look defense. It's going to be the most unpredictable defense in the league.

 

[blindzebra]

Mitten sells in Hades just went thru the roof.

 

[dougonthebench]

I think the D will show multiple D's,3-4/4-3 alignments,keeping the O off guard.

 

[Banned_n_austin]

Mitten sells in Hades just went thru the roof.

Why, because we agree?

 

[blindzebra]

Why, because we agree?

 

[Banned_n_austin]

I'm just saying that if Roy is most comfortable in the box ... why not move him up and also move Ware up a little and put him next to Ellis, Fergeson, Glover and Spears/Canty ... the blitz that would cause will be tremendous and you'd have several capable pass rushers coming at you at the same time. The only thing is, you leave the CB's in a man coverage, but that's not unlike the Cowboys to do that.

 

[blindzebra]

I'm just saying that if Roy is most comfortable in the box ... why not move him up and also move Ware up a little and put him next to Ellis, Fergeson, Glover and Spears/Canty ... the blitz that would cause will be tremendous and you'd have several capable pass rushers coming at you at the same time. The only thing is, you leave the CB's in a man coverage, but that's not unlike the Cowboys to do that.

I've said all along put your best 11 out there.

Spears has the size to bull rush and engage multiple blockers. Is solid against the run.

Ferguson will force double teams and can collapse the pocket. Is solid against the run.

Glover has had double digit sacks before at DT. Is solid against the run.

Ellis has always applied decent pressure. Is solid against the run.

Burnett has solid cover skills, showed ability to blitz in college. Plays the run well.

Nguyen solid in coverage and in pursuit.

Ware edge rusher who is showing some coverage skills. Played run well in college.

Newman was much better as a rookie in press coverage in a man scheme.

Henry big corner with good coverage skills.

FS ? Davis has shown some ball hawking skills, Glenn could come in in certain sitautions where we play with 3 corners moving Henry to FS.

Williams can play closer with improved corners, where he can help the run defense, short passes, and blitz.

I see a solid 4 man line with great push up the middle, 3 solid blitzers, and 4 players that hold up well in coverage.

 

[ravidubey]

I see this as a real probability; it's just I see Ware cheating up from a standard 4-3 stance and dropping his hand in the dirt at the last moment.

 

[Billy Bullocks]

In Nickel I think that Spears will move inside, if we are playing a 4-2-5, not the 3-3-5, and it will be Ware, Ellis, Glover, and Spears...get our best pass rushers out there

 

[rw54]

I've said all along put your best 11 out there.

Spears has the size to bull rush and engage multiple blockers. Is solid against the run.

Ferguson will force double teams and can collapse the pocket. Is solid against the run.

Glover has had double digit sacks before at DT. Is solid against the run.

Ellis has always applied decent pressure. Is solid against the run.

Burnett has solid cover skills, showed ability to blitz in college. Plays the run well.

Nguyen solid in coverage and in pursuit.

Ware edge rusher who is showing some coverage skills. Played run well in college.

Newman was much better as a rookie in press coverage in a man scheme.

Henry big corner with good coverage skills.

FS ? Davis has shown some ball hawking skills, Glenn could come in in certain sitautions where we play with 3 corners moving Henry to FS.

Williams can play closer with improved corners, where he can help the run defense, short passes, and blitz.

I see a solid 4 man line with great push up the middle, 3 solid blitzers, and 4 players that hold up well in coverage.

I really like this line up. If you move Ware around to favorable matchups before the snap and everyone else plays straight up, I think thats to much talent to keep out. Let the LB's and Roy clean up behind that and we have a big, talented, physical defense. Bring 5 everytime and the odds are that one or more of those guys will win their one-on-one matchups everytime. They also have the speed to chase things down. I remember Jimme Jones used to say the early '90's line rushed the QB on every play and used their athletic ability to react to the run. It worked then, lets try it again.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Actually I remember Washington in the mid 70's running plays from a 5-man defensive line. These were 5 legit defensive lineman. If I remember Manny Sistrunk played the NT.

 

[Echo9]

So, you don't think he can play a 4-3 LB at all?

Nope, I don't.

Granted, I could be wrong. I'm no coach, but the responsibilities of a 4-3 LB are different from that of a 3-4 LB, especially his OLB spot.

IN the 3-4, the position Ware is slated to play is much closer to a (4-3) DE than a LB, just that he's standing up instead of in a 3 point stance.

Ware's kind of a tweener, and as I see it there are different kinds of tweeners.

Goes like this (going from big size/strength to quickness and coverage ability):

3-4 DT (or NT)
tweener between 3-4 NT and 4-3 DT (interchangable with the 1 technique guys like Ferg, less so with Glover)
4-3 DT (Glover
the tweener between the 4-3 DT and 3-4 DE (Ratliff)
the 3-4 DE Spears, Canty
the tweener between the 3-4 DE and 4-3 DE
the 4-3 DE (Ellis?)
the tweener between the 4-3 DE and 3-4 OLB (Ware)
the 3-4 ILB (Burnett)
the 4-3 OLB ( Shanle)
the 4-3 MLB ( Dat )
the SS

Ware's strength is in rushing the passer, rather than dropping into coverage. The move one step either way could be done I think, but two or more steps plays againsts a players strengths.

Of course I could just be talking out of my *** here, but that how I see it.

 

[Echo9]

I agree 100%.



Good point.



Me too ... that's why I see us having the personnel to run anything between the 3-4 to the 5-2 ... If he can play LB and DE, why not?

I'm telling you guys, this isn't going to be a one-look defense. It's going to be the most unpredictable defense in the league.

Now this I agree with. It's all about unpredicability. I just see Ware moving up to DE in the 4-3, where I think he'd be a Dwight Freeney type force.

 

[blindzebra]

Nope, I don't.

Granted, I could be wrong. I'm no coach, but the responsibilities of a 4-3 LB are different from that of a 3-4 LB, especially his OLB spot.

IN the 3-4, the position Ware is slated to play is much closer to a (4-3) DE than a LB, just that he's standing up instead of in a 3 point stance.

Ware's kind of a tweener, and as I see it there are different kinds of tweeners.

Goes like this (going from big size/strength to quickness and coverage ability):

3-4 DT (or NT)
tweener between 3-4 NT and 4-3 DT (interchangable with the 1 technique guys like Ferg, less so with Glover)
4-3 DT (Glover
the tweener between the 4-3 DT and 3-4 DE (Ratliff)
the 3-4 DE Spears, Canty
the tweener between the 3-4 DE and 4-3 DE
the 4-3 DE (Ellis?)
the tweener between the 4-3 DE and 3-4 OLB (Ware)
the 3-4 ILB (Burnett)
the 4-3 OLB ( Shanle)
the 4-3 MLB ( Dat )
the SS

Ware's strength is in rushing the passer, rather than dropping into coverage. The move one step either way could be done I think, but two or more steps plays againsts a players strengths.

Of course I could just be talking out of my *** here, but that how I see it.

He's not rushing the passer on every play in the 3-4. He will play the run...just like a 4-3 WLB...and he will have coverage responsibilities...just like a 4-3 WLB.

FYI, Burnett is slotted at strongside LB, Shanle/James/Fowler/O'Neil/Goolsby are competing inside.

 

[LaTunaNostra]

Nope, I don't.

Granted, I could be wrong. I'm no coach, but the responsibilities of a 4-3 LB are different from that of a 3-4 LB, especially his OLB spot.

IN the 3-4, the position Ware is slated to play is much closer to a (4-3) DE than a LB, just that he's standing up instead of in a 3 point stance.

Ware's kind of a tweener, and as I see it there are different kinds of tweeners.

Goes like this (going from big size/strength to quickness and coverage ability):

3-4 DT (or NT)
tweener between 3-4 NT and 4-3 DT (interchangable with the 1 technique guys like Ferg, less so with Glover)
4-3 DT (Glover
the tweener between the 4-3 DT and 3-4 DE (Ratliff)
the 3-4 DE Spears, Canty
the tweener between the 3-4 DE and 4-3 DE
the 4-3 DE (Ellis?)
the tweener between the 4-3 DE and 3-4 OLB (Ware)
the 3-4 ILB (Burnett)
the 4-3 OLB ( Shanle)
the 4-3 MLB ( Dat )
the SS

Ware's strength is in rushing the passer, rather than dropping into coverage. The move one step either way could be done I think, but two or more steps plays againsts a players strengths.

Of course I could just be talking out of my *** here, but that how I see it.

And the tweener between the one biscuit short LB and the SS (Roy)

We've got most of it covered anyway.

And your layout is encouraging..it's why multiple (and REALLY multiple) fronts can work here.