the Belichek theory? has your opinion changed

[Kalyan]

This is exactly what I have been saying. I just don't understand why nobody ever questions Zimmer and his schemes, expecially in the media.

I think it's become clear that Parcells was the motivator, among other things, while Belichick was the master of the schemes in their haydays together.

I do think Parcells "can" win without Belichick. But he needs a strong, highly capable defensive coordinator by his side. That much I do believe.

I don't think he has that here. Zimmer is ok at best. Even for those that don't hate the guy's schemes, I can't imagine anyone arguing he's an innovator or among the best DCs in the league. He's just not. He's just a guy, at best.

While I'm on that topic, Zimmer strikes me as a guy that will "coach up" bad talent and make them functional. He can dial up some smoke and mirrors and make an ok unit look pretty strong. But he can't cross over to that next level, which is of the dominant/feared sort. I think it's pretty clear the talent's in place right now on the defensive side. In the past, I marveled how he took sometimes bad players and made them look solid. But give him a great one and he doesn't know how to creatively use his talents.

It's always something with him. He either doesn't have enough corners, a good enough free safety, enough pass rushers, a run-stopping guy, etc. I have a hard time believing a defense like San Diego's truly has NO weakness whatsoever. Every team does. It just seems like Zimmer-coached squads are fairly easily exposed in comparison.

 

[GTaylor]

Fire Zimmer and hire Crennell

Interesting analogy, hire a Parcells protege who failed in Cleveland with little to work with. You think we'd have the same success as the Pats?

 

[Yeagermeister]

Interesting analogy, hire a Parcells protege who failed in Cleveland with little to work with. You think we'd have the same success as the Pats?

He can't get Bellicheck so hire the next best thing. He has to be better than what we have.

 

[superpunk]

He can't get Bellicheck so hire the next best thing. He has to be better than what we have.

Look what he's done for Wimbley this year. 10 sacks, and nowhere near the hero worship Merriman got last year. Wimbley needs a dance. I'd love to have someone who could unlock that potential on our team. Because Cleveland is a far cry from Dallas on talent.

 

[odog422]

I think it's become clear that Parcells was the motivator, among other things, while Belichick was the master of the schemes in their haydays together.

I do think Parcells "can" win without Belichick. But he needs a strong, highly capable defensive coordinator by his side. That much I do believe.

I don't think he has that here. Zimmer is ok at best. Even for those that don't hate the guy's schemes, I can't imagine anyone arguing he's an innovator or among the best DCs in the league. He's just not. He's just a guy, at best.

While I'm on that topic, Zimmer strikes me as a guy that will "coach up" bad talent and make them functional. He can dial up some smoke and mirrors and make an ok unit look pretty strong. But he can't cross over to that next level, which is of the dominant/feared sort. I think it's pretty clear the talent's in place right now on the defensive side. In the past, I marveled how he took sometimes bad players and made them look solid. But give him a great one and he doesn't know how to creatively use his talents.

It's always something with him. He either doesn't have enough corners, a good enough free safety, enough pass rushers, a run-stopping guy, etc. I have a hard time believing a defense like San Diego's truly has NO weakness whatsoever. Every team does. It just seems like Zimmer-coached squads are fairly easily exposed in comparison.

Great post and I agree 100% percent.

Just to add my .02... I've always subscribed to the theory that because Parcells isn't a fan of the blitz, that he was a primary cause for Zimmer's schemes to lack the aggressiveness and attacking style we more freely associate with the 3-4 today.

However, I've changed on this Dale and I'm with you. I think because Zimmer is what he is, as described in your post, THAT is the reason we dont have an attacking scheme. As a coordinator, to add innovation, or get Parcells to do what he normally wouldn't, you have to believe in what you're doing, or want to do, and bring it to Parcells before he will use it. Zimmer, because of who he is, can't do that. He can coach fundamentals, but he brings nothing extra. Just who he is.

I think the biggest example of Zimmer's lack of recognition and innovation is to simply look at when we blitz. What is the percentage we actually generate immediate pressure or get a sack as opposed to being stoned because our blitzers run to their "pickups?"

 

[Rampage]

parcells sucks. this isn't the 80s anymore

 

[yesfan]

Parcells has turned 4 teams around and that
includes Dallas.Look at all the teams this year
going to the playoffs,a year ago 9-7 didn't cut
it but this year does.Of the his four years in Dallas,
3 are winning seasons,2 are playoff teams.Lets not
forget, three 5-11 seasons before Bill. I think BB also
had all of Parcells coaches when he left New England,
BB didn't have anyone in Cleveland,which was a complete
failure.No doubt Belichek is a great defensive mind,Parcells
turns teams into competitors and this team now has a future
because of him.

 

[Doomsday]

Most great coaches are surrounded by good assistants how good would Jimmy have been with Dave and Norv?

That said I think Bill has gotten a bit soft in his old age, I keep hearing a ringing in my ear and its a quote from Roy where he said "Bill's bark is worse then his bite, hes really a big ole teddy bear". Would any of his former players have uttered those words about him? I highly doubt it.

 

[Rampage]

Most great coaches are surrounded by good assistants how good would Jimmy have been with Dave and Norv?

That said I think Bill has gotten a bit soft in his old age, I keep hearing a ringing in my ear and its a quote from Roy where he said "Bill's bark is worse then his bite, hes really a big ole teddy bear". Would any of his former players have uttered those words about him? I highly doubt it.

damn right he's soft. he was kissing every player in sight at the end of that carolina game

 

[Doomsday]

I think it's become clear that Parcells was the motivator, among other things, while Belichick was the master of the schemes in their haydays together.

I do think Parcells "can" win without Belichick. But he needs a strong, highly capable defensive coordinator by his side. That much I do believe.

I don't think he has that here. Zimmer is ok at best. Even for those that don't hate the guy's schemes, I can't imagine anyone arguing he's an innovator or among the best DCs in the league. He's just not. He's just a guy, at best.

While I'm on that topic, Zimmer strikes me as a guy that will "coach up" bad talent and make them functional. He can dial up some smoke and mirrors and make an ok unit look pretty strong. But he can't cross over to that next level, which is of the dominant/feared sort. I think it's pretty clear the talent's in place right now on the defensive side. In the past, I marveled how he took sometimes bad players and made them look solid. But give him a great one and he doesn't know how to creatively use his talents.

It's always something with him. He either doesn't have enough corners, a good enough free safety, enough pass rushers, a run-stopping guy, etc. I have a hard time believing a defense like San Diego's truly has NO weakness whatsoever. Every team does. It just seems like Zimmer-coached squads are fairly easily exposed in comparison.

I agree with almost everything you posted. The only thing I might argue with a bit is that the talent is in place on the defensive side of the ball. If that were the case you would think someone would on occassion make a big play. Roy, Ware and Newman are all good players and you see it because they are capable of making plays that can change the coarse of a game. I dont see that with any one else on the defense. Guys like Spears, Canty etc. never seem to make any big plays or show glimpses of the talent most of us thought they had. Fergy is serviceable and solid vs the run but he cant collapse the pocket.

 

[AtlCB]

This thread is idiotic. Everyone is looking for a reason to bash Parcells. Parcells cannot win without Belichek, but Belichek can win without Crennel and Weis? The Patriots have gone downhill the past couple of years without Crennel and Weis. I think Belichek is a very good coach, but if you are going to try to prove that Belichek is better than Parcells based on his success with Belichek vs. without, than you should honestly apply the same standard to Belichek with and without his key assistants.

 

[ajk23az]

Now that Crennel is about to be fired and failed miserably in Cleveland

I dont think he will be fired after just one season. The browns won how many games in 05/06? 4? 5?

You have to give the guy a chance. Like i can see if the Cardinals fire Dennis Green after 3 years at the helm but you have to give Crennel a chance, imo.

 

[NorthTexan95]

This thread is idiotic. Everyone is looking for a reason to bash Parcells. Parcells cannot win without Belichek, but Belichek can win without Crennel and Weis? The Patriots have gone downhill the past couple of years without Crennel and Weis. I think Belichek is a very good coach, but if you are going to try to prove that Belichek is better than Parcells based on his success with Belichek vs. without, than you should honestly apply the same standard to Belichek with and without his key assistants.

Bingo! We have a winner!

 

[Da Hammer]

At first i hated this theory because well i thought it was ludicrous but after all the success that BB continues to have and here with Parcells we still cant even win a playoff game well it certainly makes you think long and hard. I certainly agree now with the poster that said Parcells was the motivator while BB was the brains because you can just tell with Zimmer and Parcells that they dont even know the meaning of being smart. They preach every single day but they dont even know what it means which is sad...

 

[cowboys19]

or it could be, Parcells made all those guys who they are now......

while the teacher himself lost his edge, i've seen it numerous times.

I have no question, back in Parcells glory days he was a better coach than Belichick is now.

IMHO


just look at all of Parcells guys.........
pretty much all of them are sucessfull

 

[alancdc]

I remember two years ago, fans were debating that Bill Bellichek was the reason for Parcells past success and the reason Parcells struggled is because he lacked Bellichek at his side. I also recall fans saying that Bellichek only won because he had Romeo Crennel and Charley Weiss. Now that Crennel is about to be fired and failed miserably in Cleveland while Bellichek's defense and team is still one of the best in the NFL, have you changed your mind in regards to the Bellichek theory. Let's be honest, this was the year, the Patriots were supposed to rebuild due to all of their losses and they are considered the second best team in the NFL behind the Chargers at the moment. Even Charlie Weiss has struggled in big games at Notre Dame.

I don't know man? Aren't these coordinators influenced and tought by the HC? You gotta have players. I don't think it is fair to say Crennel has failed in Cleveland. While he has some weapons on offense he has no QB, and a bad D. In today's salary cap era it is hard to get well "quick". Also, talk about injuries....They lost what 3 centers before the season? Should they be better than they are, maybe, but not ready to call him a failure. Weiss needs players at ND as well. I'm not nocking Bellichek, but I don't think Bill's accomplishments can be just laid at his feet either.

 

[alancdc]

or it could be, Parcells made all those guys who they are now......

while the teacher himself lost his edge, i've seen it numerous times.

I have no question, back in Parcells glory days he was a better coach than Belichick is now.

IMHO


just look at all of Parcells guys.........
pretty much all of them are sucessfull

PRETTY SOUND REASONING.

 

[CanadianCowboysFan]

I have ALWAYS adhered to the theory that BP was made great by Bill Belichek. To say otherwise is to just deny reality. Belichek won 3-out-of-4 SBs w/o BP and BP can't even win 1 PO game w/o Belichek. It's obvious...

Let's wait to see if mumbles is able to win anything without Weis and Crennell.