The defense might be really good

Galian Beast

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It keeps going back to health with me. If we can field a healthy defense, I have no doubt that it will be a top 5 defense in the league.

Who was everyone raving about before he had to get surgery? Anthony Spencer. Who are we raving about now? Ware and Hatcher. Can you imagine what that would look like if Ratliff can get in there and play? That sounds like a really good defensive line to me. I'm sure we will have to address the position at length in the next draft and free agency period, but for now I think this can be a strength for us. I would probably give up the entire draft to get Clowney to combine him with Ware. That being said, let's not forget Kyle Wilber who seems to be coming on.

I think we're all more than impressed by our linebackers. When your weak links are Durant or Sims who both seem to be having pretty strong camps... I think that says a lot about your linebacker corp. The real weakness that we were all afraid of was in the secondary, where we are appearing to look stacked with potential.

Carr and Claiborne should pay dividends this year, but Scandrick seems like he is have a pretty decent camp. And the competition seems to be bringing the best out of people. Not just against the wide receivers, but among the corners. That is what competition does for a team. We're stacked at wide receiver, so every receiver is pushing their hardest to just make the team. Williams, Harris, Beasley, Rogers, Armstrong. Some of these guys are fighting for the 3 spot, some are fighting to make the roster. Because they have to fight so hard, they are a handful for the corners, who are also in the same position. The position groups make other position groups work harder and the cycle continues.

We're stacked at tight end, which should make these safeties have to work much harder. And we have some interesting things happening at safety. I think before camp most of us wanted Will Allen to be cut, but it looks like he might be great for this defense with a lot of young safeties, especially for Church. That being said JJ Wilcox seems to be a game changer back there. Matt Johnson just needs to stay healthy and continue to progress. Haven't heard too much about Hamilton, but I'm sure we will see him more in preseason.

As these cuts come closer, this team is only going to get better. I feel sorry for Miami right now.

The best thing about our defense is that it is a pretty young defense, except for the defensive line. Our linebackers are young enough, our secondary is extremely young. Future drafts can focus almost entirely on the defensive line (and offensive line as I will touch upon in another thread)
 

TheRomoSexual

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I completely agree. We will have one of the deepest defensive backfields and linebacker units in the NFL. Spencer-Hatcher-Ratliff-Ware should be a very solid starting group, and we have been hearing good things about Liss, Bass, and Wilber.
 

Risen Star

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Our DL is facing our OL in camp. Once the games start and the competition level increases, you won't see them dominating.

Our defense won't be top 5 because of the play at the line of scrimmage. They can be decent but nowhere near one of the top 5 defenses in the league, IMO.
 

TheRomoSexual

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Our DL is facing our OL in camp. Once the games start and the competition level increases, you won't see them dominating.

Our defense won't be top 5 because of the play at the line of scrimmage. They can be decent but nowhere near one of the top 5 defenses in the league, IMO.

Our starting DLine group if healthy (and I realize that's a key distinction) is pretty near top 5-10 in the NFL.
 

MichaelWinicki

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I'm like Risen Star to the extent I would like to see more/younger/better pettigree folks competing on the d-line BUT I like the starting unit. I think there are several folks that aren't sure about the folks backing up the starters.

That being said, I'm very pleased with the linebacking corp. Potentially one of the best.

I think the corners are excellent.

The safeties seem to have potential to be one of the better groups the Cowboys have put out there in several seasons (not that it would be hard to do), but we need to see these guys in action in order to be sure.

Overall, I'm thinking this is a top-10 defense.
 

RS12

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Our DL is facing our OL in camp. Once the games start and the competition level increases, you won't see them dominating.

Our defense won't be top 5 because of the play at the line of scrimmage. They can be decent but nowhere near one of the top 5 defenses in the league, IMO.

Agree. I am seeing middle of the pack, dont like the age and recent injury history on the DL. Safety is??? to me.
 

TheRomoSexual

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I'm like Risen Star to the extent I would like to see more/younger/better pettigree folks competing on the d-line BUT I like the starting unit. I think there are several folks that aren't sure about the folks backing up the starters.

That being said, I'm very pleased with the linebacking corp. Potentially one of the best.

I think the corners are excellent.

The safeties seem to have potential to be one of the better groups the Cowboys have put out there in several seasons (not that it would be hard to do), but we need to see these guys in action in order to be sure.

Overall, I'm thinking this is a top-10 defense.

Yeah, good points. Top 10 is a much safer bet.
 

Risen Star

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Agree. I am seeing middle of the pack, dont like the age and recent injury history on the DL. Safety is??? to me.

I really like Wilcox. It's probably asking a lot though to expect him to be a factor as a starter this year considering he's a rookie who barely played on the defensive side of the ball.
 

Galian Beast

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I really like Wilcox. It's probably asking a lot though to expect him to be a factor as a starter this year considering he's a rookie who barely played on the defensive side of the ball.

Reports are suggesting that he looks like a veteran out there. I could see him at least splitting time with Allen. Especially if we can get some early leads going.
 

Risen Star

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I'm like Risen Star to the extent I would like to see more/younger/better pettigree folks competing on the d-line BUT I like the starting unit. I think there are several folks that aren't sure about the folks backing up the starters.

We had one of those and he tore his Achilles.

I have issues with the starters too. Ware has broken down some the last year. Spencer has had one year in his career where he's been a top player. Hatcher is okay. Ratliff hasn't been good in 4 years. This is an old group with the arrow pointing down. A little foresight from the GM is required.

That being said, I'm very pleased with the linebacking corp. Potentially one of the best.

No question there. Lee and Carter are blue chippers. Just have to stay healthy.

I think the corners are excellent.

And I like our uniforms.

The safeties seem to have potential to be one of the better groups the Cowboys have put out there in several seasons (not that it would be hard to do), but we need to see these guys in action in order to be sure.

That's a nice spin on it. We could have the best safety tandem in years and still be no better than mediocre.

But next year J.J. is dy-no-mite.

Overall, I'm thinking this is a top-10 defense.

I'm thinking more like middle of the pack. 14-18.
 

MichaelWinicki

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Reports are suggesting that he looks like a veteran out there. I could see him at least splitting time with Allen. Especially if we can get some early leads going.

I think you're reading the reports very optimistically.

Yes he is showing something especially with his aggressiveness but he's still (according to reports) more likely to bite on the first person coming through his zone rather than being more patient/more experienced at route recognition and waiting to see how routes are actually developing.

Yeah you'll see him out there in situations but doubtful you'll see him take a starting job this season UNLESS his route recognition jumps a notch or two.
 

Galian Beast

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I think you're reading the reports very optimistically.

Yes he is showing something especially with his aggressiveness but he's still (according to reports) more likely to bite on the first person coming through his zone rather than being more patient/more experienced at route recognition and waiting to see how routes are actually developing.

Yeah you'll see him out there in situations but doubtful you'll see him take a starting job this season UNLESS his route recognition jumps a notch or two.

That's the thing, if Wilcox is as good as he is now... just imagine where he would be around week 9. Guy has very limited safety experience, yet he appears to be picking it up very quickly. The Cowboys really bought low here, and the stock is going way up.
 

Risen Star

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One other thing, Defense with Bernie scares me. I don't like going to war with a guy who salt and sugar kicks his rear.
 

Risen Star

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I think you're reading the reports very optimistically.

Yes he is showing something especially with his aggressiveness but he's still (according to reports) more likely to bite on the first person coming through his zone rather than being more patient/more experienced at route recognition and waiting to see how routes are actually developing.

Yeah you'll see him out there in situations but doubtful you'll see him take a starting job this season UNLESS his route recognition jumps a notch or two.

Go find another team, hater.
 

Galian Beast

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As for being middle of the pack, I'd like to point out we were 16th in Rob Ryan's first year, and 24th in his second year (riddled with injuries).

I'd be very surprised if we were middle of the pack this year. Especially if the offense is more consistent.
 

Risen Star

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As for being middle of the pack, I'd like to point out we were 16th in Rob Ryan's first year, and 24th in his second year (riddled with injuries).

I'd be very surprised if we were middle of the pack this year. Especially if the offense is more consistent.

Yeah but I'd rather have Rob Ryan. I wasn't down with the scapegoating of him. He was not a problem at all.
 

Galian Beast

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Yeah but I'd rather have Rob Ryan. I wasn't down with the scapegoating of him. He was not a problem at all.

I liked Rob Ryan, but I think he was part of the problem.

1. I think the 3-4 was part of the problem. Majority of NFL players are still suited and experienced for the 4-3.
- Less available free agents to plug in due to injury.

2. Rob Ryan's defense was too complex.
- Free agents took time to get involved in the defense.
- Rookies didn't contribute very quickly.

3. 3-4 means rookies have to learn a new position going into the nfl.
- It's already hard being a rookie in the nfl, but you add on top of that learning a new position... that's difficult.

4. I don't think Rob Ryan focused enough on technique and fundamentals.
 

Risen Star

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I liked Rob Ryan, but I think he was part of the problem.

1. I think the 3-4 was part of the problem. Majority of NFL players are still suited and experienced for the 4-3.
- Less available free agents to plug in due to injury.

2. Rob Ryan's defense was too complex.
- Free agents took time to get involved in the defense.
- Rookies didn't contribute very quickly.

3. 3-4 means rookies have to learn a new position going into the nfl.
- It's already hard being a rookie in the nfl, but you add on top of that learning a new position... that's difficult.

4. I don't think Rob Ryan focused enough on technique and fundamentals.

We'll agree to disagree. That's the company line you just gave me. I much prefer a 3-4 over a 4-3 and believe the best defenses in the game over the last 20 years have mostly been 3-4 defenses.
 

Galian Beast

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We'll agree to disagree. That's the company line you just gave me. I much prefer a 3-4 over a 4-3 and believe the best defenses in the game over the last 20 years have mostly been 3-4 defenses.

I think much of the league has started slowly shifting away from the 3-4. It seems to be a phase, and it obviously still works for some teams, but I think personnel wise it can hurt you when you face injuries. I also think as I said earlier, that it is harder to bring new players into it (which I think is objective not subjective).
 

Risen Star

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I think much of the league has started slowly shifting away from the 3-4. It seems to be a phase, and it obviously still works for some teams, but I think personnel wise it can hurt you when you face injuries. I also think as I said earlier, that it is harder to bring new players into it (which I think is objective not subjective).

The reason why the 3-4 really started was it's easier to find rush LBs than it is a pass rushing DE who can hold up against the run. That's still true today.

20 plus years of dominance. Some phase. You should send that memo to Philly as they transition out of a 4-3 and into a 3-4. Send it to the 2 Super Bowl participants too.
 
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