The Eye of the Storm

[JBS]

I'm just telling you that Romo, Dez, and Witten could all have their best seasons (highly unlikely that ALL three would do that) while Zeke goes for 1500 yards, and I would bet in a big way they would still not average 35 ppg.

Anyway, most hyper scoring teams have a way better WR group than Dallas does, or else they have much more creative offense.

Hey, it's not like I'm rooting against the points, it just seems very unlikely. Maybe if the defense is in the top 5 in turnovers? Maybe.

Also, I'm wondering how Beasley is all of a sudden some elite player based on some of these posts in this thread. comical

You hit the nail on the head..we aren't averaging 35ppg...no matter what

Plus...we are a ball control offense...that in itself will minimize our possessions as well...

We will average 30...we will give up around 23...we will lose to a more complete team when the good teams all meet in the tournament

 

[wileedog]

I can't think of a comparable offense in league history myself.

I'd be interested to know if someone else can remember one?

Greatest Show on Turf had much, MUCH better depth at WR and an already proven RB in Faulk. And they only averaged around 33 PPG at their peak. They had much better coaching to boot, Martz at the time was in a different league completely than JG/Linehan now.

This team. coaching and offensive style is not explosive enough to come close to 35 PPG IMO. Would be very happy with 30.

 

[Stash]

Greatest Show on Turf had much, MUCH better depth at WR and an already proven RB in Faulk. And they only averaged around 33 PPG at their peak. They had much better coaching to boot, Martz at the time was in a different league completely than JG/Linehan now.

This team. coaching and offensive style is not explosive enough to come close to 35 PPG IMO. Would be very happy with 30.

But can you think of one with better talent across the board? Other than Pace, who were their linemen? Who was the TE?

 

[CATCH17]

A team that has never won a Super Bowl with no defense to hang their hat on when times get tough.


As long as we can avoid Aaron Rodgers and Cam Newton I like our chances.

The Eli Mannings and Russell Wilsons can be contained but we may not punt against a QB like Rodgers.

 

[wileedog]

But can you think of one with better talent across the board? Other than Pace, who were their linemen? Who was the TE?

IIRC their offensive system didn't really use the TE much as a receiver, so not sure it matters. And really, when you have Bruce, Holt, Hakim and Faulk all running routes, why would you?

Couldn't tell you about the Oline off the top of my head, and probably ours is better on paper. But our offensive system is not built like Martz's and even if our TE is better than poor blocking guy whoever he was on that team, Williams and Beez aren't in the same zip code with Holt and Hakim. And i am certainly not ready just yet to equate Zeke with Faulk (although it may be a good comp).

Not saying we're not talented, but considering Romo and Witten's age in particular I wouldn't call this group the best ever. They are welcome to prove me wrong this season

 

[Stash]

IIRC their offensive system didn't really use the TE much as a receiver, so not sure it matters. And really, when you have Bruce, Holt, Hakim and Faulk all running routes, why would you?

Couldn't tell you about the Oline off the top of my head, and probably ours is better on paper. But our offensive system is not built like Martz's and even if our TE is better than poor blocking guy whoever he was on that team, Williams and Beez aren't in the same zip code with Holt and Hakim. And i am certainly not ready just yet to equate Zeke with Faulk (although it may be a good comp).

Not saying we're not talented, but considering Romo and Witten's age in particular I wouldn't call this group the best ever. They are welcome to prove me wrong this season

Again, I'm referring to the players in each offense being either Pro Bowlers or top draft picks.

How many did those Rams have compared to this team?

 

[jday]

Bottom line is that unless this defense can get consistent pressure on the opposing QB with corresponding turnovers, then this team will not get very far especially when playing against potent offenses.

I agree the allocation of resources and talent overall is on the offensive side of the ball and it must show accordingly for there to be any hope this season.

However, without a defense that can get consistent pressure and/or turnovers, the offense can only take us so far.

We shall see in short order what we actually have on defense!

No promises, of course, but I like what we have now better than 2014. Consider, a healthy Lee, Byron at FS, Tank, a better Claiborne, Carr in a contract year, a vastly improved middle of the DL...and we just have to weather 4 games against what look to be mediocre teams to get Tank back. By comparison to 2014, this team looks alot better.

 

[wileedog]

Again, I'm referring to the players in each offense being either Pro Bowlers or top draft picks.

How many did those Rams have compared to this team?

Well if you put it that way, let's do the math. To Google!

Rams
Kurt Warner - ProBowler, grocery clerk
Marshall Faulk - 2nd over all pick 1st round, Pro Bowler
Isaac Bruce - 2nd round pick, Pro Bowl
Tory Holt - 1st round pick, Pro Bowl
Az-Zahir Ali Hakim - 4th round
TE- Ernie Conwell - 2nd round pick
Orlando Pace - 2nd overall 1st round, arguably one of best LT of all time
LG - Tom Nütten - undrafted as far as I can tell
C - Andrew McCollum - undrafted
RG - Adam Timmerman - 7th round pick, All Pro 2nd team pick in 2001
RT - Ryan Tucker - 4th round pick

Cowboys
Tony Romo - Pro Bowler, Undrafted
Zeke - 4th overall pick
Witten - 3rd round, Pro Bowler (HOF)
Dez - 1st round pick, Pro Bowler
Williams - 3rd round pick
Beasley - undrafted
TSmith - 1st round pick
Collins - technically undrafted, not sure how you want to score this one
FredBeard - 1st round pick
Zack - 1st round pick
Free - 4th round pick

So yeah, other than Pace they had a bunch of guys who really outplayed their pedigree on the Oline, so overall in terms of that you are probably right if simply going by draft rankings and Pro Bowls. Still think that was a way better offense than we are going to be when you bring in scheme and coaching though.

And of course the Rams had a defense too...

 

[Rogerthat12]

No promises, of course, but I like what we have now better than 2014. Consider, a healthy Lee, Byron at FS, Tank, a better Claiborne, Carr in a contract year, a vastly improved middle of the DL...and we just have to weather 4 games against what look to be mediocre teams to get Tank back. By comparison to 2014, this team looks alot better.

Only time will tell, we may still add something at RDE in free agency that could at least mitigate the concern to some extent.

 

[Stash]

Well if you put it that way, let's do the math. To Google!

Rams
Kurt Warner - ProBowler, grocery clerk
Marshall Faulk - 2nd over all pick 1st round, Pro Bowler
Isaac Bruce - 2nd round pick, Pro Bowl
Tory Holt - 1st round pick, Pro Bowl
Az-Zahir Ali Hakim - 4th round
TE- Ernie Conwell - 2nd round pick
Orlando Pace - 2nd overall 1st round, arguably one of best LT of all time
LG - Tom Nütten - undrafted as far as I can tell
C - Andrew McCollum - undrafted
RG - Adam Timmerman - 7th round pick, All Pro 2nd team pick in 2001
RT - Ryan Tucker - 4th round pick

Cowboys
Tony Romo - Pro Bowler, Undrafted
Zeke - 4th overall pick
Witten - 3rd round, Pro Bowler (HOF)
Dez - 1st round pick, Pro Bowler
Williams - 3rd round pick
Beasley - undrafted
TSmith - 1st round pick
Collins - technically undrafted, not sure how you want to score this one
FredBeard - 1st round pick
Zack - 1st round pick
Free - 4th round pick

So yeah, other than Pace they had a bunch of guys who really outplayed their pedigree on the Oline, so overall in terms of that you are probably right if simply going by draft rankings and Pro Bowls. Still think that was a way better offense than we are going to be when you bring in scheme and coaching though.

And of course the Rams had a defense too...

Nice work! Thanks for making the effort!

 

[jday]

I'm just telling you that Romo, Dez, and Witten could all have their best seasons (highly unlikely that ALL three would do that) while Zeke goes for 1500 yards, and I would bet in a big way they would still not average 35 ppg.

Anyway, most hyper scoring teams have a way better WR group than Dallas does, or else they have much more creative offense.

Hey, it's not like I'm rooting against the points, it just seems very unlikely. Maybe if the defense is in the top 5 in turnovers? Maybe.

Also, I'm wondering how Beasley is all of a sudden some elite player based on some of these posts in this thread. comical

The sum of Beasley's parts do not equal elite. His consistent hands, his ability to get open, and his knack for moving the chains on 3rd down is elite. Admittedly, without Witten, Dez, a decent run game and Romo throwing him the ball that label most likely disappears. But in those conditions he has proven to be pretty clutch.

 

[wileedog]

Nice work! Thanks for making the effort!

That post is the answer to the question "How bored are you this evening?"

 

[ksadler1]

I didn't read all the posts, but we do have to acknowledge that there will be times this year our offense will falter and the D has to win a couple games. I realize how good this offense can be, but a great defense will give this offense a run for their money. The Giants and Commanders defenses are going to be pretty stout this year. That's 4 games alone. Lets not forget the Steelers and Packers defenses. IMO a great offense alone does not win SB's, but a great defense can. Look no farther than Denver for proof. When your defense consistently gives your offense a short field to work with, you don't need a great offense.....

 

[DandyDon52]

I agree with your math here as stated, however when you include the multiplication of the X factor (i.e. Garrett) I think the sum of the parts ends up dropping significantly and only being top 10 vice top 1.

When you add the coach to the equation, sadly it would be true to say:
Brady/Gronk/JAG/JAG/JAG X Beli > Romo/Dez/Zeke/Beasley/OL X Garrett
and quite possibly
Rodgers/Cobb/JAG/JAG/JAG X Ronald McDonald > Romo/Dez/Zeke/Beasley/OL X Garrett

that's a lot of math for a lib arts major
partially kidding on all of course...partially

That is why I say it is up to the coaches.
As a example, if dallas has 3rd and 1, and they get a false start , or illegal formation, would that
not be due to poor coaching??
Dallas has in the past done that a lot.
you can throw in running the route short of the line to gain in 3rd down situations, happens a lot.
Little things add up.

In 2014 the main thing they did right, was run as much or more than they passed.
Teams were leary of Murray after he broke the record for 100 yd games, and even before.
That helped the passing game.

Right now none of our backs are feared by defenses, so we need to establish EE as someone to be feared,
and the best thing is to get several 100 yd games in a row. build his rep, and after that you dont have to
run him as much.

When dallas played NE last year Bellichek said his only concern was to take witten out of the game,
and it worked like a charm.
Game plans make a difference!

 

[Hoofbite]

The defense will have to hold it's own if Dallas is going to have success and advance in the playoffs. Other teams will have good offenses, which means any team that had any success in slowing Dallas' offense down will give Dallas significant problems.

 

[ghst187]

That is why I say it is up to the coaches.
As a example, if dallas has 3rd and 1, and they get a false start , or illegal formation, would that
not be due to poor coaching??
Dallas has in the past done that a lot.
you can throw in running the route short of the line to gain in 3rd down situations, happens a lot.
Little things add up.

In 2014 the main thing they did right, was run as much or more than they passed.
Teams were leary of Murray after he broke the record for 100 yd games, and even before.
That helped the passing game.

Right now none of our backs are feared by defenses, so we need to establish EE as someone to be feared,
and the best thing is to get several 100 yd games in a row. build his rep, and after that you dont have to
run him as much.

When dallas played NE last year Bellichek said his only concern was to take witten out of the game,
and it worked like a charm.
Game plans make a difference!

true, but I just haven't ever gotten the sense that our coaching staff ever has a specific game plan for a specific opponent and doesn't seem to make any adjustments when we are missing players due to injuries etc. I think this was further proven by the fact that we couldn't win even one game without Romo, we just kept doing the same thing and never tailored a gameplay according to who was under center, at least it looked that way.
I also put a lot of blame on the coaches for losses where play calling and game management swung momentum and affected outcomes. For example, we botched the end of the first half against the Pats last year and the playoff game against Green Bay. We had a 3rd and 1 in GB territory and Murray had not been stopped for less than a 3 yard gain every time he touched the ball. There was around 2:00 left. If we run the ball we 99% get the first down, keep the clock moving, and keep the drive alive. Worst case, Murray gets stuffed (which I seriously doubt) and GB uses their last timeout. We throw an incompletion, stop the clock and the drive. GB keeps their timeout and then we miss a long FG. After sputtering all half and getting just beat up, GB comes to life and has plenty of time to march down the field for a score just before half completely changing the entire momentum and game. There are numerous other games under Garrett where similar coaching snafus played big roles in the outcome, to our detriment. Hence, my derision and lamenting. For all his other faults, Bill Parcells was one of the best game managers of all time...and Belichek is a disciple of BP in that regard. He does a masterful job, as much as I loath the pats.
I also hope that EE finishes the runs that Murray didn't and keeps Garrett from getting in his own way with terrible play calling. What I mean is that Murray broke off tons of long runs but oftentimes didn't finish them in the end zone (and sometimes ended them with a stupid fumble i.e. Washington game). That provided the opportunity for Garrett and Lineman to get cute and botch a 7 point drive and walk away with only 3 in some cases. EE just taking it all the way to the house would really help us mitigate and overcome our staff.
I don't mean to sound overly negative about the staff, they have some great qualities, but they are sometimes an obstacle rather than an enabler and it has cost us in some clutch moments.

 

[CCBoy]

true, but I just haven't ever gotten the sense that our coaching staff ever has a specific game plan for a specific opponent and doesn't seem to make any adjustments when we are missing players due to injuries etc. I think this was further proven by the fact that we couldn't win even one game without Romo, we just kept doing the same thing and never tailored a gameplay according to who was under center, at least it looked that way.
I also put a lot of blame on the coaches for losses where play calling and game management swung momentum and affected outcomes. For example, we botched the end of the first half against the Pats last year and the playoff game against Green Bay. We had a 3rd and 1 in GB territory and Murray had not been stopped for less than a 3 yard gain every time he touched the ball. There was around 2:00 left. If we run the ball we 99% get the first down, keep the clock moving, and keep the drive alive. Worst case, Murray gets stuffed (which I seriously doubt) and GB uses their last timeout. We throw an incompletion, stop the clock and the drive. GB keeps their timeout and then we miss a long FG. After sputtering all half and getting just beat up, GB comes to life and has plenty of time to march down the field for a score just before half completely changing the entire momentum and game. There are numerous other games under Garrett where similar coaching snafus played big roles in the outcome, to our detriment. Hence, my derision and lamenting. For all his other faults, Bill Parcells was one of the best game managers of all time...and Belichek is a disciple of BP in that regard. He does a masterful job, as much as I loath the pats.
I also hope that EE finishes the runs that Murray didn't and keeps Garrett from getting in his own way with terrible play calling. What I mean is that Murray broke off tons of long runs but oftentimes didn't finish them in the end zone (and sometimes ended them with a stupid fumble i.e. Washington game). That provided the opportunity for Garrett and Lineman to get cute and botch a 7 point drive and walk away with only 3 in some cases. EE just taking it all the way to the house would really help us mitigate and overcome our staff.
I don't mean to sound overly negative about the staff, they have some great qualities, but they are sometimes an obstacle rather than an enabler and it has cost us in some clutch moments.

That might be conditional, until the execution of the players on the field, are consistent enough to vary the gambles, and maintain a ball control.

 

[zrinkill]

true, but I just haven't ever gotten the sense that our coaching staff ever has a specific game plan for a specific opponent and doesn't seem to make any adjustments when we are missing players due to injuries etc. I think this was further proven by the fact that we couldn't win even one game without Romo, we just kept doing the same thing and never tailored a gameplay according to who was under center, at least it looked that way.
I also put a lot of blame on the coaches for losses where play calling and game management swung momentum and affected outcomes. For example, we botched the end of the first half against the Pats last year and the playoff game against Green Bay. We had a 3rd and 1 in GB territory and Murray had not been stopped for less than a 3 yard gain every time he touched the ball. There was around 2:00 left. If we run the ball we 99% get the first down, keep the clock moving, and keep the drive alive. Worst case, Murray gets stuffed (which I seriously doubt) and GB uses their last timeout. We throw an incompletion, stop the clock and the drive. GB keeps their timeout and then we miss a long FG. After sputtering all half and getting just beat up, GB comes to life and has plenty of time to march down the field for a score just before half completely changing the entire momentum and game. There are numerous other games under Garrett where similar coaching snafus played big roles in the outcome, to our detriment. Hence, my derision and lamenting. For all his other faults, Bill Parcells was one of the best game managers of all time...and Belichek is a disciple of BP in that regard. He does a masterful job, as much as I loath the pats.
I also hope that EE finishes the runs that Murray didn't and keeps Garrett from getting in his own way with terrible play calling. What I mean is that Murray broke off tons of long runs but oftentimes didn't finish them in the end zone (and sometimes ended them with a stupid fumble i.e. Washington game). That provided the opportunity for Garrett and Lineman to get cute and botch a 7 point drive and walk away with only 3 in some cases. EE just taking it all the way to the house would really help us mitigate and overcome our staff.
I don't mean to sound overly negative about the staff, they have some great qualities, but they are sometimes an obstacle rather than an enabler and it has cost us in some clutch moments.

This is a great post.