The Evolution of Jerry Jones The Cowboys GM In The Red Garrett Era

[junk]

You would be surprised to know what I know.

Ah. More "insiders" with "sources". Just what we need around here.

 

[jnday]

Garrett makes some game management decisions which are appear problematic to many of us. A few. He calls some plays which appear problematic. Don't forget when an unexpected call works they call that genius. And this small sample compared to the hundreds of plays called each year means the guy is an idiot?? I reject that premise and point to the points scored by this team under his watch. It needs work and it should improve esp with better OL play and the evolvement of young receivers to run proper routes.

Most reasonable people here look at where Garrett started as interim HC and now HC and conclude he's making progress. And we're close to being out of cap hell. The next 1-3 years should tell the story on one Jason Garrett. It will depend on drafting, cap management and sound decisions there, as well as Jason keeping Jerry under wraps mostly in deeds as you're not going to keep him from talking. The rest is on Jerry et al and the defense putting up reasonable numbers.

And average defense hopefully a tad better and some improvement on offense should net a competitive team on the division level.

I'm changing my stance on the Giants. I see them as the 1b team in the East behind the Eagles and they may be number one. However, that can and often does change.

The reasonable people are seeing progress? 8-8 every year, with a decline in talent , is progress ? You you really giving Garrett the credit for Rat , Ware and Hatcher being cut? The salary cap is the reason they were cut. Garrett had no say in the fact that the team couldn't afford to keep these players. To top it off, you are saying it will take another 1-3 years to evaluate him. Remember his three year plan? Has it changed to six years?

 

[Aurican]

You do realize he didn't HAVE to cut Ware right??

What's your point? Ware was not performing and had injury issues so Jerry didn't want to pay him. Jerry didn't have to cut TO either Jerry didn't have to cut lots of players he has in the past but attributing that to his "evolution" or Garrett's so called influence is ridiculous and grasping at straws. Some of you guys seriously seem to think Garrett has all of this power over Jerry when the evidence is pointing to the contrary.

 

[Oh_Canada]

What's your point? Ware was not performing and had injury issues so Jerry didn't want to pay him. Jerry didn't have to cut TO either Jerry didn't have to cut lots of players he has in the past but attributing that to his "evolution" or Garrett's so called influence is ridiculous and grasping at straws. Some of you guys seriously seem to think Garrett has all of this power over Jerry when the evidence is pointing to the contrary.

Some of you think he has no power and that the Cowboys are doing everything as they have in the past which is simply not true. Look at how they have turned over the roster in a short amount of time and made hard decisions recently. You think Ware is an easy move to make? They could restructured him and probably signed Hatch in the process....they did neither. They drafted Frederick last year when everyone insisted Jerry was loath to take a center or guard in the first round and preferred "flash" instead. If you don't think Jones' is changing I am afraid you are simply too blind for your hatred of the guy to see otherwise.

 

[jobberone]

The reasonable people are seeing progress? 8-8 every year, with a decline in talent , is progress ? You you really giving Garrett the credit for Rat , Ware and Hatcher being cut? The salary cap is the reason they were cut. Garrett had no say in the fact that the team couldn't afford to keep these players. To top it off, you are saying it will take another 1-3 years to evaluate him. Remember his three year plan? Has it changed to six years?

I suggest you go back and reread that post. I said Garrett wasn't responsible for them. If you want to use a simple method for gauging progress such as the won-loss record be my guest. For me it's much more complicated. Perhaps you view that as too difficult or perhaps unnecessary.

I'm not saying how long Jerry will take to evaluate him because I can't possibly know that. Most people will be able to look at the product this year and make an informed decision as to whether the team is making progress. I don't have high expectations for the defense although I'd be very happy to be surprised.

 

[Aurican]

LOL. Nowhere is it written that it has to be Wade or Garrett with no other option.

And two points on that: One, hate Wade's style or look or whatever, and I'm not saying he's some great coach, but he's done far more as a head coach than Garrett has. I seriously doubt Garrett could have gone 29-19 in an AFC West with coaches like Parcells and Jimmy and with average QBs like Doug Flutie and Rob Johnson when he can't even muster a winning record in a poor NFC East with Tony Romo.

And two, Wade was hired primarily because he would accept Garrett as OC, not on his own merits. Jerry's first priority was finding someone who wouldn't balk at Garrett calling plays and running the offense however he wanted.

But back to the original point, I think a guy like Mike Zimmer could and would work just fine with Jerry, and he's an actual tough football coach who has earned his way up the ladder, not a grinning politician pseudo-family member.

What Garrett has done is nothing special and could have been replicated by any number of coaches including many that have been fired. Right now the Garrett brigade is left with excuse making and attributing any positive moves to Garret's influence and disregarding any negatives and putting them on Jerry. I guess we are to believe if Jerry had hired Chip Kelly or Jeff Fisher we would still would have Barber,Bigg, Austin and every other underperfoming and old player on the roster.

 

[dallasdave]

Yeah, but did you know that Old MacDonald was a bad speller?

Love that! Here a quack there a quack, everywhere a quack-quack!!!!

 

[WPBCowboysFan]

Ah. More "insiders" with "sources". Just what we need around here.

Thats the conclusion you reached based on his comment?

Funny thing, he didnt mention any inside knowledge from I read. I musta missed it.

 

[Aurican]

Some of you think he has no power and that the Cowboys are doing everything as they have in the past which is simply not true. Look at how they have turned over the roster in a short amount of time and made hard decisions recently. You think Ware is an easy move to make? They could restructured him and probably signed Hatch in the process....they did neither. They drafted Frederick last year when everyone insisted Jerry was loath to take a center or guard in the first round and preferred "flash" instead. If you don't think Jones' is changing I am afraid you are simply too blind for your hatred of the guy to see otherwise.

How do you know any of these moves wouldn't of been made regardless of Garrett being here or not? Sorry I will not attribute cutting an older player in Ware after having a historically awful defense and bad cap situation as some sort of Jerry evolution.

 

[jobberone]

How do you know any of these moves wouldn't of been made regardless of Garrett being here or not? Sorry I will not attribute cutting an older player in Ware after having a historically awful defense and bad cap situation as some sort of Jerry evolution.

We don't know for sure who made the final decision. I'd be willing to bet it was Jerry because Ware will end up in the ROH and possibly the HOF. But I've heard enough people over time both inside VR and outside say that decisions are made with multiple source input which is what most large businesses do. Does Jerry have the final say so on anything and everything? Sure; if he really wants to. It's his team. I'd bet this was a joint decision by Jerry, Stephen, Garrett and Marinelli and I'd bet this wasn't an easy task for Jerry to give the go ahead. Just a guess.

Who cares anyway? The choice was made as many here predicted. He had to take a pay cut or be cut. And his declining play and age along with salary made this almost a no-brainer. What is different is in the past Jerry clung to his older stars. This time he didn't nor did he overpay for Hatcher who had one good year but has had a career full of injuries. That doesn't make it all because of Garrett. Nor does it mean Garrett didn't have some role in it. Something has changed with Jerry and he's admitted it. I don't care if the janitor is giving input or whatever. Just make good informed decisions. Perhaps New Jerry won't revert to Bad Jerry or let Bad Jerry have any further input.

 

[jnday]

I suggest you go back and reread that post. I said Garrett wasn't responsible for them. If you want to use a simple method for gauging progress such as the won-loss record be my guest. For me it's much more complicated. Perhaps you view that as too difficult or perhaps unnecessary.

I'm not saying how long Jerry will take to evaluate him because I can't possibly know that. Most people will be able to look at the product this year and make an informed decision as to whether the team is making progress. I don't have high expectations for the defense although I'd be very happy to be surprised.

What other is there of gauging progress than wins and loses? The bottom line in this league is winning. They can have great talent, in good shape with the salary cap, a great offense, a great defense , be in good shape, and even be handsome lads, but none of it matters if wins are not the end result. The one and only measure of success in this league is winning. Is there any other way to get a Super Bowl trophy?

 

[Aurican]

We don't know for sure who made the final decision. I'd be willing to bet it was Jerry because Ware will end up in the ROH and possibly the HOF. But I've heard enough people over time both inside VR and outside say that decisions are made with multiple source input which is what most large businesses do. Does Jerry have the final say so on anything and everything? Sure; if he really wants to. It's his team. I'd bet this was a joint decision by Jerry, Stephen, Garrett and Marinelli and I'd bet this wasn't an easy task for Jerry to give the go ahead. Just a guess.

Who cares anyway? The choice was made as many here predicted. He had to take a pay cut or be cut. And his declining play and age along with salary made this almost a no-brainer. What is different is in the past Jerry clung to his older stars. This time he didn't nor did he overpay for Hatcher who had one good year but has had a career full of injuries. That doesn't make it all because of Garrett. Nor does it mean Garrett didn't have some role in it. Something has changed with Jerry and he's admitted it. I don't care if the janitor is giving input or whatever. Just make good informed decisions. Perhaps New Jerry won't revert to Bad Jerry or let Bad Jerry have any further input.

I agree nobody knows who influenced the decision but Jerry has cut older stars in the past like Flozell and Roy Williams (safety) so I don't see this as anything new really.

 

[xwalker]

Whats this obsession against Wade? Honestly, he has done better than what Garrett has done so far. I don't care for Wade either and really didn't like him. But Wade at least got us into the playoffs. Garrett hasn't even after 3 years. Time is running out for Garrett and the entire team. We deserve to see results right now. Wade is no longer with the team. Now its Garrett's team and we need him to produce results.

Wade inherited the team from Parcells. It had talent, a reasonable cap situation and had a sense of discipline that Parcells had instilled.

Wade getting to the playoffs was similar to Barry Switzer winning a Super Bowl.

What Wade left behind was the biggest mess possible for a new coach to take over. Garrett would have been in better shape inheriting a team with 53 Jeff Heaths making Heath's salary. With modern free agency, that would be a dream scenario compared to inheriting a team with Roy Williams, Gurode, Bigg, Barber, Ratliff, etc.. with their huge salaries and sense of entitlement.

 

[xwalker]

Ah. More "insiders" with "sources". Just what we need around here.

You can search all of my posting history. I've never posted any rumors or that type of thing.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

.

Wade inherited the team from Parcells. It had talent, a reasonable cap situation and had a sense of discipline that Parcells had instilled.

Wade getting to the playoffs was similar to Barry Switzer winning a Super Bowl.

What Wade left behind was the biggest mess possible for a new coach to take over. Garrett would have been in better shape inheriting a team with 53 Jeff Heaths making Heath's salary. With modern free agency, that would be a dream scenario compared to inheriting a team with Roy Williams, Gurode, Bigg, Barber, Ratliff, etc.. with their huge salaries and sense of entitlement.

What an absolutely absurd statement.

Poll the 10 most respected GMs in the league, whoever they are, and not a single one would say that was the biggest mess possible. The team had a top defense and a great young QB and had won its first playoff game in over a decade just the year before. There are much worse situations every single year in this league.

Not to mention that Garrett had big input into the Roy Williams and Barber decisions you're calling such an anchor.

Also, I love how you blame Phillips for Ratliff going berzerk three years after he was fired.

You're obviously a big Garrett fan and you've constructed in your head a scenario where he couldn't possibly succeed.

 

[jobberone]

What other is there of gauging progress than wins and loses? The bottom line in this league is winning. They can have great talent, in good shape with the salary cap, a great offense, a great defense , be in good shape, and even be handsome lads, but none of it matters if wins are not the end result. The one and only measure of success in this league is winning. Is there any other way to get a Super Bowl trophy?

You should be able to answer your own question.

 

[jobberone]

I agree nobody knows who influenced the decision but Jerry has cut older stars in the past like Flozell and Roy Williams (safety) so I don't see this as anything new really.

Well, I see it differently. Flozell nor Roy Williams the safety are no where near Mr. Ware in a number of areas. Still all the reasons apply not just comparisons between different players. Ware was about a no brainer so mox nix.

 

[jobberone]

Ah. More "insiders" with "sources". Just what we need around here.

This is an unreasonable thing to say.

 

[xwalker]

.
What an absolutely absurd statement.

Poll the 10 most respected GMs in the league, whoever they are, and not a single one would say that was the biggest mess possible. The team had a top defense and a great young QB and had won its first playoff game in over a decade just the year before. There are much worse situations every single year in this league.

Not to mention that Garrett had big input into the Roy Williams and Barber decisions you're calling such an anchor.

Also, I love how you blame Phillips for Ratliff going berzerk three years after he was fired.

You're obviously a big Garrett fan and you've constructed in your head a scenario where he couldn't possibly succeed.

You have no idea what others GM would say if they were to review it right now.

There are worse situations in terms of talent on the team, but when you consider the huge contracts and horrible mental makeup of the team, then it was as bad as it gets. Parcells was able to cut any players that he wanted to cut because the cap was not a big issue at that time. When you can cut anybody, it's much easier to change the locker room culture and get the players that you want.

It similar to how Jimmy would have been in a much better situation if he inherited a Dolphins team with a scrub QB instead of Mario who the owner wouldn't let him cut. Mario was obviously more talented than a scrub, but Jimmy couldn't remake the culture of the team with Marino's God like status on that team.

Ratliff was an example of the mentality that developed during the Wade years. Garrett got rid of most of those guys, but Ratliff was one that he couldn't get rid of immediately because Jerry had some connection to Ratliff.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

LOL. I could type a long response with plenty of examples, but you clearly can't be objective about Garrett.

In a nutshell: He's been completely handicapped. Everything wrong with this team is someone else's fault.

I do love that when the situation and "culture" was supposedly the worst, in his first 19 games, Garrett started 12-7. Since then, as Garrett has implemented his superior everything and moved farther away from that untenable situation, he is 17-20.