The evidence of a Zeke decline

[superonyx]

You would be a stan.

Your schtick is to run from thread to thread trying to defend Zeke’s honor and don’t provide a shred of credible counter argument.

Blaming it all on the o-line ain’t it stan.

Read my post on the first page and see if you can figure out my actual position. Im guessing you either can’t or won’t want to since you are one of those nerds who chase people around from thread to thread stating their position for them so you can start an argument.

 

[superonyx]

While this is absolutely true, the offensive line isn’t responsible for his fumbles. He was avoiding contact after coming back in post fumbles last night, running out of bounds instead of trying to make a move to pick up more yards.

Of course they are not responsible for his fumbles. They are largely responsible for his lack of overall production though. His fumbles are on him for sure. Nothing wrong with admitting players have issues and weaknesses.

we have some fans around these parts that would cut and fire everyone each week.

 

[Established1971]

this game is on Zeke

you have to give Dalton 1 mulligan for goodness sake, there wasnt even a preseason
the D played ok until it got out of hand

we were driving both times he fumbled, and they scored on both takeovers, swing those two TD's over to our side and the score is 24-24 instead of 38-10
Yeah, I know it doesnt work that way, but I couldnt help but notice that

He never lost more than 2 fumbles in a season and now after 6 games he has lost 4!!

I cant think of a time I disliked a home grown "superstar" as much as I dislike Zeke

 

[CowboyRoy]

The numbers don’t lie. Ezekiel Elliott is showing multiple signs of a decline in the performance most people assumed wouldn’t happen until for at least 2-3 more seasons before declining. He’s only 25, but he has a ton of touches on his tire treads. It’s hard not to wonder if he will never again have that magnetic playmaking ability he had at the beginning of career.

When Zeke hit the scene in 2016, he showed an incredible combination of power, speed and playmaking ability. Behind that once great OL, Zeke was clearly the best RB in the league from 2016-18. But the last two seasons, his burst and ability to break a big run has dropped precipitously.

Here is some of the stat evidence:

• Yards per carry- 2016: 5.1, 2017: 4.1, 2018: 4.7, 2019: 4.5, 2019: 4.1
• Yards per game- 2016: 108, 2017: 98, 2018: 95, 2018: 95, 2019: 85, 2020: 69
• Yards after contact: only have numbers since 2018 but he has finished 4th, 6th and 7th the last 3 seasons in yards after contact.

And the fumbles....Omg...Zeke has the most fumbles of any RB since he came in the league- specifically 22 fumbles since he came in the league, but he’s had 14 fumbles in just the last two seasons, losing 7. And you can’t say it’s because he has more touches. Because Derrick Henry, Christian McCaffrey, and Joe Mixon have comparable touches, but have much fewer fumbles. Henry and McCaffrey have had 5 fumbles each, while Joe Mixon has only had one fumble the last two years!

I believe Zeke still has talent and can be a big contributor. But it is no longer in doubt, he has not what he used to be. And with this makeshift OL in front of him now, he is almost on his own.

And he has a big contract.

I have been Zeke's biggest critic.................but you can see quite clearly that Zeke's career has trended pretty much right on Q with the decline of the Oline. So although its not all Zeke's fault, he really wasnt as good as he looked that first year. And the fact that a guy like Zeke, or any back depends on so many other factors, is EXACTLY why you dont pay them the big money.

Pay the Oline and the QB. Get a #1 WR............fill in the rest on offense. Spend all the rest of the money on defense.

Go cheap at RB all the time. Draft QB's and develop them as often as possible. Trade the QB's and trade the backs as their first renewal comes up. If a young QB develops, trade the incumbent and roll with the young stud.

This is how I would build my teams.

 

[Bobhaze]

I have been Zeke's biggest critic.................but you can see quite clearly that Zeke's career has trended pretty much right on Q with the decline of the Oline. So although its not all Zeke's fault, he really wasnt as good as he looked that first year. And the fact that a guy like Zeke, or any back depends on so many other factors, is EXACTLY why you dont pay them the big money.

Pay the Oline and the QB. Get a #1 WR............fill in the rest on offense. Spend all the rest of the money on defense.

Go cheap at RB all the time. Draft QB's and develop them as often as possible. Trade the QB's and trade the backs as their first renewal comes up. If a young QB develops, trade the incumbent and roll with the young stud.

This is how I would build my teams.

Roy I’m with except I wasn’t a big fan of paying Cooper either.

 

[baltcowboy]

Thanks to the ACL injury, the Giants have in fact dodged that bullet this year -- Saquon and the team will wait until he has come back from the injury to discuss a long term deal. They have plenty of time, since they can pick up his fifth year option, play out the fourth year, and evaluate after the season.

Lucky break for the G-men (not on the field, but regarding their cap).

And as for the whole Zeke/Saquon thing -- I think we all see now (as you point out) that the OL here and in NY has a whole lot to do with this.

PS -- Saquon has ONE fumble in his entire NFL career. And the Giants recovered.

His ACL injury means he will not set a foot on the field until he gets a new contract. Dak’s injury will change the whole mindset of the NFL players. I guarantee Lamar Jackson will get a contract extension before next season as well. Players are not going to take any chances.

 

[noshame]

I've said before and I probably say it again the guy has never been what he was in 2016

 

[tico]

DLaw, Crawford, JSmith, and now Zeke are anchors to this teams future.

 

[beacamdim]

His ACL injury means he will not set a foot on the field until he gets a new contract. Dak’s injury will change the whole mindset of the NFL players. I guarantee Lamar Jackson will get a contract extension before next season as well. Players are not going to take any chances.

This is entirely incorrect, based on reports here in NY AND common sense.

The only person who gets hurt if he holds out is Saquon. No one is paying him off an injury. The giants don’t have to sign him to a long term deal because they control him year to year for the next three seasons if they want to. Jerry did too - he’s just an idiot for paying Zeke when he had all the leverage and saddling this team with what is quickly becoming an crippling anchor of a contract.

And unlike Zeke, Barkley is a class act and a hardworking professional.

Don’t believe me?

See below:

https://www.___GET_REAL_URL___/s/sp...es-saquon-barkleys-injury-mean-124328010.html


https://www.___GET_REAL_URL___/s/www.nj.com/giants/2020/09/heres-how-agents-experts-say-saquon-barkleys-torn-acl-will-impact-contract-extension-talks-with-giants.html?outputType=amp

 

[baltcowboy]

This is entirely incorrect, based on reports here in NY AND common sense.

The only person who gets hurt if he holds out is Saquon. No one is paying him off an injury. The giants don’t have to sign him to a long term deal because they control him year to year for the next three seasons if they want to. Jerry did too - he’s just an idiot for paying Zeke when he had all the leverage and saddling this team with what is quickly becoming an crippling anchor of a contract.

And unlike Zeke, Barkley is a class act and a hardworking professional.

Don’t believe me?

See below:

https://www.___GET_REAL_URL___/s/sp...es-saquon-barkleys-injury-mean-124328010.html


https://www.___GET_REAL_URL___/s/www.nj.com/giants/2020/09/heres-how-agents-experts-say-saquon-barkleys-torn-acl-will-impact-contract-extension-talks-with-giants.html?outputType=amp

It’s an opinion dude. Both Zeke and CMC got paid early. His agent is playing nice now. Barkley wants his money. We will see come the 2021 season.

 

[cityochamps]

The numbers don’t lie. Ezekiel Elliott is showing multiple signs of a decline in the performance most people assumed wouldn’t happen until for at least 2-3 more seasons before declining. He’s only 25, but he has a ton of touches on his tire treads. It’s hard not to wonder if he will never again have that magnetic playmaking ability he had at the beginning of career.

When Zeke hit the scene in 2016, he showed an incredible combination of power, speed and playmaking ability. Behind that once great OL, Zeke was clearly the best RB in the league from 2016-18. But the last two seasons, his burst and ability to break a big run has dropped precipitously.

Here is some of the stat evidence:

• Yards per carry- 2016: 5.1, 2017: 4.1, 2018: 4.7, 2019: 4.5, 2019: 4.1
• Yards per game- 2016: 108, 2017: 98, 2018: 95, 2018: 95, 2019: 85, 2020: 69
• Yards after contact: only have numbers since 2018 but he has finished 4th, 6th and 7th the last 3 seasons in yards after contact.

And the fumbles....Omg...Zeke has the most fumbles of any RB since he came in the league- specifically 22 fumbles since he came in the league, but he’s had 14 fumbles in just the last two seasons, losing 7. And you can’t say it’s because he has more touches. Because Derrick Henry, Christian McCaffrey, and Joe Mixon have comparable touches, but have much fewer fumbles. Henry and McCaffrey have had 5 fumbles each, while Joe Mixon has only had one fumble the last two years!

I believe Zeke still has talent and can be a big contributor. But it is no longer in doubt, he has not what he used to be. And with this makeshift OL in front of him now, he is almost on his own.

And he has a big contract.

The days of getting 10 good years out of a RB are gone, the game gets tougher on bodies every year, strength and speed added to the defense has evolved into a severe punishment of RB's from year to year

 

[Bobhaze]

Bob Sturm made this chart making Zeke’s ball security issues clear.

 

[blueblood70]

Actually Blu, the facts are that every season the most fumbles are always by QBs. Dak has not been one of the worst fumblers the last 3 seasons.

Here are his fumble numbers the last three years:

• 2020- Dak had 3 fumbles, losing 3. He was 14th in fumbles so far this year. By comparison, Zeke has had 7 fumbles, losing 6
• 2019- Dak had 6 fumbles, losing 2. He was 22nd in fumbles. He had less fumbles than Matt Ryan, Lamar Jackson, Andy Dalton, Deshaun Watson, Jimmy Garoppolo, Kirk Cousins, Baker Mayfield and many more. He lost one more fumble than Tom Brady by comparison.
• 2018- in 2018, Dak had 12 fumbles, losing 6, which was his worst year, finishing 4th but still ahead of Jared Goff (who went to the SB that year) Lamar Jackson and Derek Carr.

In 2019, the top 17 fumblers were QBs, and same in 2018 and 2017. Why? Two reasons: 1. Because QBs handle the ball every single play. 2. QBs often fumble due to strip sacks where they are preparing to throw.

Dak has always been one of the league’s best at not throwing INTs:

• As of this year, Dak Prescott is 4th all time in TD to Interception ratio behind only Aaron Rodgers, Russell Wilson and Tom Brady. That’s all time, not just last 5 seasons.

Whatever you want to say about Dak, one thing is clear, he is NOT a turnover machine. The evidence is clear.

sorry but 74 TOS in under 5 seasons is a lot in my book...

neither player should be turning the ball over and BOTh have been responsible for losses this year, piling on zeke for his without mention of others is an issue..

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Read my post on the first page and see if you can figure out my actual position. Im guessing you either can’t or won’t want to since you are one of those nerds who chase people around from thread to thread stating their position for them so you can start an argument.

Actually hypocrite, that’d be you.

You run around thread to thread trying to defend Zeke’s honor, never actually engaging, just sniping, and then running off like you made a point.

 

[TwentyOne]

The numbers don’t lie. Ezekiel Elliott is showing multiple signs of a decline in the performance most people assumed wouldn’t happen until for at least 2-3 more seasons before declining. He’s only 25, but he has a ton of touches on his tire treads. It’s hard not to wonder if he will never again have that magnetic playmaking ability he had at the beginning of career.

When Zeke hit the scene in 2016, he showed an incredible combination of power, speed and playmaking ability. Behind that once great OL, Zeke was clearly the best RB in the league from 2016-18. But the last two seasons, his burst and ability to break a big run has dropped precipitously.

Here is some of the stat evidence:

• Yards per carry- 2016: 5.1, 2017: 4.1, 2018: 4.7, 2019: 4.5, 2019: 4.1
• Yards per game- 2016: 108, 2017: 98, 2018: 95, 2018: 95, 2019: 85, 2020: 69
• Yards after contact: only have numbers since 2018 but he has finished 4th, 6th and 7th the last 3 seasons in yards after contact.

And the fumbles....Omg...Zeke has the most fumbles of any RB since he came in the league- specifically 22 fumbles since he came in the league, but he’s had 14 fumbles in just the last two seasons, losing 7. And you can’t say it’s because he has more touches. Because Derrick Henry, Christian McCaffrey, and Joe Mixon have comparable touches, but have much fewer fumbles. Henry and McCaffrey have had 5 fumbles each, while Joe Mixon has only had one fumble the last two years!

I believe Zeke still has talent and can be a big contributor. But it is no longer in doubt, he has not what he used to be. And with this makeshift OL in front of him now, he is almost on his own.

And he has a big contract.

There is no need for a post like that.
Dont misnderstand me, it is a good post.

But everybody knows that Zeke is on the decline. And his contract is one of the worst we made. JJ all over it again!.

 

[aria]

Nothing personal against you either.....never upset nor deflecting Zeke's fumbles. He had and has been having some bad games.....can't dispute that one bit. What amazes me, is the bigger problem with this team.....some/many failures go unmentioned....I saw missed blocks, poor execution, undisciplined play, effort issues (OBJ late TD run/Last Card TD), frequent evidence of staff being outcoached......and the dismissal of all that is to run toward Zeke or Jaylon Smith or DLawrence with frequency. It's bigger that all 3 of them why this team sucks royally. That's all. Go Pollard (a ST nightmare a few games ago). All good and I hope the dog didn't get kicked this morning.

Question for you: How'd you feel about JWitt starting last year over Jarwin, or his play?

I get it man but even though I should hold them accountable, I’m not going to bash a bunch of 2nd string O linemen, I expect them to not do well even though it’s their job. A guy who holds the team hostage and demands to be paid the highest for his position? He damn well better play like it every game whetherhe has a top O line or not.

Everyone knows I don’t like zeke as a person but I’ve always said it’s dumb to pay a RB that much money or waste a high draft pick on a RB. Barkley seems like a stand up dude but I would laugh my *** off if the Gnats give him a big contract and they totally blew it by using the 2nd overall pick on him.

You’re right though, the entire team is an over rated joke. I even bought into a lot of the player hype. I was always skeptical about McCarthy and caught a lot of flak for saying his record may have been misleading due to Rodgers. As skeptical as I am, I may say some negative things about him, but I almost always give QB’s, coaches, and most other positions (not all) a year before I cast judgement.

 

[Cmac]

I get it man but even though I should hold them accountable, I’m not going to bash a bunch of 2nd string O linemen, I expect them to not do well even though it’s their job. A guy who holds the team hostage and demands to be paid the highest for his position? He damn well better play like it every game whetherhe has a top O line or not.

Everyone knows I don’t like zeke as a person but I’ve always said it’s dumb to pay a RB that much money or waste a high draft pick on a RB. Barkley seems like a stand up dude but I would laugh my *** off if the Gnats give him a big contract and they totally blew it by using the 2nd overall pick on him.

You’re right though, the entire team is an over rated joke. I even bought into a lot of the player hype. I was always skeptical about McCarthy and caught a lot of flak for saying his record may have been misleading due to Rodgers. As skeptical as I am, I may say some negative things about him, but I almost always give QB’s, coaches, and most other positions (not all) a year before I cast judgement.

"Don't like Zeke as a person".....Much love Aria....but what's the answer to my question "How'd you fell about JWitt starting over Jarwin last year, or his play? Just curious....no indictment intended.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

To me, when I evaluate a running back I look at a number of things including physicality, pass blocking, receiving ability, et cetera.

However, the #1 trait I look for in a running back is his ability to run the ball (go figure).

You can talk about Zeke’s pass protection prowess or overplay his ability to “get those dirty yards,” but the question I would ask his diehards is what special ability as a runner does Zeke bring?

What is he bringing to the field as a runner that any other less heralded RB can’t?

He’s transformed into a glorified power back that this franchise keeps treating like he’s Marshall Faulk or L. Tomlinson in his prime. He’s clearly lost a step; he can’t beat defenders to the corner and poses no threat to flip the field.

I would absolutely look to trade him now while he still has perceived value. If we’re truly transforming into a pass dominant team there’s no need to have one of the league’s highest paid running backs.

 

[aria]

"Don't like Zeke as a person".....Much love Aria....but what's the answer to my question "How'd you fell about JWitt starting over Jarwin last year, or his play? Just curious....no indictment intended.

Tough question. Witten is my favorite all time Cowboy, love the guy, was a a stand up dude on and off the field.

I really don’t know how to feel. I don’t want to dismiss everything but there’s also not enough there for me to believe either. What I’m getting at is the rumors that it was his fault he started over Jarwin and didn’t want to help him. There isn’t enough evidence for me to believe that, but again, I don’t want to dismiss it either.

Final conclusion after rambling out loud: I can’t blame the guy for playing. That’s part of why I love him, he’s a true competitor which is something this team lacks outside of Lee and Dak IMO. His play wasn’t good but ultimately it’s the coaches decision to bench him or not. No one put a gun to JG’s head, with the exception of Jerry possibly, and made him start over Jarwin. JW was and is a Cowboy to the end (although I think he looks bad azz in a Raiders uniform) and he plays because he loves the game. I can’t fault him for him that and is one of the top reasons I love the dude.

 

[Stash]

The numbers don’t lie. Ezekiel Elliott is showing multiple signs of a decline in the performance most people assumed wouldn’t happen until for at least 2-3 more seasons before declining. He’s only 25, but he has a ton of touches on his tire treads. It’s hard not to wonder if he will never again have that magnetic playmaking ability he had at the beginning of career.

When Zeke hit the scene in 2016, he showed an incredible combination of power, speed and playmaking ability. Behind that once great OL, Zeke was clearly the best RB in the league from 2016-18. But the last two seasons, his burst and ability to break a big run has dropped precipitously.

Here is some of the stat evidence:

• Yards per carry- 2016: 5.1, 2017: 4.1, 2018: 4.7, 2019: 4.5, 2019: 4.1
• Yards per game- 2016: 108, 2017: 98, 2018: 95, 2018: 95, 2019: 85, 2020: 69
• Yards after contact: only have numbers since 2018 but he has finished 4th, 6th and 7th the last 3 seasons in yards after contact.

And the fumbles....Omg...Zeke has the most fumbles of any RB since he came in the league- specifically 22 fumbles since he came in the league, but he’s had 14 fumbles in just the last two seasons, losing 7. And you can’t say it’s because he has more touches. Because Derrick Henry, Christian McCaffrey, and Joe Mixon have comparable touches, but have much fewer fumbles. Henry and McCaffrey have had 5 fumbles each, while Joe Mixon has only had one fumble the last two years!

I believe Zeke still has talent and can be a big contributor. But it is no longer in doubt, he has not what he used to be. And with this makeshift OL in front of him now, he is almost on his own.

And he has a big contract.

I disagreed with the move of using that #4 overall pick on him from the start. Not because I felt that he was a bad player, but because the return on investment would never come. Given what the team had already invested in the offensive line, adding the 4th overall pick on a running back would never provide adequate returns. Even if he led the league in rushing, it still would never be enough to justify what was put into it. And that was before the majority of the linemen even started getting their own huge contracts!

I also remember the talk from Stephen Jones at the time about how because of that offensive line, the team didn't have to invest big resources in the running back position. Of course then it was an excuse not to pay Demarco Murray.

All of this is now coming home to roost, huge dead money for a player in Frederick who was forced to retire, and big money on the sidelines, in Smith, Collins, and (for now) Martin as well. Meanwhile, while Elliott is available, he's playing like garbage and actually costing this team games. And now that he doesn't have the line making him, he's decidedly average.

The Cowboys plan has proven to be a monumental failure.