The biggest key to the "New England" offense working

[Miller]

Again, let me reiterate that it's not all about speed.

Jason Witten's ability to get open isn't about speed. It's about running good routes, being where he is supposed to, and using good technique and body leverage in getting open.

Escobar is much faster than his 40 time on the field, and you can see that when he plays.

He doesn't need to be as fast as Hernandez to beat coverage and catch passes.

No he doesn't but he isn't Hernandez and having 2 of the same guy on either side isn't exactly causing matchup issues...that's what NE does when a shifier Hernandez. You can match LBs in the NFL on guys who can't get separation. All I'm saying is that this automatic assumption that he is our Hernandez is completely off. Two different players completely. If just plugging in 2 TEs with good hands caused matchup issues every team would do it but it takes a special talent and it takes a special system.

 

[Galian Beast]

No he doesn't but he isn't Hernandez and having 2 of the same guy on either side isn't exactly causing matchup issues...that's what NE does when a shifier Hernandez. You can match LBs in the NFL on guys who can't get separation. All I'm saying is that this automatic assumption that he is our Hernandez is completely off. Two different players completely. If just plugging in 2 TEs with good hands caused matchup issues every team would do it but it takes a special talent and it takes a special system.

Having two of the same guy doesn't create match up issues?

How did you come to this conclusion? It has no baring on who or what they are. The only match up issue is created based on who they are playing against.

The only comparison to Hernandez is that he would be a primarily pass catching tight end. I don't think anyone has said they are similar in playing style.

The reality is that Escobar was much more productive in his college career than Hernandez.

 

[Galian Beast]

It was discussed on GAC.

The gist was that Dallas would use their TEs the way NO used Watson and Graham.

That's funny given that Watson has never played a down for the Saints...

 

[khiladi]

Actually, their interior OL play has and is their biggest strength. They give Brady plenty of time to stay in the pocket and actually step into his throws. The Giants beat them in the SUper Bowl, because Tuck just disrupted the interior OL all day and Brady wasn't afforded the time he normally was. It was how Wade, with the Chargers, forced Brady into 4 or 5 INTs.

People talk about Aikman being great because of a line, and never give him his due, well, it's the exact opposite for Brady.

 

[Miller]

Having two of the same guy doesn't create match up issues?

How did you come to this conclusion? It has no baring on who or what they are. The only match up issue is created based on who they are playing against.

The only comparison to Hernandez is that he would be a primarily pass catching tight end. I don't think anyone has said they are similar in playing style.

The reality is that Escobar was much more productive in his college career than Hernandez.

Almost every article out there has said he is our version of Hernandez. My point being that you can't just say that because you draft a TE that can catch. Hernandez is a joker type that lines up in the slot and has some speed and moves where he is a mismatch for LBs and when in the hurry up, teams can't switch guys in to compensate. We have had a 2nd TE before that can catch and we couldn't create these match ups issues. Automatically saying Escobar puts us into this same realm, to me, is just putting the cart WAY before the horse. We've tried 3rd WRs, we've tried Bennett. Yet we only ran the hurry up when behind last year and never experimented with running it ala NE. So I just don't get how we are automatically set to run this now. To me this isn't some natural progression that Garrett has been striving for...it's more an ultimatum that we change. If it was so easy to copy teams would be doing the same. People have to remember Escobar is a guy from a lower competition school, so I'm not going to assume we are set. There is a curve.

 

[Zimmy Lives]

That's funny given that Watson has never played a down for the Saints...

I think he meant Thomas; Watson was mentioned as this year's Thomas.

Missed most of the discussion yesterday on GAC but they were implying that Dallas would use their TEs more like the Saints and not like the Pats. Between Thomas and Graham the TEs scored 13 TDs.

I'm not sure how they came to that opinion but that is what was discussed.

 

[Miller]

I think he meant Thomas; Watson was mentioned as this year's Thomas.

Missed most of the discussion yesterday on GAC but they were implying that Dallas would use their TEs more like the Saints and not like the Pats. Between Thomas and Graham the TEs scored 13 TDs.

I'm not sure how they came to that opinion but that is what was discussed.

This makes more sense...especially Red Zone targets.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Part of what Stretch was saying was that New England actually runs 3 WRs a lot and rotates in Gronk and Hernandez more than you realize. New Orleans runs two TEs at the same time more.

Not sure if that's accurate, but that was his reasoning.

Personally, I think it works for both teams because Gronk and Graham are true freaks, players with incrediblly rare size and speed. When those players get hurt, the two-TE doesn't look so special. So once again, it's more about the players than the formation.

 

[EJ Blue]

I'm also from New England, and the reality is it's not that easy to find two premier tight ends first of all.

Second it does have a lot to do with this offensive line, and it had a lot to do with Wes Welker drawing extra coverage.

It's not just Tom Brady. Patriots are about to struggle with their identity this coming year. Especially with those guys dealing with injuries...

Both those guys dealth with injuries since they came into the league and they were still a top offense regardless. Albeit it bit them in the come playoff time.

 

[Idgit]

Hearing it called a 'New England offense' is going to get old, quick.

We've been looking for a complementary TE2 since 2006. And we run the two TE sets as much as anybody in the NFC. Given how much we run it, getting a third TE makes ok sense, to me.

Escobar's an interesting player, because he's a legitimate Y receiver for us. That'll be a plus on third downs. And he's tall enough to be a significant red zone threat, so he helps on those downs with both the rushing and the passing formations. Given how significant a problem the red zone has been for us alone, I think fans should be pretty happy to see us devote a second round pick to addressing a big problem. He'll help a lot more than another OG would in those situations, for sure.

 

[percyhoward]

Given how significant a problem the red zone has been for us alone, I think fans should be pretty happy to see us devote a second round pick to addressing a big problem. He'll help a lot more than another OG would in those situations, for sure.

Just after the season, I asked "what is the quicker, more likely fix for this team--an overhaul of the OL or a legitimate 4th receiving threat (besides Bryant, Witten, and Austin)?"

For me, this draft answered that question.

 

[Idgit]

Just after the season, I asked "what is the quicker, more likely fix for this team--an overhaul of the OL or a legitimate 4th receiving threat (besides Bryant, Witten, and Austin)?"

For me, this draft answered that question.

Yep. For sure. They addressed the issue in the middle of the line in the passing game, and then added red zone weapons.

And I think the team believes it did more to improve the running game this weekend than most fans believe is likely. I hope they did, because it's been a huge issue for us for the last three seasons.

 

[Hoofbite]

Hearing it called a 'New England offense' is going to get old, quick.

We've been looking for a complementary TE2 since 2006. And we run the two TE sets as much as anybody in the NFC. Given how much we run it, getting a third TE makes ok sense, to me.

Escobar's an interesting player, because he's a legitimate Y receiver for us. That'll be a plus on third downs. And he's tall enough to be a significant red zone threat, so he helps on those downs with both the rushing and the passing formations. Given how significant a problem the red zone has been for us alone, I think fans should be pretty happy to see us devote a second round pick to addressing a big problem. He'll help a lot more than another OG would in those situations, for sure.

I dunno.

Bennett never really got that many snaps. Certainly got less than I expected based on actually calling it a 2TE system. Not sure he cracked 50%.

I'd imagine there are a couple of teams who for whatever reason have some no names out there quite a bit.

 

[Zimmy Lives]

Hearing it called a 'New England offense' is going to get old, quick.

We've been looking for a complementary TE2 since 2006. And we run the two TE sets as much as anybody in the NFC. Given how much we run it, getting a third TE makes ok sense, to me.

Escobar's an interesting player, because he's a legitimate Y receiver for us. That'll be a plus on third downs. And he's tall enough to be a significant red zone threat, so he helps on those downs with both the rushing and the passing formations. Given how significant a problem the red zone has been for us alone, I think fans should be pretty happy to see us devote a second round pick to addressing a big problem. He'll help a lot more than another OG would in those situations, for sure.

This. To me it seems like the options are endless as long as Tony has time.

 

[CATCH17]

Yep. For sure. They addressed the issue in the middle of the line in the passing game, and then added red zone weapons.

And I think the team believes it did more to improve the running game this weekend than most fans believe is likely. I hope they did, because it's been a huge issue for us for the last three seasons.

They helped themselves more when it comes to beating a blitz. I don't think the run game is drastically going to be improved.

 

[Miller]

This. To me it seems like the options are endless as long as Tony has time.

Well doesn't that bed the question..why not get more O-line before getting more weapons...chicken and egg thing here.

 

[Zimmy Lives]

Well doesn't that bed the question..why not get more O-line before getting more weapons...chicken and egg thing here.

Agreed. I hope, with a second year, the o-linemen can perfect Callahan's two- step otherwise Tony will be dancing the cha cha in the backfield rather than hitting all his weapons.