The defense might be really good

[Cloudy]

It keeps going back to health with me. If we can field a healthy defense, I have no doubt that it will be a top 5 defense in the league.

Who was everyone raving about before he had to get surgery? Anthony Spencer. Who are we raving about now? Ware and Hatcher. Can you imagine what that would look like if Ratliff can get in there and play? That sounds like a really good defensive line to me. I'm sure we will have to address the position at length in the next draft and free agency period, but for now I think this can be a strength for us. I would probably give up the entire draft to get Clowney to combine him with Ware. That being said, let's not forget Kyle Wilber who seems to be coming on.

I think we're all more than impressed by our linebackers. When your weak links are Durant or Sims who both seem to be having pretty strong camps... I think that says a lot about your linebacker corp. The real weakness that we were all afraid of was in the secondary, where we are appearing to look stacked with potential.

Carr and Claiborne should pay dividends this year, but Scandrick seems like he is have a pretty decent camp. And the competition seems to be bringing the best out of people. Not just against the wide receivers, but among the corners. That is what competition does for a team. We're stacked at wide receiver, so every receiver is pushing their hardest to just make the team. Williams, Harris, Beasley, Rogers, Armstrong. Some of these guys are fighting for the 3 spot, some are fighting to make the roster. Because they have to fight so hard, they are a handful for the corners, who are also in the same position. The position groups make other position groups work harder and the cycle continues.

We're stacked at tight end, which should make these safeties have to work much harder. And we have some interesting things happening at safety. I think before camp most of us wanted Will Allen to be cut, but it looks like he might be great for this defense with a lot of young safeties, especially for Church. That being said JJ Wilcox seems to be a game changer back there. Matt Johnson just needs to stay healthy and continue to progress. Haven't heard too much about Hamilton, but I'm sure we will see him more in preseason.

As these cuts come closer, this team is only going to get better. I feel sorry for Miami right now.

The best thing about our defense is that it is a pretty young defense, except for the defensive line. Our linebackers are young enough, our secondary is extremely young. Future drafts can focus almost entirely on the defensive line (and offensive line as I will touch upon in another thread)

Only and idiot would find reason we shouldn't or can't field a top 5 defense given reasonable health. For me it's mostly about Ware's health. If he's on the field for 15 or more games, we have more than enough to field a top 5 defense.

Listen to NFL people talk defense, personel and what matters most. Those people drawing a check from an NFL franchise will tell you it's all about pass rush and cover corners.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Only and idiot would find reason we shouldn't or can't field a top 5 defense given reasonable health. For me it's mostly about Ware's health. If he's on the field for 15 or more games, we have more than enough to field a top 5 defense.

Listen to NFL people talk defense, personel and what matters most. Those people drawing a check from an NFL franchise will tell you it's all about pass rush and cover corners.

Then I'm an idiot. I would be shocked if the defense finishes top 5 with the safeties and defensive tackles we have

 

[RastaRocket]

Only and idiot would find reason we shouldn't or can't field a top 5 defense given reasonable health. For me it's mostly about Ware's health. If he's on the field for 15 or more games, we have more than enough to field a top 5 defense.

Listen to NFL people talk defense, personel and what matters most. Those people drawing a check from an NFL franchise will tell you it's all about pass rush and cover corners.

Ware is always on the field 15+ games though...

 

[Ratmatt]

It keeps going back to health with me. If we can field a healthy defense, I have no doubt that it will be a top 5 defense in the league.

Who was everyone raving about before he had to get surgery? Anthony Spencer. Who are we raving about now? Ware and Hatcher. Can you imagine what that would look like if Ratliff can get in there and play? That sounds like a really good defensive line to me. I'm sure we will have to address the position at length in the next draft and free agency period, but for now I think this can be a strength for us. I would probably give up the entire draft to get Clowney to combine him with Ware. That being said, let's not forget Kyle Wilber who seems to be coming on.

I think we're all more than impressed by our linebackers. When your weak links are Durant or Sims who both seem to be having pretty strong camps... I think that says a lot about your linebacker corp. The real weakness that we were all afraid of was in the secondary, where we are appearing to look stacked with potential.

Carr and Claiborne should pay dividends this year, but Scandrick seems like he is have a pretty decent camp. And the competition seems to be bringing the best out of people. Not just against the wide receivers, but among the corners. That is what competition does for a team. We're stacked at wide receiver, so every receiver is pushing their hardest to just make the team. Williams, Harris, Beasley, Rogers, Armstrong. Some of these guys are fighting for the 3 spot, some are fighting to make the roster. Because they have to fight so hard, they are a handful for the corners, who are also in the same position. The position groups make other position groups work harder and the cycle continues.

We're stacked at tight end, which should make these safeties have to work much harder. And we have some interesting things happening at safety. I think before camp most of us wanted Will Allen to be cut, but it looks like he might be great for this defense with a lot of young safeties, especially for Church. That being said JJ Wilcox seems to be a game changer back there. Matt Johnson just needs to stay healthy and continue to progress. Haven't heard too much about Hamilton, but I'm sure we will see him more in preseason.

As these cuts come closer, this team is only going to get better. I feel sorry for Miami right now.

The best thing about our defense is that it is a pretty young defense, except for the defensive line. Our linebackers are young enough, our secondary is extremely young. Future drafts can focus almost entirely on the defensive line (and offensive line as I will touch upon in another thread)

I totally agree with you.The success of the defense will totally depend upon how healthy they stay.

 

[starfrombirth]

It doesn't matter what your defensive scheme is. What matters is the talent level of the players running it.

you mean like Warren Sapp who had a Hall of Fame career at Tampa Bay and Then went to Oakland and did nothing?

 

[Cloudy]

Then I'm an idiot. I would be shocked if the defense finishes top 5 with the safeties and defensive tackles we have

Fair enough. But how do you feel about the other 7 projected starters and the depth?
I don't agree a defense is limited by it's weakest link. Go find last year's top 5 defenses and I promise you you'll find a few starters on each one you wouldn't trade for. Starters you wouldn't "feel good about" starting for the Cowboys in 2013.

I understand the fan mentality at work here. We all want the best. If a player isn't a star like Ware, a solid well above average perfomer like Spencer or Carr or a really good looking young player with tons of upside like Clairborne or Carter......then he's a liability you can't win with.

 

[Doc50]

The reason why the 3-4 really started was it's easier to find rush LBs than it is a pass rushing DE who can hold up against the run. That's still true today.

20 plus years of dominance. Some phase. You should send that memo to Philly as they transition out of a 4-3 and into a 3-4. Send it to the 2 Super Bowl participants too.

Respectfully disagree.
Fundamentals of 4-3 DE are taught from Pee Wee through college, as are the 3 LB set. Much more likely to find a multitude of those players in the draft, without having to teach them new techniques or reads.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Fair enough. But how do you feel about the other 7 projected starters and the depth?
I don't agree a defense is limited by it's weakest link. Go find last year's top 5 defenses and I promise you you'll find a few starters on each one you wouldn't trade for. Starters you wouldn't "feel good about" starting for the Cowboys in 2013.

I understand the fan mentality at work here. We all want the best. If a player isn't a star like Ware, a solid well above average perfomer like Spencer or Carr or a really good looking young player with tons of upside like Clairborne or Carter......then he's a liability you can't win with.

I just think it will take too many best case scenarios to crack top 5. Too many question marks at safety and our run defense scares me. Hatche and Bass may get some good penetration, but who's gonna draw the double teams AND not get pushed back? Jay Ratliff? Talk to me when he's on the field. Sean Lissimore? Solid rotational player, but that's it. Brent would've been a perfect role player here, but obviously he has no business playing for the foreseeable

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Respectfully disagree.
Fundamentals of 4-3 DE are taught from Pee Wee through college, as are the 3 LB set. Much more likely to find a multitude of those players in the draft, without having to teach them new techniques or reads.

It's easier to find 3-4 OLBs because a minority of teams run a 3-4. That's why Pittsburgh was able to find OLBs year after year in the latter rounds. It has gotten a bit harder since about a quarter or third of the league run a 3-4 now, but it's still easier to find OLBs than DEs just because the criteria isn't as strict and those players aren't as in demand.

 

[ilykdrama]

Don't know how anyone couldn't give the D huge props from last night. No starters facing the Dolphins first teamers (for the most part) and our 2nd and 3rd unit manhandled them, specifically our front 4. Plug in our starters with the same D, I have no idea why you couldn't see them as a top 5 defense.

 

[Risen Star]

Respectfully disagree.
Fundamentals of 4-3 DE are taught from Pee Wee through college, as are the 3 LB set. Much more likely to find a multitude of those players in the draft, without having to teach them new techniques or reads.

It's not about technique. It's about a player being athletic enough to be a good edge rusher while also being stout enough to handle the running game with his hand in the dirt. Those guys are rare.

 

[5Stars]

Respectfully disagree.
Fundamentals of 4-3 DE are taught from Pee Wee through college, as are the 3 LB set. Much more likely to find a multitude of those players in the draft, without having to teach them new techniques or reads.

I totally agree with this. It is much easier to find 4-3 players than 3-4 for the simple fact that you stated.

 

[Teague31]

Lee and Carter are going to thrive in this system.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

I totally agree with this. It is much easier to find 4-3 players than 3-4 for the simple fact that you stated.

So how much do you weigh the fact that 21 or so teams look for x, y and z in a DE and 11 or so teams look for only x and y in OLBers, in what is pretty much the same pool of players?

 

[5Stars]

So how much do you weigh the fact that 21 or so teams look for x, y and z in a DE and 11 or so teams look for only x and y in OLBers, in what is pretty much the same pool of players?

Don't ask me....!

lmao

 

[cml750]

So how much do you weigh the fact that 21 or so teams look for x, y and z in a DE and 11 or so teams look for only x and y in OLBers, in what is pretty much the same pool of players?

Teams seem to have an ideal for a DE just like they do for every position. The problem is they get a little too carried away looking for these ideals instead of looking to see if they are players or not. Under Jimmy Johnson we thrived with smaller defensive ends. Haley was a converted 3 - 4 OLB. Ware and Spencer are players that will play well and thrive no matter what scheme we use.I personally prefer the 4 - 3 because the DE never drop back in coverage in that system. They have only outside containment on run plays and getting to the QB on passes as their responsibilities. In a 3- 4 the OLB's are usually the best pass rushers and to me it is stupid to have one of them drop into coverage.

 

[cowboys2233]

We'll agree to disagree. That's the company line you just gave me. I much prefer a 3-4 over a 4-3 and believe the best defenses in the game over the last 20 years have mostly been 3-4 defenses.

That's just crazy talk. The 4-3 is a man's defense, the 3-4 is all about trickery and tomfoolery. The 3-4 belongs in the AFC with the sissy teams.

 

[Fletch]

Give me the 4-3 over the 3-4 and Rob Ryan any day. 14-18 ranked defense? Meh. Top 10.

 

[Fletch]

That's just crazy talk. The 4-3 is a man's defense, the 3-4 is all about trickery and tomfoolery. The 3-4 belongs in the AFC with the sissy teams.

Couldn't agree more. But RS has spoken. Now kneel before Zod!

 

[Risen Star]

Couldn't agree more. But RS has spoken. Now kneel before Zod!

Or just re-watch the Super Bowl.