The Case for Zeke continues

[Fla Cowpoke]

The running game closes out games only if you can convert first downs. It does not necessarily lead to ball control and the defense off the field. Ball control is achieved by making first downs and it's easier to do so in the passing game down in and down out.

The case against Zeke:

1: He hasn't even been the best back in the BCS the last 2 years. Fournette, Gurley and Gordon have all been better.
2: You get no discount from free agency and would be paying him top dollar.
3: He is not a physical back instead relying on finesse.
4: This a deep RB draft with good prospects into the 4th round as opposed to the opportunity cost of the other positions.
5: He is not a team player who will use the media to negotiate when he doesn't get his way.
6: He has a party reputation. Bosa was told to move away from him as roommate last offseason.
7: We already have a 1000 yard rusher and depth.

Hard to argue with that to be honest.

 

[Fla Cowpoke]

1. Gurley was drafted 10 and Gordon at the end of the round. I actually put Zeke on par with or slightly ahead of Gordon although I think Gordon is a better runner. Gordon and Zeke are a tier below the other two who also have power to their game. We are talking about player rankings here and the slotting is zero sum.
2. The 4th pick gets ~$6m. The OPOTY the year before got $7m and that is what Martin got. I'm assuming Zeke does well in my initial comments because if he busts then it just that much worse wasting all that money on a HB. As opposed to if Goff, Ramsey and Bosa hit and how much their counterparts get paid.
3. Show me the plays where he is pushing piles and show me one block where he drives his guy back. He is a wall off guy like Escobar except he's in college. Best I have seen is him running through arm tackles with the balance you talk about. I'm not saying he is weak but his strength is merely average.
4. You're missing the point. The DE and QB pickings are slim on the second day. You can find a runner who can contribute on day 3.
5. Sorry but most players have not questioned their coaches play calling to the press. Snitches get stitches.
6. That's fair in that nothing is certain but to say that it shouldn't be investigated just as thoroughly is wishcasting. It is a legitimate concern.
7. I'm not saying it's gravy but were comparing that to Carr, Moore, and Mayowa with worse behind them. DMC made all kinds of plays last year for us and was good on the pass protection. Morris we'll have to see but I think his last two years may be as much Gruden as it is anything. RB3 can be found on day 3.

I just love it when guys both bring their "a" games to a discussion....intelligent posts on both sides.

 

[Hardline]

Sorry but I stopped right there. Your numbers are way to high.

I almost stopped reading there but stopped here instead

3: He is not a physical back instead relying on finesse.

 

[TheFinisher]

Few things about Zeke...

1) If we take him, why the radical shift in philosophy from last off-season to this year? The rallying cry for not resigning Murray was, "we allocated resources in the OL so we don't NEED to invest significant resources into the RB position". Turning around the next off-season and spending the #4 overall pick on a runner would be absolutely baffling and re-affirm my belief that this FO has no real plan or vision in building a team, rather they make it up as they go.

2) It's common belief that you don't select a runner high in the draft unless they're special. I have a heard time buying into Zeke as special when he wouldn't even be the top RB on the board in the 2015 class (Gurley) or the 2017 class (Fournette). He's at BEST the 2nd best back in those classes, and one could make a strong argument that Gordon, Chubb, and Cook were/are better prospects. Selecting him at 4 this year would be getting sucked into the overhype of the flashiest player in an extremely unflashy class.

3) McFadden was the 4th leading rusher in the league last year. Morris had 750 yards. As it stands right now we have a backfield that rushed for nearly 2000 yards last year. Do we really need to blow the greatest draft resource we've had in 25 years on a luxury pick?

4) Drafting Zeke at 4 puts his contract over the next 5 years on an average of somewhere in the 5.5-6 Mil/yr range. That makes him the 7th highest paid RB the moment he enters the league with a top 5 guaranteed dollar amount. Seems to be an extremely poor way of taking advantage of the adjusted rookie contract scale.

 

[CF74]

Few things about Zeke...

1) If we take him, why the radical shift in philosophy from last off-season to this year? The rallying cry for not resigning Murray was, "we allocated resources in the OL so we don't NEED to invest significant resources into the RB position". Turning around the next off-season and spending the #4 overall pick on a runner would be absolutely baffling and re-affirm my belief that this FO has no real plan or vision in building a team, rather they make it up as they go.

2) It's common belief that you don't select a runner high in the draft unless they're special. I have a heard time buying into Zeke as special when he wouldn't even be the top RB on the board in the 2015 class (Gurley) or the 2017 class (Fournette). He's at BEST the 2nd best back in those classes, and one could make a strong argument that Gordon, Chubb, and Cook were/are better prospects. Selecting him at 4 this year would be getting sucked into the overhype of the flashiest player in an extremely unflashy class.

3) McFadden was the 4th leading rusher in the league last year. Morris had 750 yards. As it stands right now we have a backfield that rushed for nearly 2000 yards last year. Do we really need to blow the greatest draft resource we've had in 25 years on a luxury pick?

4) Drafting Zeke at 4 puts his contract over the next 5 years on an average of somewhere in the 5.5-6 Mil/yr range. That makes him the 7th highest paid RB the moment he enters the league with a top 5 guaranteed dollar amount. Seems to be an extremely poor way of taking advantage of the adjusted rookie contract scale.

You must not have read the OP, I said trade down...

 

[Alohawg1]

We do not need Elliot this year, when a value pick guy like Johnathan Williams is probably there 4th rd. at the earliest to add depth. Just concentrate on defense this year and reassess, Chubb or even McCaffrey in 2017.

 

[Hardline]

We do not need Elliot this year, when a value pick guy like Johnathan Williams is probably there 4th rd. at the earliest to add depth. Just concentrate on defense this year and reassess, Chubb or even McCaffrey in 2017.

What if the Cowboys aren't I'm position to select one of those rwo? Why not Forney te or Davin Cook?

 

[GustafsenNo1BoysFan]

Ok so 80-90% of the fan base is hoping for a QB at number 4, myself included.. Yet if one truly believes Romo can still be the guy and his injuries have not retired him, the One player that can impact this team the most is Zeke.

When Romo is back there you need that dominant run game to keep the dogs off your QB, you need teams respecting the run game, period. You gotta protect your passer, if he goes down its over. RB by committee is not where it's at with this team, we miss that Murray type production and Zeke is supposed to be that guy and more.

A dominant run game also keeps that defense off the field but after trading down and picking up extra picks, you can address that defense the more..

Jerry said he believes Romo is still the guy and if that's true, if he truly believes that, then no other pick will impact that belief than taking Zeke.

I would bet that if the one QB we really like is gone by 4, we will see a trade down somewhere between 7-12 and it will be for RB Zeke Elliott...

Roger had Tony, Troy had Emmitt, Romo needs a new improved Murray and that's Zeke Elliott..

Ok I'm off to do some YouTube scouting...

I watch much youtube films on elliöt and see beast every time. This make for good pick why argue?

 

[Alexander]

But somebody on this forum said he was the next Leveon Bell...

And people have said Ramsay is the next Rod Woodson. So what?

 

[Alexander]

What if the Cowboys aren't I'm position to select one of those rwo? Why not Forney te or Davin Cook?

It is just like poo-pooing the QB thing. There will be a great one available for us next year. Or the year after that. On our terms. You know, how it always works out that way.

 

[Alohawg1]

What if the Cowboys aren't I'm position to select one of those rwo? Why not Forney te or Davin Cook?

That could be a good thing. Whatever happens next year though, the Cowboys will have a 1st Rd pick and there are so many quality backs it will be hard not get one if needed.

 

[Hardline]

What if the Cowboys aren't I'm position to select one of those rwo? Why not Forney te or Davin Cook?

I butchered this post pretty bad.

 

[morasp]

5. Sorry but most players have not questioned their coaches play calling to the press. Snitches get stitches.
.

That one bothers me too. You've got to wonder even if just a little where this guys head is at.

 

[Gaede]

1. Gurley was drafted 10 and Gordon at the end of the round. I actually put Zeke on par with or slightly ahead of Gordon although I think Gordon is a better runner. Gordon and Zeke are a tier below the other two who also have power to their game. We are talking about player rankings here and the slotting is zero sum.
2. The 4th pick gets ~$6m. The OPOTY the year before got $7m and that is what Martin got. I'm assuming Zeke does well in my initial comments because if he busts then it just that much worse wasting all that money on a HB. As opposed to if Goff, Ramsey and Bosa hit and how much their counterparts get paid.
3. Show me the plays where he is pushing piles and show me one block where he drives his guy back. He is a wall off guy like Escobar except he's in college. Best I have seen is him running through arm tackles with the balance you talk about. I'm not saying he is weak but his strength is merely average.
4. You're missing the point. The DE and QB pickings are slim on the second day. You can find a runner who can contribute on day 3.
5. Sorry but most players have not questioned their coaches play calling to the press. Snitches get stitches.
6. That's fair in that nothing is certain but to say that it shouldn't be investigated just as thoroughly is wishcasting. It is a legitimate concern.
7. I'm not saying it's gravy but were comparing that to Carr, Moore, and Mayowa with worse behind them. DMC made all kinds of plays last year for us and was good on the pass protection. Morris we'll have to see but I think his last two years may be as much Gruden as it is anything. RB3 can be found on day 3.

These are all good points.

I disagree on Zeke, the prospect, though. I like him more than Gurley (he will always be an injury risk) and Gordon (not as well rounded). Let me be clear: I have no evidence to back this up, just personal opinion, but I believe that Zeke is a rare football player with all-pro potential. Especially with the role he would fulfill on this team.

I believe that getting a special player is more important than filling all of the holes on your team. When you have an elite player, they compensate for other weaknesses.

Therefore, I don't agree in drafting a lesser player at 4 so that you can get a better player in the later rounds at another need position. I believe you need to take the best possible player at the pick you're presented with and eschew value and other considerations.

 

[Beast_from_East]

Few things about Zeke...

1) If we take him, why the radical shift in philosophy from last off-season to this year? The rallying cry for not resigning Murray was, "we allocated resources in the OL so we don't NEED to invest significant resources into the RB position". Turning around the next off-season and spending the #4 overall pick on a runner would be absolutely baffling and re-affirm my belief that this FO has no real plan or vision in building a team, rather they make it up as they go.

2) It's common belief that you don't select a runner high in the draft unless they're special. I have a heard time buying into Zeke as special when he wouldn't even be the top RB on the board in the 2015 class (Gurley) or the 2017 class (Fournette). He's at BEST the 2nd best back in those classes, and one could make a strong argument that Gordon, Chubb, and Cook were/are better prospects. Selecting him at 4 this year would be getting sucked into the overhype of the flashiest player in an extremely unflashy class.

3) McFadden was the 4th leading rusher in the league last year. Morris had 750 yards. As it stands right now we have a backfield that rushed for nearly 2000 yards last year. Do we really need to blow the greatest draft resource we've had in 25 years on a luxury pick?

4) Drafting Zeke at 4 puts his contract over the next 5 years on an average of somewhere in the 5.5-6 Mil/yr range. That makes him the 7th highest paid RB the moment he enters the league with a top 5 guaranteed dollar amount. Seems to be an extremely poor way of taking advantage of the adjusted rookie contract scale.

Does call into question the overall strategy the front office is using.

Let the NFL rushing leader walk because he is a product of the o-line and then turn around and use a high first rounder on a RB?

Seems contradictory.

 

[CF74]

Ok so 80-90% of the fan base is hoping for a QB at number 4, myself included.. Yet if one truly believes Romo can still be the guy and his injuries have not retired him, the One player that can impact this team the most is Zeke.

When Romo is back there you need that dominant run game to keep the dogs off your QB, you need teams respecting the run game, period. You gotta protect your passer, if he goes down its over. RB by committee is not where it's at with this team, we miss that Murray type production and Zeke is supposed to be that guy and more.

A dominant run game also keeps that defense off the field but after trading down and picking up extra picks, you can address that defense the more..

Jerry said he believes Romo is still the guy and if that's true, if he truly believes that, then no other pick will impact that belief than taking Zeke.

I would bet that if the one QB we really like is gone by 4, we will see a trade down somewhere between 7-12 and it will be for RB Zeke Elliott...

Roger had Tony, Troy had Emmitt, Romo needs a new improved Murray and that's Zeke Elliott..

Ok I'm off to do some YouTube scouting...

I was wrong, no trade down.......................

 

[jnday]

Only happening if both qbs arent there and they can trade down. Theyll take Ramsey over Zeke too.

They will? Didn't happen.

 

[fishspill]

That one bothers me too. You've got to wonder even if just a little where this guys head is at.

He's in it for himself. The first 2 years he'll be a trooper. Once Romo goes he'll start to squawk. Leaves as public enemy #1 for this board.

 

[stilltheguru88]

They will? Didn't happen.

It happens. Like you being wrong about Treadwell being better than Dez. (Shrugs)

 

[jnday]

It happens. Like you being wrong about Treadwell being better than Dez. (Shrugs)

I never said he was better. I said he was more consistent with a similar set of skills. Dez disappears at times . There is no denying that. Don't take it out on me that you were wrong . Admit it and move on.