The curious case of Ezekiel Elliott

[tyke1doe]

Ummmmm............

We had Murray in 2013................... so it's not like we added a bellcow back in 2014 and the world just changed for the Cowboys. We had the same skill pieces in 2012 and 2013. What changed was actually the OL, specifically Martin plugged in at OG in 2014 and a commitment from the coaching staff to run more.

And I remember us giving it to DeMarco Murray and him having a hole the size of the Grand Canyon and being stripped of the ball. We take that ball in the end zone, maybe there's no comeback for the Packers and our defense not being able to stop a one-legged Rodgers is a non-issue.

I always said Murray was a fumble waiting to happen. Ezekiel Elliott doesn't carry the ball like Murray does.

So combine that with all the other skills and talents he possesses, then, yes, I expect him to do very well and even better than DM for the Cowboys.

So when you said "we had average backs" prior to 2014, you are basically saying Murray was average. Well how did he become great in 2014?

He got healthy. But he still had fumbling problems.

 

[Sydla]

And I remember us giving it to DeMarco Murray and him having a hole the size of the Grand Canyon and being stripped of the ball. We take that ball in the end zone, maybe there's no comeback for the Packers and our defense not being able to stop a one-legged Rodgers is a non-issue.

I always said Murray was a fumble waiting to happen. Ezekiel Elliott doesn't carry the ball like Murray does.

So combine that with all the other skills and talents he possesses, then, yes, I expect him to do very well and even better than DM for the Cowboys.

LOL.

Your whole premise was that things changed for the Cowboys in 2014 because they went with a bellcow TB and less pass happy. And yet that bellcow TB was already on our roster and was actually only a 3rd round pick himself............... and it actually wasn't the TB himself who probably changed the offense in 2014 but more likely the commitment to run the ball from the coaching staff and adding an OG, who as a rookie, became one of the best OGs in football as said rookie.

You basically kind of undermined your whole argument as to why we have to have Elliott.

 

[tyke1doe]

LOL.

Your whole premise was that things changed for the Cowboys in 2014 because they went with a bellcow TB and less pass happy. And yet that bellcow TB was already on our roster and was actually only a 3rd round pick himself............... and it actually wasn't the TB himself who probably changed the offense in 2014 but more likely the commitment to run the ball from the coaching staff and adding an OG, who as a rookie, became one of the best OGs in football as said rookie.

You basically kind of undermined your whole argument as to why we have to have Elliott.

If you look at it from a binary perspective, sure.

Murray was a bellcow back, but he had fumbling issues. And you'll notice when I said "average backs" I referenced TO and Ware. Murray wasn't on the team, or wasn't doing anything, when TO and Ware were playing together along with our other average backs.

Moreover, why did we all of a sudden go to a run-oriented offense? It was because we had someone to tote the rock, and we had a back who could do it.

Ezekiel Elliott represents a back who can be that bellcow runner for us. And he doesn't have the fumbling issues Murray did.

I don't see how that's undermining my argument. Again, a back like Elliott can work wonders with our offense, our defense and our team in general.

We can go back and forth. But our arguments aren't going to really change. So we'll just have to agree to disagree, and let the future decide.

 

[Dallas_Cowboys50]

IF we did draft him, I hope the nickname Eazy E takes off.....

 

[Sydla]

If you look at it from a binary perspective, sure.

Murray was a bellcow back, but he had fumbling issues. And you'll notice when I said "average backs" I referenced TO and Ware. Murray wasn't on the team, or wasn't doing anything, when TO and Ware were playing together along with our other average backs.

Moreover, why did we all of a sudden go to a run-oriented offense? It was because we had someone to tote the rock, and we had a back who could do it.

Ezekiel Elliott represents a back who can be that bellcow runner for us. And he doesn't have the fumbling issues Murray did.

I don't see how that's undermining my argument. Again, a back like Elliott can work wonders with our offense, our defense and our team in general.

We can go back and forth. But our arguments aren't going to really change. So we'll just have to agree to disagree, and let the future decide.

The same TB was on the roster in 2012 and 2013. We suddently went to a run-oriented offense in 2014 because the coaching staff thought they could run more now that they had what they believed was a complete OL that could handle more of a physical ground game. They didn't switch to a ground offense because they magically added a real RB in the offseason.

You are undermining your argument because the facts as you lay them out point that the reason why we ran the ball so well in 2014 probably had more to do with the OL than the TB and that in fact, the TB who magically became a bellcow in 2014, wasn't a first round elite TB, but rather a 3rd round from 3 years prior that some people thought we should consider moving on from prior to 2014.

In other words, it's not the TB that made our running game, it was the OL.

Stick with that plan and use premium picks on real holes on defense or at QB and then use the middle rounds to address TB. That seems like the prudent move.

 

[tyke1doe]

The same TB was on the roster in 2012 and 2013. We suddently went to a run-oriented offense in 2014 because the coaching staff thought they could run more now that they had what they believed was a complete OL that could handle more of a physical ground game. They didn't switch to a ground offense because they magically added a real RB in the offseason.

You are undermining your argument because the facts as you lay them out point that the reason why we ran the ball so well in 2014 probably had more to do with the OL than the TB and that in fact, the TB who magically became a bellcow in 2014, wasn't a first round elite TB, but rather a 3rd round from 3 years prior that some people thought we should consider moving on from prior to 2014.

In other words, it's not the TB that made our running game, it was the OL.

Stick with that plan and use premium picks on real holes on defense or at QB and then use the middle rounds to address TB. That seems like the prudent move.

Murray was injured much of his career. 2014 was the only year he started the entire season, and even then, he had a hand injury.

Be that as it may, if you feel I've undermined my argument so be it.

Bottom line: I still think Ezekiel Elliott will have a major impact on this team. He will take pressure off Darren McFadden and Tony Romo. He will take greater advantage of our offensive line and do more than an average back would. He will take the pressure off our defense having to be on the field for long periods of time.

Nitpicking my argument won't change that.

 

[phildadon86]

If you fear the player that much, you might as well take him for yourself.

yup

 

[phildadon86]

The same TB was on the roster in 2012 and 2013. We suddently went to a run-oriented offense in 2014 because the coaching staff thought they could run more now that they had what they believed was a complete OL that could handle more of a physical ground game. They didn't switch to a ground offense because they magically added a real RB in the offseason.

You are undermining your argument because the facts as you lay them out point that the reason why we ran the ball so well in 2014 probably had more to do with the OL than the TB and that in fact, the TB who magically became a bellcow in 2014, wasn't a first round elite TB, but rather a 3rd round from 3 years prior that some people thought we should consider moving on from prior to 2014.

In other words, it's not the TB that made our running game, it was the OL.

Stick with that plan and use premium picks on real holes on defense or at QB and then use the middle rounds to address TB. That seems like the prudent move.

But realistically there isnt anyone to draft for defense that would have the same impact EE would have. That is the issue, also, not having to defend against him twice a year is a huge plus as well.

 

[bayeslife]

I'm not ashamed to admit one of my favorite pros for Elliot is that I think his name is awesome. That and I can yell ZEKEEEEE every time he touches the ball.

 

[Sydla]

But realistically there isnt anyone to draft for defense that would have the same impact EE would have. That is the issue, also, not having to defend against him twice a year is a huge plus as well.

I really don't care where he ends up even if its Philly or New York. He's not the love child of Earl Campbell, Eric Dickerson and Adrian Peterson where he's going to be an unstoppable force that changes the fortunes of the NFC East for the next 5-7 years.

If my draft thinking is based on where he could end up, then my draft thinking is screwed up.

Just my opinion, but I believe people are overestimating the impact Elliott will have on this team. IMO, I think you can find a TB in the 3rd or 4th round who can be more than good enough (like Murray) to make this a very good running attack like we had in 2014.

So frankly, I'd rather take Bosa or Ramsey at 4 and then find a running back later. Of course, all those are 2nd options to taking a QB at 4.

 

[phildadon86]

I really don't care where he ends up even if its Philly or New York. He's not the love child of Earl Campbell, Eric Dickerson and Adrian Peterson where he's going to be an unstoppable force that changes the fortunes of the NFC East for the next 5-7 years.

If my draft thinking is based on where he could end up, then my draft thinking is screwed up.

We can re visit this when he is torching our defense for the next 5 years if you like.

 

[DC Cowboy]

In most drafts, I would probably agree. But this draft is so odd in the fact a back is even close to being considered one of the top five players has to make you examine the possibility.

good point! it is an odd draft, once again I like Ramsey, but this is my flip side - IF the Boys did pick Elliott they will still have four more picks in the next 131 picks to still improve the defense. This draft is loaded with D-line talent. We probably could still grab a good DT in the 2nd and a CB in the 3rd. Who knows?????????????

 

[DC Cowboy]

But realistically there isnt anyone to draft for defense that would have the same impact EE would have. That is the issue, also, not having to defend against him twice a year is a huge plus as well.

Can we count on McFadden to stay healthy should be considered as well.

 

[Plankton]

I think taking Elliott 4th overall would be a little too rich for my blood, but I do love him as a player. If they took him, I wouldn't be in favor of the value, but I think he would be an absolute stud in Dallas.

On a trade down? In a heartbeat.

 

[erod]

The same TB was on the roster in 2012 and 2013. We suddently went to a run-oriented offense in 2014 because the coaching staff thought they could run more now that they had what they believed was a complete OL that could handle more of a physical ground game. They didn't switch to a ground offense because they magically added a real RB in the offseason.

You are undermining your argument because the facts as you lay them out point that the reason why we ran the ball so well in 2014 probably had more to do with the OL than the TB and that in fact, the TB who magically became a bellcow in 2014, wasn't a first round elite TB, but rather a 3rd round from 3 years prior that some people thought we should consider moving on from prior to 2014.

In other words, it's not the TB that made our running game, it was the OL.

Stick with that plan and use premium picks on real holes on defense or at QB and then use the middle rounds to address TB. That seems like the prudent move.

Yes, it was the offensive line.

Now, what would it look like with an elite RB behind that offensive line. Murray was hardly elite, and I've said that for years (I watched every game he played at OU, too.)

 

[logan]

I can dig it..

 

[DC Cowboy]

Can we count on McFadden to stay healthy should be considered as well.

We have McFadden and Dunbar (if he returns) who contributed last year, at least at the start of the season. Both those backs have an injury history. So I could see taking Zeke b/c he can fill both roles.

 

[ccb04]

I think the most significant impact of drafting Elliott at 4 has less to do with Elliott himself. I think taking the kid with that pick tells the league and your team that you have an identity and you don't give a rats *** what the league is doing, you're going to win games your way. I wouldn't call it a misappropriation of resources at all. I would call it a tactical decision and the rest of the league can shove it.You get a fifth year option at a position where that fifth year is generally the prime year. You get the best football player in the draft, a physical specimen and a kid who loves the game.

I don't care about positional value anymore. I want good football players who fit/have/create a winning identity for this team.

Well said. It's the indentity/formula that worked in 2014 & had them a couple of plays away from the NFC Championship game.

I can see other viewpoints as well, such as the appropriation of funds to the position...taking a potential/hopeful franchise QB instead...the bust rate (although the same could be said for DL, QB, etc...really any position). And so on. I also like other players (at least their potential or certain attributes), to include the 2 QB's, Ramsey, Jack, & Bosa a bit.

But while injuries played a large role in 2015...the team finally had an identity in 2014. It might be somewhat contrary to the way the NFL has been trending, but it worked. And of course, the passing game was also successful...as Romo had his best season, and Dez led the league with 16 TD's. Offensively, everything seemed to meld together very effectively. And while the defense was mediocre, they were able to stay fresh & were 2nd in the league in turnovers...which of course leads to more opportunity for the offense to score & control a game.

Murray was a 'complete' bell cow back. That's what's most appealing to me about Zeke as a player...how that well-rounded skill set could potentially help the team as a whole...not just the offense. Couple his skill-set with the OL's as a run blocking unit, and it could be a perfect match. In 2014, the Cowboys were at or near the top in offensive 3rd down efficiency & TOP...both of which not only extend drives on offense, but at the same time it also of course keeps the defense (and some opponents quality passing attacks), off the field.

Not sure how seriously the Cowboys will consider Elliott...but he'd certainly be among the handful of players I'd be considering.

 

[Sydla]

Yes, it was the offensive line.

Now, what would it look like with an elite RB behind that offensive line. Murray was hardly elite, and I've said that for years (I watched every game he played at OU, too.)

I am guessing not much better than when Murray was going good, because 1,800 yards was one of the best in league history (17th of all time)

I think some of you completely overestimate how good the kid is. Like listening to some of you, you'd think he'd run for 2,300 yards in a season behind this OL.

 

[erod]

I am guessing not much better than when Murray was going good, because 1,800 yards was one of the best in league history (17th of all time)

I think some of you completely overestimate how good the kid is. Like listening to some of you, you'd think he'd run for 2,300 yards in a season behind this OL.

Forget the yards and remember the runs. How many times did Murray get caught from behind, or fumble the ball? Elliott doesn't get caught from behind, and he's not a fumbler.

Like Murray, Elliott will pick up a 3rd and 2. McFadden won't with the same frequency. That is HUGE in keeping drives alive, and it was Murray's greatest strength.