The Ayodele "Roughing" call

[Stautner]

I know it is not college but you still can't lower your head and shoulders into a guys back and head while he is laying on the ground.

That is called unneccessary roughness.

Read the rule I posted earlier about helmet to helmet contact.

This is questionable that there was any helmet to helmet contact - one angle I saw looked like there was but another angle seemed pretty clearly to show there wasn't.

Nevertheless, same thing applies - it was a close call and difficult to make and close calls happen both for and gainst teams every week. This one particular close call is not a big deal.

 

[Rack]

This is questionable that there was any helmet to helmet contact - one angle I saw looked like there was but another angle seemed pretty clearly to show there wasn't.

Nevertheless, same thing applies - it was a close call and difficult to make and close calls happen both for and gainst teams every week. This one particular close call is not a big deal.

This I agree with.

And for the record, there was never any intent to be "harsh" on the refs. That had nothing to do with it. It was merely a debate on whether the call was right or wrong.


The ref thought Lloyd was down. The ref was wrong. Therefore, the call was wrong. It happens.

 

[tomson75]

I will agree with this to a point.
The only thing I disagree with you in that regard is that I believe it's the NFL's fault rather than the refs - they are calling the game as instructed by a league that has become overly soft due to a desire to protect big draw players that bring in the fans.

Actually, I do agree with this. NFL = BAD, Tri-Nations = GOOD.

I'm moving to New Zealand.

 

[Stautner]

This I agree with.

And for the record, there was never any intent to be "harsh" on the refs. That had nothing to do with it. It was merely a debate on whether the call was right or wrong.


The ref thought Lloyd was down. The ref was wrong. Therefore, the call was wrong. It happens.

Then what were you were you arguing with me about? I never said the refs made the right call ......

Oh well, what's past is past I guess

 

[Rack]

Then what were you were you arguing with me about? I never said the refs made the right call ......

Oh well, what's past is past I guess

I dunno.

I don't pay attention to the poster I quote when I debate something, I just pay attention to the post itself.


The officiating in the NFL is getting worse though. I stopped watching the NBA completely because of the horrible officiating (even now the NFL is nowhere near that bad).

That NFL official dude that comes out on NFL Network sometimes and Tags haven't/didn't admit to the severity of the problem. They just keep adding/changing more rules which makes it even more difficult on the officials' jobs.

 

[Stautner]

I dunno.

I don't pay attention to the poster I quote when I debate something, I just pay attention to the post itself.


The officiating in the NFL is getting worse though. I stopped watching the NBA completely because of the horrible officiating (even now the NFL is nowhere near that bad).

That NFL official dude that comes out on NFL Network sometimes and Tags haven't/didn't admit to the severity of the problem. They just keep adding/changing more rules which makes it even more difficult on the officials' jobs.

I easily agree that the officiating seems to be getting worse and worse, but I think it's for different reasons than the NBA.

While some of it in the NFL has to do with being overly protective of players, it just seems to be that a general inconsistency has sunk in, with officials even missing seemingly obvious calls at times.

With the NBA it's all about trying to create a flashier product for the audience. They let offensive players get away with a lot (travelling is the most obvious thing) and restrict defensive play. The funny thing is that 20 years ago team scoring averages were much higher than they are now, despite all the NBA's efforts. I blame that to a large degree on the NBA rule changes displaying poor teamwork, poor shot selection and overall lack of fundamental play which over the years has infected our youth and eventually affected play at all levels.

 

[firehawk350]

They called unnecessary roughness, which is typically only called after the play has been blown dead.

Your dead wrong about that. If the QB releases the ball and like 3 seconds later a defensive linemen just plows over a linemen that is just standing there, waiting for the play to be over, that's unnecessary roughness, even though the play might still be going on...
As far as Lloyd diving, there's nothing wrong with that, if you had a LBer two feet away and you were struggling to get up, you would just dive down too. There was no way he was getting another yard and trying to might have lost him the football, so just dive then.

 

[peplaw06]

Your dead wrong about that. If the QB releases the ball and like 3 seconds later a defensive linemen just plows over a linemen that is just standing there, waiting for the play to be over, that's unnecessary roughness, even though the play might still be going on...

Ever hear of "Unsportsmanlike Conduct?" There's a difference.

 

[Stautner]

Ever hear of "Unsportsmanlike Conduct?" There's a difference.

It doesn't matter if he gave the best example, you know perfectly well that a play doesn't have to be dead for there to be an unnecessary roughness call. That's what a helmet to helmet hit on the QB is or leading with the helmet on a tackle.

 

[peplaw06]

It doesn't matter if he gave the best example, you know perfectly well that a play doesn't have to be dead for there to be an unnecessary roughness call. That's what a helmet to helmet hit on the QB is or leading with the helmet on a tackle.

Funny that's why I threw that little 4 syllable word "typically" in there. 95% of the time when the ref says the words "unnecessary roughness" the infraction penalized took place after the play.

 

[superpunk]

Typiclee has three syllables.

 

[peplaw06]

so does comfterble

 

[Danny White]

I never would have thought this thread would have gone nine pages!

 

[Stautner]

Funny that's why I threw that little 4 syllable word "typically" in there. 95% of the time when the ref says the words "unnecessary roughness" the infraction penalized took place after the play.

I was responding to your comment about unsportsmanlike conduct being different than unnecessary roughness - the word "typically" was not in that post.

Nevertheless, it seems you are the one who is getting the two confused.

Unsportsmanlike Conduct is "typically" called for things like excessive celebration, taunting, fighting ...... things that happen AFTER the play is over.

Unnecessary Roughness is called at least as much for things that happen during the play, like spearing and helmet to helmet contact and hitting a QB who is attempting to slide, as it is for anything that happens after the play.

 

[Yeagermeister]

I never would have thought this thread would have gone nine pages!

No kidding....I was just thinking are they still arguing about that?

 

[peplaw06]

I was responding to your comment about unsportsmanlike conduct being different than unnecessary roughness - the word "typically" was not in that post.

Nevertheless, it seems you are the one who is getting the two confused.

Unsportsmanlike Conduct is "typically" called for things like excessive celebration, taunting, fighting ...... things that happen AFTER the play is over.

Unnecessary Roughness is called at least as much for things that happen during the play, like spearing and helmet to helmet contact and hitting a QB who is attempting to slide, as it is for anything that happens after the play.

Good god man, how long am I gonna have to babysit you?

Unnecessary roughness is almost NEVER called when somebody tackles a ballcarrier, unless it's after the play. I can't go through every single solitary scenario. But for those you mentioned... If a ballcarrier gets tackled illegally, the refs have specific calls for the type of hit... i.e. spearing, helmet to helmet for QBs and defenseless WRs, launching, etc. If a QB is attempting a slide, the play is dead as soon as he begins his slide, so any unnecessary roughness call would still be AFTER the play.

If a guy, not a ballcarrier, gets hit away from the play, but during the play, that's typically going to be unsportsmanlike conduct. Or say a tackler clotheslines a ballcarrier, or picks him up and violently throws him down, or something else that is blatant... the call is typically going to be unsportsmanlike conduct.

And OF COURSE they can call unsportsmanlike conduct for things happening after the play... celebration, taunting, fighting... "Unnecessary roughness" wouldn't exactly fit for excessive celebration would it?? At least I don't think the NFL's reason for penalizing Chad Johnson or TO's celebrations is because they are "too rough" on the opposing team...

Let me bottom line it for you. If unnecessary roughness is called, it's almost always for something that happened after the play. I qualify it because I've never seen it called for a legal hit on a ballcarrier during the play, though a ref somewhere, sometime, MAY have called it. Ayodele's hit was legal; typically they wouldn't call unnecessary roughness on a legal hit on a ballcarrier, unless the hit was after the play. Therefore I believe the ref thought the hit was after the play, which IMO is clearly wrong. I thought it was wrong when it happened in real time, and after watching replays I still think it was wrong.

 

[Stautner]

Good god man, how long am I gonna have to babysit you?

Unnecessary roughness is almost NEVER called when somebody tackles a ballcarrier, unless it's after the play. I can't go through every single solitary scenario. But for those you mentioned... If a ballcarrier gets tackled illegally, the refs have specific calls for the type of hit... i.e. spearing, helmet to helmet for QBs and defenseless WRs, launching, etc. If a QB is attempting a slide, the play is dead as soon as he begins his slide, so any unnecessary roughness call would still be AFTER the play.

If a guy, not a ballcarrier, gets hit away from the play, but during the play, that's typically going to be unsportsmanlike conduct. Or say a tackler clotheslines a ballcarrier, or picks him up and violently throws him down, or something else that is blatant... the call is typically going to be unsportsmanlike conduct.

And OF COURSE they can call unsportsmanlike conduct for things happening after the play... celebration, taunting, fighting... "Unnecessary roughness" wouldn't exactly fit for excessive celebration would it?? At least I don't think the NFL's reason for penalizing Chad Johnson or TO's celebrations is because they are "too rough" on the opposing team...

Let me bottom line it for you. If unnecessary roughness is called, it's almost always for something that happened after the play. I qualify it because I've never seen it called for a legal hit on a ballcarrier during the play, though a ref somewhere, sometime, MAY have called it. Ayodele's hit was legal; typically they wouldn't call unnecessary roughness on a legal hit on a ballcarrier, unless the hit was after the play. Therefore I believe the ref thought the hit was after the play, which IMO is clearly wrong. I thought it was wrong when it happened in real time, and after watching replays I still think it was wrong.

Get over your false sense of superiority, pull your head out and face reality. You're about to end up red faced and embarassed because the ignorance you accused me of is about to backfire in your face .......

Let's start with a few calls often heard by officials in the NFL:

"UNNECESSARY ROUGHNESS, NUMBER 74 - ILLEGAL BLOW TO THE HEAD".

"UNNECESSARY ROUGHNESS, NUMBER 24 - LEADING WITH THE HELMET".

You see, what you blindly refuse to recognize is that "Unnecessary Roughness" is not a specific penalty, it's the general NFL rules heading encompassing ALL penalties called for reckless and dangerous actions forbidden under NFL rules.

Leading with the helmet, late hits, helmet to helmet contact and other similar infractions all fall under the "Unnecessary Roughness" rule - the specific names are merely used to identify the action that was "unnecessarily rough".

This is the same as "Taunting" and "excessive celebration" falling under the heading of "Unsportsmanlike Conduct".

By the way, in 2005 the NFL Rules Committee expanded the Unnecessary Roughness rule to include "unnecessarily running or diving into an opponent who is out of the play or should not have reasonably anticipated such contact." ACCORDINGLY, that is NOT an Unsportsmanlike Conduct penalty like you said.

Now, I sure hope your foot tastes good - that is if you have time to notice as you fall off your pedestal ...............................

 

[joseephuss]

I never would have thought this thread would have gone nine pages!

That is what I was thinking. I opened the thread just to see how long it had gotten. From the title of the thread, I could not believe it was more than 3 pages. There is no mention of Blesoe, Romo, Henson, Carter, Hutchinson or Nors in the title. I don't know what is going on.

 

[Danny White]

That is what I was thinking. I opened the thread just to see how long it had gotten. From the title of the thread, I could not believe it was more than 3 pages. There is no mention of Blesoe, Romo, Henson, Carter, Hutchinson or Nors in the title. I don't know what is going on.

It's funny, this thread is twice as long as the one on Extremeskins where the focus is on the wussiness of one of their prize Free Agent acquisitions... I subject I'd have thought would be much more controversial.

So what do you think?

Wuss Move to flop
or
Smart Move to get down​

discuss

 

[Byebye723]

Wow ...I can't believe some ppl don't think this is a penalty.

It doesn't matter if Lloyd was down or not...


If a player gives up on the play and is just laying down or kneeling...do you think you are supposed to

1) Touch him down
2) Yay - free hit ... lets aim for his head!

And even if it is difficult to do (1) if you aim for his head I guarentee that every official in the NFL will call that. In fact you can see 3 flags fly in after the hit.