The Cowboys Avoided A Disastrous 2013 First Round

NeonDeion21

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On a side note, I love how the author of this says a pass rusher would have been luxury with Ware and Spencer here. That's the kind of short sighted thinking that causes you to trot out stiffs like George Selvie and Jeremy Mincey every week. That's not team building. That's a dam plugging mentality.

Considering he's not very good, I would say it would've been a luxury. Dallas selected Frederick and Terrance Williams over Bjorn Werner. Which side would you rather have?

Werner in 2014: 4.0 sacks.

Mincey in 2014: 3.0 sacks.
 

xwalker

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Amen. This is why you evaluate based on process, not individual results. Do the guys you rank highly pan out at a high rate relative to the guys you rated lower? Are you taking on an appropriate level of risk, or are you risking too much (lots of total busts) or too little (not enough big hits)?

I think the Cowboys' process has been generally pretty good in recent years. I think the whole Floyd debacle was a fluke. The big exception here is that we trade up way too easily. Far better to accumulate picks than trade them away.
If the Cowboys had traded down and ended up with Lawrence as part of the trade down, there would be minimal complaints even if they still drafted him at #34.

People over focus on the trade. Either he was worth #34 or he wasn't regardless of the trade.
 

KJJ

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The Cowboys weren't so lucky in the first round of the 2012 draft. Strange how the most likely player to succeed flopped and the other who was looked at as a reach late in the first round has developed into a solid player.
 

Idgit

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We had signed Carr, Scandrick was locked up, and Mike Jenkins was in a contract year. That trade up made no sense whatsoever. It just becomes worse as Claiborne continues to disappoint.

We'd just lost Newman in 2011, and Jenkins was coming off a significant injury and had missed most of camp and was no sure thing to be in the starting lineup the first week of the season. And it was his walk-season as the team had already decided to cut-bait. We should never have been in that position in the first place, but we very definitely needed to make some big moves at CB that year.
 

JD_KaPow

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If the Cowboys had traded down and ended up with Lawrence as part of the trade down, there would be minimal complaints even if they still drafted him at #34.

People over focus on the trade. Either he was worth #34 or he wasn't regardless of the trade.
That's only true if you don's assign any value to draft picks. We used two picks to get Lawrence. If we'd traded down, we would have used one pick and gotten Lawrence and somebody else. The trade is critical to the analysis.
 

KingintheNorth

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We'd just lost Newman in 2011, and Jenkins was coming off a significant injury and had missed most of camp and was no sure thing to be in the starting lineup the first week of the season. And it was his walk-season as the team had already decided to cut-bait. We should never have been in that position in the first place, but we very definitely needed to make some big moves at CB that year.

Jenkins was expected to be back. After the Claiborne move, Jenkins got salty and decided to rehab on his own. All indications before the draft was that Jenkins was on pace to return in time as he was looking forward to proving his worth in a contract year.
 

xwalker

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That's only true if you don's assign any value to draft picks. We used two picks to get Lawrence. If we'd traded down, we would have used one pick and gotten Lawrence and somebody else. The trade is critical to the analysis.
Pick #34 is approximately equal to the 2 picks they gave up to get it. Either he is worth #34 or he isn't.

If you're going to worry about any pick that was acquired in a trade up, then you need to look at all picks and ponder what if they traded down. If #34 had been their original pick? Should they have traded down to get #47 and #78.

The Cowboys have had the best success when they draft players that they were really sold on.

Callahan had personally worked out Fred. Dooley and the scouts spent time with T. Williams.

On the flip side, they didn't even interview Claiborne. They did expect to be in a position to draft him but the Rams called and made a deal directly with Jerry. The scouting dept wasn't prepared for that pick.

I feel good about DLaw because I know they had focused on him and he wasn't just the next guy on the list. I would want them to trade up too often, but sometimes it's the better option.

In 2009 they should have traded away all of their picks to move up to the 1st round and get the player they really wanted, Max Unger. People would have said they over drafted him, but they ended up with about 12 lower picks that all basically failed while Unger went on to Pro Bowls.
 

reddyuta

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I hope the brain trust realize that these trade ups are not worth it,Lawrence was never a slam dunk de(if he was was he would have gone in the 1st),there are no circumstances where we should trade up next year.,we need all the picks we have and we dont have a 6th rd pick.
 

JD_KaPow

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Pick #34 is approximately equal to the 2 picks they gave up to get it. Either he is worth #34 or he isn't.

If you're going to worry about any pick that was acquired in a trade up, then you need to look at all picks and ponder what if they traded down. If #34 had been their original pick? Should they have traded down to get #47 and #78.

The Cowboys have had the best success when they draft players that they were really sold on.

Callahan had personally worked out Fred. Dooley and the scouts spent time with T. Williams.

On the flip side, they didn't even interview Claiborne. They did expect to be in a position to draft him but the Rams called and made a deal directly with Jerry. The scouting dept wasn't prepared for that pick.

I feel good about DLaw because I know they had focused on him and he wasn't just the next guy on the list. I would want them to trade up too often, but sometimes it's the better option.

In 2009 they should have traded away all of their picks to move up to the 1st round and get the player they really wanted, Max Unger. People would have said they over drafted him, but they ended up with about 12 lower picks that all basically failed while Unger went on to Pro Bowls.
A lot of this I won't argue with. I think they're a lot more leery these days about picking guys they haven't talked to/done full due diligence on, and that's probably a good thing. I also agree that it's reasonable to go after somebody you really want, if (a) you have reason to trust that your talent evaluators are very good and (b) if the price isn't too ridiculous. I also think that it's no big deal to get a little less than normal value on trades down, because accumulating picks is very good, particularly (again) if you have good talent evaluators.

But there are a couple things I disagree with. The issue I have with the Lawrence trade is that #47 and #78 are not approximately the same as #34. It was an overpayment by the traditional value chart and a bad overpayment by more sophisticated measures. In answer to your question, absolutely I'd trade down from 34 to 47 and 78 unless there was a great value sitting there at 34. And I don't believe the Cowboys or anyone else saw Lawrence as a tremendous value at 34. Could I be wrong? Sure. We'll see.
 

jobberone

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Almost as bad as suggesting we were smarter than everyone else trading down when in fact we wanted Vacarro.

Yeah, and that would have been a good pick. You pays your dollar and takes your chance. They had a plan in case that didn't work out and it did. It's all a lot of luck in the draft. Tex and Parcells are two off the bat I can remember saying so. Look at the % of picks that pan out for every team over the years for each draft and position.
 

DogFace

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^^^^^This is correct. This constant and consistant blaming the front office just makes you look worse.

I know it makes you feel good and that's the problem.
 

Idgit

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Jenkins was expected to be back. After the Claiborne move, Jenkins got salty and decided to rehab on his own. All indications before the draft was that Jenkins was on pace to return in time as he was looking forward to proving his worth in a contract year.

That's not how I remember it. I was one who would have just extended Jenkins, though the Cowboys clearly weren't going to. I thought he got a bit of a bad rap. But he played hurt on that shoulder in 2011 for the team and then wasn't very happy about how they treated him in the offseason. He insisted on working on it out in FLA and then the team thought he came back behind schedule as a result and were worried about him not being ready for the start of the season. Either way, with him hurt and on his last year with no expectation of renewal and Newman gone, we were in a bad position at CB at that point going into that season. The Carr signing/Claiborne pick made sense in that regard. .
 

CT Dal Fan

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I hope the brain trust realize that these trade ups are not worth it,Lawrence was never a slam dunk de(if he was was he would have gone in the 1st),there are no circumstances where we should trade up next year.,we need all the picks we have and we dont have a 6th rd pick.

If Dallas didn't trade up for Lawrence, they would have taken Missouri DE Kony Ealy at 47 and LSU guard Trai Turner at 78. Both are so-so in Carolina right now.

If the Cowboys didn't get Martin at 16, they would have traded down in the 1st and taken Lawrence then.
 

waving monkey

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Almost as bad as suggesting we were smarter than everyone else trading down when in fact we wanted Vacarro.

It doesn't matter who we wanted if his not available.This is the reality of the NFL
Every NFL team experiences this order of the draft. This is the weakest argument
 

KingintheNorth

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^^^^^This is correct. This constant and consistant blaming the front office just makes you look worse.

I know it makes you feel good and that's the problem.

Pretending they aren't the problem makes you look blind.

I am amazed that people think that the Cowboy fans who are unhappy with the team are 1) happy when we fail and 2) like the team less than you do. It's a little lie you tell yourself to cope I guess. I like to discuss things that are going well (Romo, Rolando McClain, the O LIne, Murray, Dez) and point out the things that I see as a problem (Garrett, the lack of talent on defense, Jerry Jones). I'll continue to live in reality and you guys keep pretending the NFL hands out participation ribbons in February.
 
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