The evidence of a Zeke decline

[quickccc]

until this year, i didn;t zeke fumble prone, ..but his concentration and technique is cleary in question and it becomes
a matter of him dwelling on it with every touch and carry from this point on .

i thought it was a matter of a certain ATL linebacker with great punch technique but now that's just zeke either laxing up at the wrong time or poor technique. But i really believe he will be thinking and tensing up to protect the ball vs playing for big plays

 

[Praxit]

..the guy is becoming an embarrassment of player. Number #1 priority of RB is ball security. His declined is the fastest I've seen of RB's. Morris had more gas in the tank at 33 yrs old.

 

[Cmac]

Lol, still defending this clown. There is so much wrong with this post.

1) This is why you don’t draft RB’s high and especially give them fat contracts. Most RB’s would have similar or more success than zeke is they all needed or had the same top 5 O line he’s had since day 1.

2) RB’s like Barkley were putting up equivalent numbers to zeke and they were running behind some of the worst O lines in the league which is more evidence how over rated zeke has been.

3) The O line isn’t responsible for zeke’s fumbles.

4) He demanded to be paid as the best back in the league. If he truly was, he wouldn’t need a top O line.

5) Even when he has room, he doesn’t have the speed, he doesn’t make people miss and often rather go out of bounds.

6) When he has had top O lines he always ranked average to below average in individual talents which shows how dependent he was on the O line. Broken tackles, yards after catch, yards after contact, forced missed tackles, elusiveness, yards from scrimmage, short yard situations...the list goes on.

Those are mostly individual talents that are on him, not the O line and now he’s been exploited at how much he lacks compared to other backs. He rarely makes people miss, can’t get around the edge, etc. He’s nothing but a glorified fullback who can block well and get a few yards if he has a 10 ft wide hole to run through.

Just stop. He’s been exposed. He’s not worth it and never was.

BTW, what other player held out with two years left on his contract and wouldn’t play until he was paid at the highest for his position? What other player “demanded respect?”

zeke brought this upon himself, demand to be paid as the best you better play as the best every game whether or not you have a top 5-10 O line.

Did my post irritate you that much Aria?.....Don't take it out on me....I'm not on the team. Damn!!!....you really don't like Zeke beyond his contract....I got it. Hope the day is going great for you. Can't defend Zeke's latest miscues, at all, but the energy would be even more justifiable if you spread it fairly.....because there is a lot to go around for this team. Wear your jersey proudly. I got it. Trade Zeke. How you'd feel about my favorite player Dez?

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

until this year, i didn;t zeke fumble prone, ..but his concentration and technique is cleary in question and it becomes
a matter of him dwelling on it with every touch and carry from this point on .

i thought it was a matter of a certain ATL linebacker with great punch technique but now that's just zeke either laxing up at the wrong time or poor technique. But i really believe he will be thinking and tensing up to protect the ball vs playing for big plays

He has 14 fumbles since 2018 (and we still have 10 gaMen’s to go).

This isn’t just a 2020 thing.

 

[Cmac]

Zeke is not the main problem here. The lack of cohesive team building is the bigger problem. The 78 year old insecure billionaire in the owner’s box is the biggest problem we have.

Bobhaze…...I see that.....others don't seem to recognize that. Team is poorly ran, no accountability, no player development, a 2 page playbook, and has no heart and a fan base seeking a fall guy every year.....with quickness.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

I would love to see try to run a 40 now. Actually I would like to see him try to do all the combine drills. The loss of explosion is staggering. Can you imagine fat boy trying to hurdle the defender or jump into the kettle these days. Bwaaaahahahahahahaha.

He’s noticeably slower. Folks that think he hasn’t lost speed and quickness are sincerely nuts.

He’s transformed into a glorified power back.

 

[GridironGreat]

He’s still a solid player. He’s young. We can’t afford him with all the issues this team has, and I’d rather have Dak than Zeke.

Trade him and rebuild the defense and O-line next season.

 

[CWR]

The numbers don’t lie. Ezekiel Elliott is showing multiple signs of a decline in the performance most people assumed wouldn’t happen until for at least 2-3 more seasons before declining. He’s only 25, but he has a ton of touches on his tire treads. It’s hard not to wonder if he will never again have that magnetic playmaking ability he had at the beginning of career.

When Zeke hit the scene in 2016, he showed an incredible combination of power, speed and playmaking ability. Behind that once great OL, Zeke was clearly the best RB in the league from 2016-18. But the last two seasons, his burst and ability to break a big run has dropped precipitously.

Here is some of the stat evidence:

• Yards per carry- 2016: 5.1, 2017: 4.1, 2018: 4.7, 2019: 4.5, 2019: 4.1
• Yards per game- 2016: 108, 2017: 98, 2018: 95, 2018: 95, 2019: 85, 2020: 69
• Yards after contact: only have numbers since 2018 but he has finished 4th, 6th and 7th the last 3 seasons in yards after contact.

And the fumbles....Omg...Zeke has the most fumbles of any RB since he came in the league- specifically 22 fumbles since he came in the league, but he’s had 14 fumbles in just the last two seasons, losing 7. And you can’t say it’s because he has more touches. Because Derrick Henry, Christian McCaffrey, and Joe Mixon have comparable touches, but have much fewer fumbles. Henry and McCaffrey have had 5 fumbles each, while Joe Mixon has only had one fumble the last two years!

I believe Zeke still has talent and can be a big contributor. But it is no longer in doubt, he has not what he used to be. And with this makeshift OL in front of him now, he is almost on his own.

And he has a big contract.

I wonder how much of his decline is from a lack of focus or really caring about team goals?

Its a bad thing to say but we've seen guys celebrating routine plays when we are down 3 tds. There are a lot of selfish looking players on this team. I know its a business, but I've never been reminded of that more than the last couple years. Zekes hold out was bush league. After JJ went to bat for him on the suspension for him to do that early in a year we were thinking was supposed to be special was frustrating.

 

[aria]

Did my post irritate you that much Aria?.....Don't take it out on me....I'm not on the team. Damn!!!....you really don't like Zeke beyond his contract....I got it. Hope the day is going great for you. Can't defend Zeke's latest miscues, at all, but the energy would be even more justifiable if you spread it fairly.....because there is a lot to go around for this team. Wear your jersey proudly. I got it. Trade Zeke. How you'd feel about my favorite player Dez?

Listen man, I get it, the whole team played like crap but there is ONE player who sat out with two years left, there is ONE player who demanded to be paid the highest at his position, there is ONE player that most of us expect to step up on offense. Out of everyone on this team, he’s the last one anyone should be making excuses for or sympathizing with.

If this were his rookie year or he took some team friendly deal I wouldn't be nearly as harsh but he set the standard for himself with his shenanigans so I expect him to meet those standards and when he doesn’t I will call him out on it every time. Last night was just the icing on the cake, he’s been playing like crap all year.

Yes, there’s lots of blame to go around, especially on defense, but as you know I’m good at hating and that’s because I focus on one player. There’s only so much hate I can dish out at once and be good it by backing up with stats and facts. I’ll make comments about Dlaw and Smith here and there but I don’t know enough about their stats compared to their peers over the past 5 years to hold my own when bashing them. I could rely on the eye test but I like to bring facts and logic to an argument.

It’s nothing personal against you but it seems like you were deflecting quite a bit of blame for him or upset that a lot of people were criticizing him more than others and that’s because he deserves the most, especially after last night.

 

[beacamdim]

I want the Zeke stans to personally apologize to my boy Aria. The good news is the Giants are going to give Barkley more money then Zeke this offseason.

Thanks to the ACL injury, the Giants have in fact dodged that bullet this year -- Saquon and the team will wait until he has come back from the injury to discuss a long term deal. They have plenty of time, since they can pick up his fifth year option, play out the fourth year, and evaluate after the season.

Lucky break for the G-men (not on the field, but regarding their cap).

And as for the whole Zeke/Saquon thing -- I think we all see now (as you point out) that the OL here and in NY has a whole lot to do with this.

PS -- Saquon has ONE fumble in his entire NFL career. And the Giants recovered.

 

[Cmac]

Listen man, I get it, the whole team played like crap but there is ONE player who sat out with two years left, there is ONE player who demanded to be paid the highest at his position, there is ONE player that most of us expect to step up on offense. Out of everyone on this team, he’s the last one anyone should be making excuses for or sympathizing with.

If this were his rookie year or he took some team friendly deal I wouldn't be nearly as harsh but he set the standard for himself with his shenanigans so I expect him to meet those standards and when he doesn’t I will call him out on it every time. Last night was just the icing on the cake, he’s been playing like crap all year.

Yes, there’s lots of blame to go around, especially on defense, but as you know I’m good at hating and that’s because I focus on one player. There’s only so much hate I can dish out at once and be good it by backing up with stats and facts. I’ll make comments about Dlaw and Smith here and there but I don’t know enough about their stats compared to their peers over the past 5 years to hold my own when bashing them. I could rely on the eye test but I like to bring facts and logic to an argument.

It’s nothing personal against you but it seems like you were deflecting quite a bit of blame for him or upset that a lot of people were criticizing him more than others and that’s because he deserves the most, especially after last night.

Nothing personal against you either.....never upset nor deflecting Zeke's fumbles. He had and has been having some bad games.....can't dispute that one bit. What amazes me, is the bigger problem with this team.....some/many failures go unmentioned....I saw missed blocks, poor execution, undisciplined play, effort issues (OBJ late TD run/Last Card TD), frequent evidence of staff being outcoached......and the dismissal of all that is to run toward Zeke or Jaylon Smith or DLawrence with frequency. It's bigger that all 3 of them why this team sucks royally. That's all. Go Pollard (a ST nightmare a few games ago). All good and I hope the dog didn't get kicked this morning.

Question for you: How'd you feel about JWitt starting last year over Jarwin, or his play?

 

[Cattle_Rancher]

I said all along should of let him play out his 5 year deal then if worth it tag him if still worth it tag him again then let him walk. The Jones caved when they held the high ground. One of the biggest problems in this organization is they don't know who to give the big deals to and when.

 

[5Stars]

Honestly, I also think Dak not being there is messing with his head even more. The OL isn't helping either.

I have not read this whole thread, but this is what I'm thinking about also...the OL is a mess from when Zeke had first came here and had good numbers...now he needs to run this team, his buddy is out, and the team is soft...he got his 'big ole bag o cash'...money talks, bullchit walks.

 

[blueblood70]

Dak's turnovers are for a separate discussion since we are talking about Zeke after all.

Lets do some comparing of other RB's in Zekes "League"

Henry - 7 fumbles in under 4 1/2 years. 5 last year. Now that is an anomaly.
Barcley - 1 fumble in under 2 1/2 years
McCaffrey - 7 fumbles in under 3 1/2 years
Gurley - 15 fumbles in under 5 1/2 years
Cook - 8 fumbles in under 3 1/2 years
Chubb - 4 fumbles in under 2 1/2 years
Kamara - 6 fumbles in under 3 1/2 years

In my honest opinion, it has nothing to do with amount of touches, its sloppy play on his part.

oh no it matters puts it into perspective they want zeke benched oir traded using fumbles now as more ammo

well 34 fumbles and 40 ints are far more mistakes then zeke has made,, so dont pay Dak either if zeke was mistake..

btw bad list most of them are on IR so much they dont have chance to fumble..zekes never missed game, is superior blocker, and has skins on the wall..

again 19 career fumbles not good look but 74 turnovers by Dak also not good look..got it,, keep making lists

 

[beacamdim]

oh no it matters puts it into perspective they want zeke benched oir traded using fumbles now as more ammo

well 34 fumbles and 40 ints are far more mistakes then zeke has made,, so dont pay Dak either if zeke was mistake..

btw bad list most of them are on IR so much they dont have chance to fumble..zekes never missed game, is superior blocker, and has skins on the wall..

again 19 career fumbles not good look but 74 turnovers by Dak also not good look..got it,, keep making lists

Dude this makes no sense. Dak touches the ball on nearly every play. Zeke does not.

Based on percentage, Zeke is a TO machine compared to Dak.

 

[blueblood70]

Dude this makes no sense. Dak touches the ball on nearly every play. Zeke does not.

Based on percentage, Zeke is a TO machine compared to Dak.

no flipping way you are going to try to flip that excuse!

Daks TOs this season has been just as bad leading to losses,,,73 is insane its not normal for qb to 34 fumbles,, thats an issue..dont care how much hes touching it...no excuses for anyone..you want to pile on zeke

ill pile on Dak because 34 fumbles is far from normal for qb , dude same time frame twice as many lmao add in INT well none of it is good..


they all lead to poor seasons.. 9-7, 8-8, 2-4 yup our stars are creating issues pass blame on whomever you like because my eyes are wide open, daks turnovers are also issues like now Dalton in 5.5 qtrs has 3 tos..sure not all his fault but point is it happens..

these are team loses but if you want o ry and pin it on one player say zeke ill counter with Dak, Gallup, amari, the OL, coaching, and STs all of it has been bad at one piit or anther..

theres no one player or group that can fix this, team wide issues..

 

[RonnieT24]

oh no it matters puts it into perspective they want zeke benched oir traded using fumbles now as more ammo

well 34 fumbles and 40 ints are far more mistakes then zeke has made,, so dont pay Dak either if zeke was mistake..

btw bad list most of them are on IR so much they dont have chance to fumble..zekes never missed game, is superior blocker, and has skins on the wall..

again 19 career fumbles not good look but 74 turnovers by Dak also not good look..got it,, keep making lists

Dak does not have 74 turnovers in his career. He has 34 fumbles but has only lost 21. He had that really weird year two years ago when the ball kept slipping out of his hand then bouncing right back to him. He had 12 fumbles that year but if I'm mistaken only lost about half of them. Dak has been playing 70 snaps a game for 70 games (4900 snaps) and 61 career turnovers. You do the math. Percentage-wise that's tiny under 1.3% of the time while handling the ball every snap. By comparison Zeke has 1270 carries and 221 receptions in his career for a total of 1491 touches and has lost 14 fumbles. That comes in at .9% of his touches. Suffice it to say that neither guy is a "turnover machine."

For some perspective if we go look at Emmitt Smith who I think we all can agree was pretty good about taking care of the ball.. Emmitt had lost 19 fumbles at this stage of his career. Troy Aikman lost 44 fumbles and threw 141 interceptions in his career. Seems like Dak and Zeke stack up pretty favorably against two hall of famer's in at least this category. I'm prepared to consider this spate of fumbles for Zeke an outlier. Dude has never turned the ball over like this and I assume he will regain his focus and stop it at some point if not this year then he can hammer on it all offseason and we never see it again..

 

[TwoDeep3]

The numbers don’t lie. Ezekiel Elliott is showing multiple signs of a decline in the performance most people assumed wouldn’t happen until for at least 2-3 more seasons before declining. He’s only 25, but he has a ton of touches on his tire treads. It’s hard not to wonder if he will never again have that magnetic playmaking ability he had at the beginning of career.

When Zeke hit the scene in 2016, he showed an incredible combination of power, speed and playmaking ability. Behind that once great OL, Zeke was clearly the best RB in the league from 2016-18. But the last two seasons, his burst and ability to break a big run has dropped precipitously.

Here is some of the stat evidence:

• Yards per carry- 2016: 5.1, 2017: 4.1, 2018: 4.7, 2019: 4.5, 2019: 4.1
• Yards per game- 2016: 108, 2017: 98, 2018: 95, 2018: 95, 2019: 85, 2020: 69
• Yards after contact: only have numbers since 2018 but he has finished 4th, 6th and 7th the last 3 seasons in yards after contact.

And the fumbles....Omg...Zeke has the most fumbles of any RB since he came in the league- specifically 22 fumbles since he came in the league, but he’s had 14 fumbles in just the last two seasons, losing 7. And you can’t say it’s because he has more touches. Because Derrick Henry, Christian McCaffrey, and Joe Mixon have comparable touches, but have much fewer fumbles. Henry and McCaffrey have had 5 fumbles each, while Joe Mixon has only had one fumble the last two years!

I believe Zeke still has talent and can be a big contributor. But it is no longer in doubt, he has not what he used to be. And with this makeshift OL in front of him now, he is almost on his own.

And he has a big contract.

Nice research, but I disagree. fans here (I am not including you in this statement, Bobhaze) evidently think a running back can get the yards, even without an offensive line.

The myth about Barry sanders was his line did not block. They did block and moved people so he could free lance.

Zeke needs to stop fumbling. But his production is more beholding to the state of the offensive line than anything else. He is part of the reason the team is woefully behind. But his production has slipped because we have a group of men who couldn't block a group of cub scouts from an ice cream truck.

This is a frustrating year, I admit. But I see a lot of quitters on this board when it comes to this team. From coaches to players, there is a great deal of blame going around. Some of it is justified. The fire X and cut Y is ridiculous.

 

[ArtClink]

Fat contract and no incentive to play hard is Zeke's problem. He answers to no one except the Jones boys. Root cause solved.

 

[Bobhaze]

no flipping way you are going to try to flip that excuse!

Daks TOs this season has been just as bad leading to losses,,,73 is insane its not normal for qb to 34 fumbles,, thats an issue..dont care how much hes touching it...no excuses for anyone..you want to pile on zeke

ill pile on Dak because 34 fumbles is far from normal for qb , dude same time frame twice as many lmao add in INT well none of it is good..


they all lead to poor seasons.. 9-7, 8-8, 2-4 yup our stars are creating issues pass blame on whomever you like because my eyes are wide open, daks turnovers are also issues like now Dalton in 5.5 qtrs has 3 tos..sure not all his fault but point is it happens..

these are team loses but if you want o ry and pin it on one player say zeke ill counter with Dak, Gallup, amari, the OL, coaching, and STs all of it has been bad at one piit or anther..

theres no one player or group that can fix this, team wide issues..

Actually Blu, the facts are that every season the most fumbles are always by QBs. Dak has not been one of the worst fumblers the last 3 seasons.

Here are his fumble numbers the last three years:

• 2020- Dak had 3 fumbles, losing 3. He was 14th in fumbles so far this year. By comparison, Zeke has had 7 fumbles, losing 6
• 2019- Dak had 6 fumbles, losing 2. He was 22nd in fumbles. He had less fumbles than Matt Ryan, Lamar Jackson, Andy Dalton, Deshaun Watson, Jimmy Garoppolo, Kirk Cousins, Baker Mayfield and many more. He lost one more fumble than Tom Brady by comparison.
• 2018- in 2018, Dak had 12 fumbles, losing 6, which was his worst year, finishing 4th but still ahead of Jared Goff (who went to the SB that year) Lamar Jackson and Derek Carr.

In 2019, the top 17 fumblers were QBs, and same in 2018 and 2017. Why? Two reasons: 1. Because QBs handle the ball every single play. 2. QBs often fumble due to strip sacks where they are preparing to throw.

Dak has always been one of the league’s best at not throwing INTs:

• As of this year, Dak Prescott is 4th all time in TD to Interception ratio behind only Aaron Rodgers, Russell Wilson and Tom Brady. That’s all time, not just last 5 seasons.

Whatever you want to say about Dak, one thing is clear, he is NOT a turnover machine. The evidence is clear.