The first step in rebuilding the OLine.

[Hailmary]

GBNDR reports...

Bengals franchise former #1 pick… Cincinnati has designated DE Justin Smith as its franchise player. Smith was the 4th player taken overall at the 2001 draft. By using the franchise tag, the Bengals have the right to match any offer sheet Smith would receive from another team, and if Smith were to sign with another team, they would receive compensation in the form of first-round picks in the 2007 and 2008 drafts. In turn, the team is committed to paying Smith a one-year salary equal to the average of the five highest-paid defensive ends in the league; that amount is $8.6 million, according to figures released by the NFL Players Association during Super Bowl week. Teams have until next Thursday to tag players. In tagging Smith, though, the Bengals have pretty much conceded losing OG Eric Steinbach once free agency starts next week.

Get this kid signed and focus our first 2 picks on either OT or WR. No brainer.

 

[Hostile]

I am so in favor of that.

 

[superpunk]

IF we are going to get a big name free agent guard, I don't think we could make a better choice than Steinbach. If there's one are where we are pretty devoid of talent, it is at guard, with no prospects on the way except for Procter, and who knows how he's gonna pan out. Steinbach is the one free agent I think we almost can't live without. The price will be high, but plugging that gaping hole we know as Marco Rivera has got to be a priority.

See also Cooper Carlisle.

 

[dbair1967]

guards can be plugged in and with decent coaching be mor than adequate without investing a huge some of money...Rivera was a waste of money and more often than not high draft picks used on guards are wastes of money

David

 

[The Realist]

guards can be plugged in and with decent coaching be mor than adequate without investing a huge some of money...Rivera was a waste of money and more often than not high draft picks used on guards are wastes of money

David

Disagree on high draft picks at OG.

Record is off the charts strong.

 

[dbair1967]

Disagree on high draft picks at OG.

Record is off the charts strong.

really? care to name some?

Chris Neole comes to mind immediately, and he was a waste

David

 

[dannyboy]

My thought is we are stuck with Rivera this year due to his signing bonus of $9 million(1.8/year-5yr contract). If I assume correctly, if we cut him now, we are charged $5.4 this year. I say we draft his replacement with the 23rd pick (Justin Blalock) and release him next year. Free Agency for Guards will be to $$$. Also, go after Deon Grant/Mike Doss for the FS position. I'd kept Henry at CB as the new style of defense will get to the QB and allow him to do a better job overall of covering the receiver

Draft
1-Justin Blalock-I like him as he can also handle OT if needed
2-Victor Abiamira-backup Carpender OLB/on passing downs Carp ILB and Vic OLB or DE
3-Top CB to replace Aaron Glenn next year
4-Top DT to back up Ferg
5-Top WR

 

[superpunk]

1st and second round Gs, last 2000-2005

2005
Logan Mankins - Patriots
David Baas - 49ers
Marcus Johnson - Vikings

2004
Shawn Andrews - Iggles
Chris Snee - Giants
Justin Smiley - 49ers

2003
Eric Steinbach - Bengals

2002
Kendall Simmons - Steelers
Toniu Fonoti - Chargers
Chester Pitts - Houston
Langston Walker - Oakland

2001
Steve Hutchinson - Seattle

2000
Travis Claridge - Atlanta
Adrian Klemm - Patriots
Cosey Coleman - Bucs
Bobbie Williams - Philly


So, it looks like picking Guards high has a pretty good success rate - BUT - teams don't value them that much to take them high. So, if they're taking them in rounds 1 or 2, they're pretty much solid takes, and great prospects. Of the positions along the Oline, it is probably the least value, and can be filled cheaply by getting a guy who fits what you DO, moreso than a blue-chipper.

 

[sago1]

SD Chargers' Diehlman is also a very good OG so either he or Steinbech have my vote, although if Cowboys can come up with a legit FA OG whose close to these two, I've got no problem with that. But if we must pay some big bucks then RG is the place to go cause we'd be adding an immediate starting quality player in between 2nd year starting OL Gurode and Colombo (assuming we re-sign both of them).

Don't know what we do about OT position given Parcells high on McQuistan but frankly don't want to take that chance. So I'd use our 2nd round pick on an OT and reserve our first round pick for a CB who may also be able FS if needed.

Don't see us signing a WR in first round. We've already got TO & Glenn with Crayton (if we re-sign) as #3 WR and unknown young WRs Hurd & Austin. Now if JJ not planning bring TO back, then situation becomes very different but we kinda find out what Hurd & Austin can do. Of course Phillips, Garrett & Sherman bring new eyes to this offensive area. NO drafted a WR in 7th round and he turned out pretty good cause Payton gave him a chance to play. So the fact that neither Hurd nor Austin drafted cause both also came from small schools as did NO WR only means they need the opportunity; which hopefully we see more of this year. I seem to recall that Parcells didn't try to put either of these 2 young WRs on the PS cause he already know from our scouting department that other NFL teams planning grab them off waiver wire if we did. That tells me other teams had some legitimate interest in these two guys.

 

[The Realist]

really? care to name some?

Chris Neole comes to mind immediately, and he was a waste

David

Sure guy, heere you go.

Davin Joseph - #23 Stud, 1 year, 12 starts (camp injury)


Logan Mankins - #32 Stud. Super Bowl winner, 2 years, 32 starts


Chris Snee - #34 Stud, 3 years 43 starts


Eric Steinbach - #33 Stud, 4 years 62 starts, This year's prized possession OG in FA


Kendall Simmons - #30 Stud. Super Bowl winner, 5 years, 60 starts (missed 04)


Steve Hutchison - #17 Stud. Super Bowl, 6 years, 84 starts, 5 Pro Bowls


Mike Wahle - 2nd round comp pick Stud, 9 years, 112 starts, 1 Pro Bowl


Alan Faneca - #26 Stud. Super Bowl winner, 9 years, 137 starts, 7 Pro Bowls


Chris Naeole - #10 Stud, 10 years, 142 starts


Ross Verba - #30 Former stud LT and OG, 10 years, 107 Starts, morphing into Bison Dele


Pete Kendall - #21 Stud. 11 years, 156 starts (This is Eric Steinbach's future).


Jeff Hartings - #23 Stud. Super Bowl winner, 11 years, 160 starts, 2 Pro Bowls


Jermane Mayberry - #25 Very, very solid. Super Bowl. 11 years, 104 starts, 1 Pro Bowl


Shawn Andrews - #16 Stud. 3 years, 33 starts, 2 Pro Bowls

Ruben Brown - #14 Stud. 12 years, 173 starts, Super Bowl, 8 Pro Bowls

Matt O'Dwyer -#33 solid. 10 years, 105 starts, Jets 1998 AFC Title game member

We could use any one of those guys in their prime.

So could any GM.

All first rounders or high two's over the last 10 ish years.

 

[Stash]

Sure guy, heere you go.

Davin Joseph - #23 Stud, 1 year, 12 starts (camp injury)


Logan Mankins - #32 Stud. Super Bowl winner, 2 years, 32 starts


Chris Snee - #34 Stud, 3 years 43 starts


Eric Steinbach - #33 Stud, 4 years 62 starts


Kendall Simmons - #30 Stud. Super Bowl winner, 5 years, 60 starts (missed 04)


Steve Hutchison - #17 Stud. Super Bowl, 6 years, 84 starts, 5 Pro Bowls


Mike Wahle - 2nd round comp pick Stud, 9 years, 112 starts, 1 Pro Bowl


Alan Faneca - #26 Stud. Super Bowl winner, 9 years, 137 starts, 7 Pro Bowls


Chris Naeole - #10 Stud, 10 years, 142 starts


Ross Verba - #30 Former stud LT and OG, 10 years, 107 Starts, morphing into Bison Dele


Pete Kendall - #21 Stud. 11 years, 156 starts (This is Eric Steinbach's future).


Jeff Hartings - #23 Stud. Super Bowl winner, 11 years, 160 starts, 2 Pro Bowls


Jermane Mayberry - #25 Very, very solid. 11 years, 104 starts, 1 Pro Bowl


Shawn Andrews - #16 Stud. 3 years, 33 starts, 2 Pro Bowls

Ruben Brown - #14 Stud. 12 years, 173 starts, Super Bowl, 8 Pro Bowls

Matt O'Dwyer -#33 solid. 10 years, 105 starts, Jets 1998 AFC Title game member

We could use any one of those guys in their prime.

So could any GM.

All first rounders or high two's over the last 10 ish years.

Ouch!

Owned!

 

[Chocolate Lab]

I'd still rather get Dielman. It's not so much that I think he's better than Steinbach, but I think Steinbach is going to get a megasized Hutchinson-type deal from someone, and I don't know if it should be us. Dielman is very good, is a mean, mauler type like we could use, and has the Phillips connections so that he might actually want to come here.

 

[Stash]

I'd still rather get Dielman. It's not so much that I think he's better than Steinbach, but I think Steinbach is going to get a megasized Hutchinson-type deal from someone, and I don't know if it should be us. Dielman is very good, is a mean, mauler type like we could use, and has the Phillips connections so that he might actually want to come here.

I agree Choc, Dielman is tops on my "wish list" too.

I think he's more physical than Steinbach and would be a better fit in Dallas - not to mention cheaper.

 

[dwmyers]

guards can be plugged in and with decent coaching be mor than adequate without investing a huge some of money...Rivera was a waste of money and more often than not high draft picks used on guards are wastes of money

David

I would agree with this. But there is a certain minority on this board who are OL obsessed and would waste every draft pick and free agent imaginable on the OL. The defense had far more severe problems than the offense, but getting rid of our starting RG has to be more important than any other problem we have.

And as far as picks go, remember the Tooz? What about Robert Gallery? In a risk reward scenario where only 50% of first round picks succeed, do you want to invest all that in a RG?

Has anyone bothered to ask themselves what the average draft position is for starting guards in the league?

David.

 

[Cowboy4ever]

I do not want to go after a FA Guard at all. After the contract that Hutch got last year.. the price tag will be way more than it should be. I would be very happy to cut Rivera, draft a Guard and let the Draft pick and Proctor fight it out for the starting job. My target guard is Ben Grubbs from AU. If I think he is there early 2nd round, i try to trade out of the 1st and pick up an extra pick,, if I don't think he will be there.. then i take him at 22. Much cheaper to draft and develop then to spend enormous money on a FA.

 

[The Realist]

I would agree with this. But there is a certain minority on this board who are OL obsessed and would waste every draft pick and free agent imaginable on the OL. The defense had far more severe problems than the offense, but getting rid of our starting RG has to be more important than any other problem we have.

And as far as picks go, remember the Tooz? What about Robert Gallery? In a risk reward scenario where only 50% of first round picks succeed, do you want to invest all that in a RG?

Has anyone bothered to ask themselves what the average draft position is for starting guards in the league?
David.

Good point, but maybe a better question would be where was the average Pro Bowl guard drafted?

 

[dwmyers]

Good point, but maybe a better question would be where was the average Pro Bowl guard drafted?

If you could replace any position on the team with an All-Pro, which position would yield the biggest net benefit to the team?

You may not like our RG, but he is a serviceable RG. Our offense may not be to your liking, but it was the #5 offense in the league. Our defense has a lot more catching up to do.

I think by this criterion, I'd rather get an All pro free safety, or perhaps an All pro ILB.

David.

 

[Stash]

If you could replace any position on the team with an All-Pro, which position would yield the biggest net benefit to the team?

You may not like our RG, but he is a serviceable RG. Our offense may not be to your liking, but it was the #5 offense in the league. Our defense has a lot more catching up to do.

I think by this criterion, I'd rather get an All pro free safety, or perhaps an All pro ILB.

David.

How would you justify paying a free agent ILB big money and then sitting James or Ayodele - both of whom already make big money?

 

[dwmyers]

How would you justify paying a free agent ILB big money and then sitting James or Ayodele - both of whom already make big money?

That assumes I use free agency to get an all pro. That assumes I keep those two if I have replaced them.

A lot of what is being discussed here is good stuff. I think if we can get a replacement guard for Rivera in free agency, and it doesn't break the budget, do it. But I don't think I'd want to throw a first round draft choice unequivocally into a RG. We have too many things to fix to throw this draft entirely to offensive linemen.

David.

 

[Stash]

That assumes I use free agency to get an all pro. That assumes I keep those two if I have replaced them.

A lot of what is being discussed here is good stuff. I think if we can get a replacement guard for Rivera in free agency, and it doesn't break the budget, do it. But I don't think I'd want to throw a first round draft choice unequivocally into a RG. We have too many things to fix to throw this draft entirely to offensive linemen.

David.

James and Ayodele just signed big-money deals - cutting either is not an option at this point. For better or worse, I think the cowboys have to stand pat at ILB. Both have shown that they can play, so that might not be the worst thing.

I wouldn't throw an entire draft at offensive line, but I feel that a significant investment needs to be made there, more than any other area.

Despite the offense's 5th ranking, I think it was obvious that the offensive line was far from dominant, with substantial area for improvement.