The Cowboys have been rebuilding under Garrett

[jobberone]

Wow!

Whether you agree or not I can make a good argument for it. That is not a recommendation for Garrett. Just an acknowledgment of the difficulties the past two years, what I see as an increase in the talent and overall depth of the team, and the advantages of continuity. My personal faith in Garrett has back tracked a bit.

 

[jobberone]

It's the main reason right now. Certainly wasn't the main reason Dallas lost against KC and regardless of how many yards they gave up Detroit loses if Dallas doesn't provide them the means with which to get the ball back on the last drive.

And more than just wins or losses, the offense hasn't been hit with injuries like the defense has and yet the offense has been struggling.

I don't think you have to give him anything. The very reason I thought that he earned the job was because he got more from a group of guys than I would have expected. Without Romo and with a defense that was awful, he got them to win. Since that time I can't say that he's gotten more from this group than would be expected.

I'm not exactly thrilled with him either. I just don't know what to make of the last two years. I'm not sure I've ever seen one unit decimated like the defense has been esp two years in a row. Plus he's still working his way out of a big talent hole.

 

[17yearsandcounting]

It worked in Denver.

I diddnt realize that getting rid of Tebow constituted a 'rebuilding'.

 

[17yearsandcounting]

Just more excuses for teflon Jason.

 

[birdwells1]

This was stated before and someone pointed out the fact that all NFL rosters have taken a similar churn in the same 3 years. JG's not doing anything special here.

 

[17yearsandcounting]

This was stated before and someone pointed out the fact that all NFL rosters have taken a similar churn in the same 3 years. JG's not doing anything special here.

Reid got rid of almost 2/3rds of last seasons roster. Dont want to hear any bad division BS either.

 

[Sarge]

Yes, rebuilding to achieve the same results (.500)

Doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

 

[visionary]

Whether you agree or not I can make a good argument for it. That is not a recommendation for Garrett. Just an acknowledgment of the difficulties the past two years, what I see as an increase in the talent and overall depth of the team, and the advantages of continuity. My personal faith in Garrett has back tracked a bit.

I am divided between whether it is the actual inability to understand the facts or the lack of courage to face them

 

[jobberone]

I am divided between whether it is the actual inability to understand the facts or the lack of courage to face them

In some people's case it's probably an inability to understand. OTOH, those who actually think they understand the entire problem are likely being just arrogant.

 

[jnday]

OP,

I'm with you on this. We are rebuilding.

Oline: Smith and Frederick are centerpieces and will be blocking for our next QB since they're both young. Leary has been consistent at the LG and if he can mange that knee he'd be our 3rd young lineman who has an impact.

Dline: We need to address this area in the offseason because its our weakest part of the team and the most vital area as well.

LB: Lee is our back bone and Carter will continue to improve as he gets comfortable with the scheme changes. I would like to add another LB or simply convert Church to the weak side in the offseason.

DB: Carr, Scandrick, Mo, and Wilcox are going to continue to hold up our secondary for seasons to come. Wilcox is only going to get better with each snap. I won't count on Johnson or Heath to be impact players next year, but I believe S-(converted back) Dion Bailey would be an impact player that would compliment Wilcox in the back end on our secondary.

Receivers: Bryant, Williams, Beasley, Harris, and Witten will all continue to thrive with us down the road. Once we can get Beasley and Williams more time with the system, the effective they will become.

RB: This area has durability problems also mixed in with improper use from our coaches during the game. Improvement needed in both areas.


QB: I love Romo and I hope he can play for another 7-10 years. With everything he's been through, a SB would really reward us all; including Romo, for all of the pain we've been through..... We need to find his replacement in the near future since he can't play forever.

Romo is not going to play another 7-10 years. His arm strength is declining now.

 

[visionary]

This was stated before and someone pointed out the fact that all NFL rosters have taken a similar churn in the same 3 years. JG's not doing anything special here.

Close your eyes and say lollipops and rainbows and you might actually start believing that we are rebuilding

 

[cowboys1981]

Romo is not going to play another 7-10 years. His arm strength is declining now.

Yeah, that was a wishful statement. We need to find someone to groom now.

 

[Stash]

The other possibility is that Garrett or Jones or Larry Lacewell or the liquor store guy or whoever else has a hand in this simply isn't doing a good job of "rebuilding".

The team is definitely younger, but not necessarily better.

Exactly right.

And I feel that this thread reinforces what I have said, the current NFL is a 3-year league. You draft players and essentially have 3 years to do something with the group you have and after that you're 'rebuilding'.

Windows of opportunity open and close quickly.

And you have to get something done within that window or you don't deserve to be there.

I remember a certain owner talking about windows closing not too long ago, but I haven't heard him mention it recently.

Maybe because said window has slammed shut on his hands?

 

[visionary]

In some people's case it's probably an inability to understand. OTOH, those who actually think they understand the entire problem are likely being just arrogant.

Exactly
One side is trying to point out the facts

The other is blindly (and smugly) reciting the mantra of believe while trying to distract from the obvious issues


I wonder which side is ignorant and arrogant

 

[Risen Star]

NFL average for roster turnover is 3-4 seasons.

The fact that most of the guys from 3.5 years ago are gone is not really a sign of rebuilding, its just the norm in the NFL.

I agree.

 

[xwalker]

Well, maybe you're right about romo. But realistically how many more years can he produce at relatively high level. And will that be good enough for the team to be a contender? By the time 2015 comes around as you mentioned in your post, I don't know if tony will still be playing at a high level. That's why I'd draft a qb and let him sit one year. But I guess that's not possible with Romo's contract. I did not know under the new CBA a team couldn't afford to let a first round pick sit the bench for a year or at most 2 years. I thought there were rules to prevent rookies from making huge contracts.?

Are you saying we need to find someone else to try to call plays from JG's outdated playbook? Please no! We've been doing that for seven years. Lets do something new, and creative, it'll be fun.

The rookie contracts are lower but the veterans as a result are getting paid more. Teams must get contributions from rookies in order to manage the cap.

I agree.

That's just a random number without some facts to back it up.

Also, you have to look at the type of players added/subtracted. In the same time frame, the 49ers kept 5 more original players from the beginning of 2010; however, they also added 6 players over 30 while the Cowboys added Zero players over 30. That's a difference of 11 players where the 49ers were getting older while the Cowboys were getting younger. It's the difference in a team rebuilding vs a team that is winning now.

You also have to look at the players subtracted. Turnover of the bottom half of the roster is substantially different than turnover of the top of the roster. The Cowboys dumped Marion Barber, Roy Williams, Gurode, Leonard Davis, Bradie James, Keith Brooking, Marc Columbo, Kyle Kosier, etc.. That is substantially different than if they had dumped all of the Danny McCray type players.

 

[visionary]

The Cowboys have been doing a non-QB rebuild ever since Garrett became the HC. They only have 8 players over 28 on the roster and 2 are QBs and 1 is a Long-Snapper. That leaves 5 regular players over 28:
Ware
Austin
Hatcher
Free
Witten

Hatcher will be Free Agent and Austin is highly doubtful to return.

It's even possible that Ware could be gone due to his extreme salary of 12.25M for a declining player.

Free will be in the final year of his (reduced) contract in 2014.

The following is the game 1 roster for the 2010 season. This is the year where Garrett took over during the middle of the season (players on current roster in bold):

Quarterbacks
9 Tony Romo
3 Jon Kitna
7 Stephen McGee

Running Backs
34 Deon Anderson FB
24 Marion Barber III
23 Tashard Choice
44 Chris Gronkowski FB
28 Felix Jones

Wide Receivers
19 Miles Austin
88 Dez Bryant
17 Sam Hurd
85 Kevin Ogletree
11 Roy Williams

Tight Ends
80 Martellus Bennett
82 Jason Witten

Offensive Linemen
71 Alex Barron T
79 Robert Brewster T
75 Marc Colombo T
67 Phil Costa C/G
70 Leonard Davis G
68 Doug Free T
65 Andre Gurode C/G
64 Montrae Holland G
63 Kyle Kosier G/C
76 Sam Young T

Defensive Linemen
72 Stephen Bowen DE
92 Josh Brent NT
97 Jason Hatcher DE
95 Sean Lissemore NT/DE
99 Igor Olshansky DE
90 Jay Ratliff NT
96 Marcus Spears DE

Linebackers
51 Keith Brooking ILB
57 Victor Butler OLB/DE
56 Bradie James ILB
50 Sean Lee ILB
93 Anthony Spencer OLB/DE
94 DeMarcus Ware OLB/DE
59 Brandon Williams OLB/DE
58 Jason Williams ILB
52 Leon Williams ILB

Defensive Backs
20 Alan Ball FS/CB
42 Barry Church SS
36 Michael Hamlin SS/FS
21 Mike Jenkins CB
40 Danny McCray FS
41 Terence Newman CB
27 Akwasi Owusu-Ansah FS/CB/KR
32 Orlando Scandrick CB
43 Gerald Sensabaugh SS

Special Teams
18 David Buehler K
91 L. P. Ladouceur LS
1 Mat McBriar P

Reserve Lists
55 Stephen Hodge ILB (PUP) Injury
89 John Phillips (IR) Injury

Practice Squad
60 Travis Bright G
86 Scott Chandler TE
16 Jesse Holley WR
15 Manuel Johnson WR
78 Cliff Louis OT
35 Lonyae Miller RB
83 Martin Rucker TE
29 Teddy Williams CB/WR

The mantra of the Garrett is rebuilding crowd was that this is a 3 year process
This is year 3, where are the results?

Rebuilding?...... To what? Mediocrity?

I have seen this movie for 17 years
This is no different

Only the excuses and faces have changed

Red is in over his head and still learning the rudiments if being an average HC

Time for him to go

 

[Dodger12]

That's just a random number without some facts to back it up.

No it's not random. If the Op is going to claim that normal turnover is some evidence of rebuilding, then he's got to compare it or average it as to what other teams have done in that same time frame. Other people in this thread have mentioned a couple other teams that have had similar turnover. You either ignore it (KC) or make a different argument all together (players signed over 30) as if that's not turning over the roster.

Also, you have to look at the type of players added/subtracted. In the same time frame, the 49ers kept 5 more original players from the beginning of 2010; however, they also added 6 players over 30 while the Cowboys added Zero players over 30.

How about Waters and Allen?

 

[Risen Star]

The rookie contracts are lower but the veterans as a result are getting paid more. Teams must get contributions from rookies in order to manage the cap.


That's just a random number without some facts to back it up.

Also, you have to look at the type of players added/subtracted. In the same time frame, the 49ers kept 5 more original players from the beginning of 2010; however, they also added 6 players over 30 while the Cowboys added Zero players over 30. That's a difference of 11 players where the 49ers were getting older while the Cowboys were getting younger. It's the difference in a team rebuilding vs a team that is winning now.

You also have to look at the players subtracted. Turnover of the bottom half of the roster is substantially different than turnover of the top of the roster. The Cowboys dumped Marion Barber, Roy Williams, Gurode, Leonard Davis, Bradie James, Keith Brooking, Marc Columbo, Kyle Kosier, etc.. That is substantially different than if they had dumped all of the Danny McCray type players.

But teams have to turnover the top half too. Otherwise you'll struggle to be cap compliant. The Cowboys don't get an atta boy for making the moves necessary to fit within the salary cap.

It's the state of the NFL. All teams are going to have a lot of turnover over a 3-4 year period. So I'm not sure what your point is.

If the Cowboys are rebuilding, then I LOL at their attempt considering how weak this team remains in the trenches. You don't rebuild spending 50 million on a cornerback and 1st and 2nd round picks on another.

If that's the foundation we're laying, you might want to check the builder's business license.

 

[jobberone]

But teams have to turnover the top half too. Otherwise you'll struggle to be cap compliant. The Cowboys don't get an atta boy for making the moves necessary to fit within the salary cap.

It's the state of the NFL. All teams are going to have a lot of turnover over a 3-4 year period. So I'm not sure what your point is.

If the Cowboys are rebuilding, then I LOL at their attempt considering how weak this team remains in the trenches. You don't rebuild spending 50 million on a cornerback and 1st and 2nd round picks on another.

If that's the foundation we're laying, you might want to check the builder's business license.

I agree. We need DBs who can tackle and stay on the field. You cannot spend too much money on CBs. Also CBs are difficult to hit on with the draft relative to safeties which are now a much safer pick. DL and OL are a tougher pick, too, unless at the top although C is a relatively safe pick then guard. We spend too much money on some positions. We need to pare the tree sooner and develop faster.