The fatal flaw was exposed

[Dallas]

Move Newman to the outside and then teams will move their top receivers to the slot.

Have Newman or Henry man up on each teams best WR wherever they are. Now whats your argument Mikey?

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Have Newman or Henry man up on each teams best WR wherever they are. Now whats your argument Mikey?

I don't have any problems with that. But you need to talk to Parcells about changing the scheme to allow db's to "stay" with a specific player. But of course the problem with that is that the Cowboys weren't playing a pure man-to-man scheme (it was a hybrid man-zone coverage scheme) on either TD pass. You start moving corners all over the field willy, nilly and you're going to create confusion. I don't think it would work quite frankly or teams would be doing it that way-- and they aren't.

The fact is the bigger problem was Roy on the coverage for both TD... much more so than Glenn. On the first one Roy turned the wrong direction and on the second one he just reacted a tad too slowly. Glenn's coverage on the first one was good. He drifted a bit too far outside on the second one BUT again Roy was responsible for inside coverage and he got there late.

 

[Maikeru-sama]

I think the biggest problem is the scheme and not Roy Williams. Roy Williams has to dip his head in and sniff out what both the Slot Receiver and the Outside guy is doing and it is easy for him to get caught up in what the Slot receiver is doing, which on at least one of the TDs, he got caught focusing way too much on the inside receiver even though common sense would tell you that Moss is probably going to get the ball as he is their main deep threat.

I think if you ask most people, they would tell you they would feel more comfortable at night if Henry or Newman was on the oppositions' best Receiver as opposed to Glenn.

Also, if I know my Safeties are the weakest part of my pass defense, there is no way I would go into a Cover 2 Zone with the game on the line, especially if I was just BURNED with that coverage on the play before. But at least get a crack/jam on a guy off the line of scrimmage before you release him to your Safety.

Keith Davis was manning his side of the field, he was not expected to make plays on Glenn and Roy's side of the field.

Whoever is calling defensive plays is responsible for this mess.

- Mike G.

 

[Everlastingxxx]

Actually, messed up three times. He let an easy INT go through his hands to zonk him right in the face mask just before the first touchdown was given up. Would have iced the game.

Must have been the playcalling :laugh2:

Roy is also the reason the game had a chance to be iced. Roy messed up. The Coaches messed up. The Offense messed up. Lots of blame for everyone. Lets move on and talk about the Niners or Rita.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I think the biggest problem is the scheme and not Roy Williams. Roy Williams has to dip his head in and sniff out what both the Slot Receiver and the Outside guy is doing and it is easy for him to get caught up in what the Slot receiver is doing, which on at least one of the TDs, he got caught focusing way too much on the inside receiver even though common sense would tell you that Moss is probably going to get the ball as he is their main deep threat.

I think if you ask most people, they would tell you they would feel more comfortable at night if Henry or Newman was on the oppositions' best Receiver as opposed to Glenn.

Also, if I know my Safeties are the weakest part of my pass defense, there is no way I would go into a Cover 2 Zone with the game on the line, especially if I was just BURNED with that coverage on the play before. But at least get a crack/jam on a guy off the line of scrimmage before you release him to your Safety.

Keith Davis was manning his side of the field, he was not expected to make plays on Glenn and Roy's side of the field.

Whoever is calling defensive plays is responsible for this mess.

- Mike G.

But Mike the safties are usually the weakest part of any team's pass defense. However I do support your premise that Glenn should have bumped Moss at the line. That would have given Roy more time to get over the top on his coverage responsibilities and since Roy didn't miss by much I'm assuming a bump at the line would have been enough to make the difference.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Where was Keith Davis during the fiasco?

He had deep coverage responsibilities on the other half of the field. But the funny thing is on the first TD pass it appears that Davis reacted quicker to the development of the play that what Roy did. Roy really messed up on the first TD. Much more so than on the second IMHO.

 

[joseephuss]

He had deep coverage responsibilities on the other half of the field. But the funny thing is on the first TD pass it appears that Davis reacted quicker to the development of the play that what Roy did. Roy really messed up on the first TD. Much more so than on the second IMHO.

On the first TD, Washington had two receivers running into Roy's zone. Roy bit a little too hard on the short route. This wasn't the case on the second TD. Roy just took too long to turn and run. He also should have lined up a couple of yards further back and Glenn has to get a bump on the receiver.

 

[Maikeru-sama]

But Mike the safties are usually the weakest part of any team's pass defense. However I do support your premise that Glenn should have bumped Moss at the line. That would have given Roy more time to get over the top on his coverage responsibilities and since Roy didn't miss by much I'm assuming a bump at the line would have been enough to make the difference.

Mikey, I get your point too and beleive me, Roy Williams definately shares alot of the blame.

I am just worried that we may see this type of defense being called in similar situations in the near future and as you know, other teams will always see how an prior opponent was able to beat you.

I am just stumped at why they called the same exact defense afte being gashed the first time with the game on the line? I think it may have had to do with Bill expecting Glenn and Roy to not make the same mistakes the second time.

But Mike, you have to admit, okay, if you know one of your safeties is really inexperienced, and the other is average in coverage, that putting them in a 2 Deep Zone, where if you dont get pressure on the QB, you could potentially get a one on one with a Receiver and Safety as they cover the 2nd Half of the Field and the Deep Middle.

I would have like to see Man to Man coverage with Roy and Davis just providing deep help. I beleive both times they were in a Cover 2 Defense, which is fine when you get pressure, but I think it was more of a Soft Cover 2 Defense.

Also, I think Glenn feared Moss's speed and that is the reason he didnt bump him at the line. Because if he whiffs, then he blows right past Roy even sooner.

My only fear is that we will see this again in the future. Anybody got any idea how much input/control Zimmer has over the defense.

I kind of figured Parcells was doing it 100% since he is not doing Offense, dont know.

I just know it is the coaches job to protect the weaknesses of his players and exploit their strengths.

In any scenario, you should make sure you draw up a defense where you cannot have a situation where your Safeties could be exposed.

- Mike G.

 

[Maikeru-sama]

He had deep coverage responsibilities on the other half of the field. But the funny thing is on the first TD pass it appears that Davis reacted quicker to the development of the play that what Roy did. Roy really messed up on the first TD. Much more so than on the second IMHO.

Yeah, I dont recall but I beleive the inside guy ran a double post and Roy positioned himself too far inside.

- Mike G.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Mikey, I get your point too and beleive me, Roy Williams definately shares alot of the blame.

I am just worried that we may see this type of defense being called in similar situations in the near future and as you know, other teams will always see how an prior opponent was able to beat you.

I am just stumped at why they called the same exact defense afte being gashed the first time with the game on the line? I think it may have had to do with Bill expecting Glenn and Roy to not make the same mistakes the second time.

But Mike, you have to admit, okay, if you know one of your safeties is really inexperienced, and the other is average in coverage, that putting them in a 2 Deep Zone, where if you dont get pressure on the QB, you could potentially get a one on one with a Receiver and Safety as they cover the 2nd Half of the Field and the Deep Middle.

I would have like to see Man to Man coverage with Roy and Davis just providing deep help. I beleive both times they were in a Cover 2 Defense, which is fine when you get pressure, but I think it was more of a Soft Cover 2 Defense.

Also, I think Glenn feared Moss's speed and that is the reason he didnt bump him at the line. Because if he whiffs, then he blows right past Roy even sooner.

My only fear is that we will see this again in the future. Anybody got any idea how much input/control Zimmer has over the defense.

I kind of figured Parcells was doing it 100% since he is not doing Offense, dont know.

I just know it is the coaches job to protect the weaknesses of his players and exploit their strengths.

In any scenario, you should make sure you draw up a defense where you cannot have a situation where your Safeties could be exposed.

- Mike G.

Mike, I agree with you. I think we would have been much better off playing "Cover-2 man-under" than a straight zone like we did.

If so Roy, especially on the first TD wouldn't have been dilly-dallying around with the underneath guy.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Yeah, I dont recall but I beleive the inside guy ran a double post and Roy positioned himself too far inside.

- Mike G.

Dat had a nice deep drop too... no reason for Roy to "hang" on the underneath guy for as long as he did.

 

[joseephuss]

Dallas has to be able to run that type of coverage effectively to win games. They have to run different coverage and have the ability to mix it up and keep teams guessing and in many coverage both Roy and Keith will have deep responsibilities. Perhaps it wasn't the best coverage for the situtation on Mondaynight, but they will have to do better in the future. Brunell and Moss are not he best QB and receiver they will face this year. If they can't correct it, they can have a long season.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I will say one thing thou. Gibbs did a nice job here. I will bet that Gibbs and company saw something on Roy or Glenn. I could be wrong but Washington didn't use this play until they really needed it.

I'm affraid that reporst of his demise (Gibbs) may have been greatly exaggerated.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Dallas has to be able to run that type of coverage effectively to win games. They have to run different coverage and have the ability to mix it up and keep teams guessing and in many coverage both Roy and Keith will have deep responsibilities. Perhaps it wasn't the best coverage for the situtation on Mondaynight, but they will have to do better in the future. Brunell and Moss are not he best QB and receiver they will face this year. If they can't correct it, they can have a long season.

True. Roy seems to be a bigger problem IMHO than what Glenn is.

 

[Justis]

True. Roy seems to be a bigger problem IMHO than what Glenn is.

Roy ain't a problem, he just needs help in coverage. Why do you think so far two Pro Bowl running backs have averaged about 64 yards against us. We need a real free safety, not another hitter.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Roy ain't a problem, he just needs help in coverage. Why do you think so far two Pro Bowl running backs have averaged about 64 yards against us. We need a real free safety, not another hitter.

Help in coverage?

You're kidding right?

Do you understand that in a 2-deep zone that a safety, free or strong, needs to be able to adequately cover his part of the field?

Roy doesn't need help... he needs to react faster and in the case of one TD just turn the right frigging way.

 

[kartr]

I think your fishing on this one Kartr. Bledsoe played well. No agenda at all here. I was completely against bringing Bledsoe in and in favor of developing a young guy. I stand here right now and say that Bledsoe, thus far, has been better then I hoped he'd be, thus far. In fact, barring injury, I would have to say that I was way to harsh on Bledsoe and what I precieved to be short comings in his game. I still worry about the sacks, fumbles and injury/age but I have no questions on his throwing ability, his ability to get out of the pocket and gain yards when there and his courage. I like a lot of what I see from Bledsoe right now. At this point, I'd have to say that I was way off base with a few of my concerns on Bledsoe.

He wasn't sacked at all, which means he had time to make better reads. Don't forget, Vinny put up good numbers early on last year, but it didn't translate into many wins either. When he starts throwing touchdowns against good defenses, I'll get off his case, but so far he's showing he's no better than he was last year. Looks like Tarzan against weak defenses, looks like Jane against the good defenses and he's got 12 years experience, good coaching staff and good players around him. If QC produced just 13 points, we would be hearing how he was the problem, and only if we had a 'real qb'. Now Bledsoe produces only 13 and we hear it's the defense' fault, it's the play-calling, it's the ref' fault, while Bledsoe gets a pass in spite of the fact that he clearly missed open receivers.

 

[Aikmaniac]

He wasn't sacked at all, which means he had time to make better reads. Don't forget, Vinny put up good numbers early on last year, but it didn't translate into many wins either. When he starts throwing touchdowns against good defenses, I'll get off his case, but so far he's showing he's no better than he was last year. Looks like Tarzan against weak defenses, looks like Jane against the good defenses and he's got 12 years experience, good coaching staff and good players around him. If QC produced just 13 points, we would be hearing how he was the problem, and only if we had a 'real qb'. Now Bledsoe produces only 13 and we hear it's the defense' fault, it's the play-calling, it's the ref' fault, while Bledsoe gets a pass in spite of the fact that he clearly missed open receivers.

Why is Quincy even mentioned anymore? Do we bring up Steve Pelluer or Hugh Millen?

 

[Justis]

He wasn't sacked at all, which means he had time to make better reads. Don't forget, Vinny put up good numbers early on last year, but it didn't translate into many wins either. When he starts throwing touchdowns against good defenses, I'll get off his case, but so far he's showing he's no better than he was last year. Looks like Tarzan against weak defenses, looks like Jane against the good defenses and he's got 12 years experience, good coaching staff and good players around him. If QC produced just 13 points, we would be hearing how he was the problem, and only if we had a 'real qb'. Now Bledsoe produces only 13 and we hear it's the defense' fault, it's the play-calling, it's the ref' fault, while Bledsoe gets a pass in spite of the fact that he clearly missed open receivers.

If QC was in that game he would have thrown 4 INTs and we would have him to blame. Vinny was doin' alright win wise until we lost Glenn, and Bryant. Most of the losses previous were on the D.

 

[Hostile]

He wasn't sacked at all, which means he had time to make better reads. Don't forget, Vinny put up good numbers early on last year, but it didn't translate into many wins either. When he starts throwing touchdowns against good defenses, I'll get off his case, but so far he's showing he's no better than he was last year. Looks like Tarzan against weak defenses, looks like Jane against the good defenses and he's got 12 years experience, good coaching staff and good players around him. If QC produced just 13 points, we would be hearing how he was the problem, and only if we had a 'real qb'. Now Bledsoe produces only 13 and we hear it's the defense' fault, it's the play-calling, it's the ref' fault, while Bledsoe gets a pass in spite of the fact that he clearly missed open receivers.

I'm going to agree with part of this. 13 points is not acceptable to me regardless of the QB. On the season we have scored 41 points. Just over 20 a game. If we can get that to 24 average I will be a lot more comfortable. It is not impossible with 14 games left. If it were 4 or 5 games left I'd agree with you. That means the man deserves more credit than you are giving him.

I am not a Bledsoe fan like some, but I am also not a Bledsoe hater. I'm very happy he's here right now. I think he is doing a very good job for us right now.

We still have to score more points. The problem with this is that you are pointing one finger in his direction. I think we need to point them in a lot of places, he is just one of them.

We need better play calling for example. Too conservative. Elite offenses take risks. Instead of playing not to lose we need to play to win. Starts at the top.