CFZ The flaw with the Jones and their roster building

[Sydla]

I don't think they look at player personnel, at least when it comes to FA, through the prism of position needs or overall team needs. They just look at players. They just want to grab bodies, especially their own, in FA.

Randy Gregory is a good DE. He's not a great DE. He was offered $70 million which is a pretty large contract for a DE. That kind of contract would give you the impression that the Cowboys realize they have a big need at DE opposite Lawrence. And yet, when Gregory bolts, they make no moves to land an equally talented or better DE. That $70 million "budgeted" for DE vaporizes. Because it wasn't budgeted for a high level DE. It was just budgeted for Gregory. They signed a couple of cheapies and move onto the draft. They didn't slot $70 million to get better (or at least not regress) at DE. They just slotted the money for Gregory, only.

Take Elliott. They paid him a massive contract. One would think that it's because they view the importance of a TB to this offense, hence why they paid a talented TB all that money. But if Elliott could retire tomorrow with no cap implications for the Cowboys and Henry or Kamara or Cook were free agents, would the Cowboys spend that kind of money on talented TBs to replace him? Nope.

What we are seeing is a disconnect between what they are willing to pay their own players that they like and what they are willing to pay to fill the position if "their" player left or wasn't here.

 

[Captain-Crash]

hum and the awakening begins.

slow fans.

 

[fivetwos]

It would appear to me that each player is viewed in its own box instead of part of an overall plan.

The Gregory situation fully supports that.

I'd be more enthusiastic about the idea of purging some entitled types off the roster, but they fully wanted to bring back Gregory and guarantee that lunatic 28 million.

And as I've said already.....the Cooper and Schultz moves contradict themselves.

There's no PLAN here. They just don't know what they are doing, and that makes full sense when you realize that they aren't qualified to do the job that they gave themselves.

 

[Reid1boys]

I don't think they look at player personnel, at least when it comes to FA, through the prism of position needs or overall team needs. They just look at players. They just want to grab bodies, especially their own, in FA.

Randy Gregory is a good DE. He's not a great DE. He was offered $70 million which is a pretty large contract for a DE. That kind of contract would give you the impression that the Cowboys realize they have a big need at DE opposite Lawrence. And yet, when Gregory bolts, they make no moves to land an equally talented or better DE. That $70 million "budgeted" for DE vaporizes. Because it wasn't budgeted for a high level DE. It was just budgeted for Gregory. They signed a couple of cheapies and move onto the draft. They didn't slot $70 million to get better (or at least not regress) at DE. They just slotted the money for Gregory, only.

Take Elliott. They paid him a massive contract. One would think that it's because they view the importance of a TB to this offense, hence why they paid a talented TB all that money. But if Elliott could retire tomorrow with no cap implications for the Cowboys and Henry or Kamara or Cook were free agents, would the Cowboys spend that kind of money on talented TBs to replace him? Nope.

What we are seeing is a disconnect between what they are willing to pay their own players that they like and what they are willing to pay to fill the position if "their" player left or wasn't here.

take our exact roster last year and switch Dak with Joe Burrow or Mahomes..... IM thinking wed win a few playoff games.

 

[Wolfpack]

Correct.

Paying Gregory validated their long investment in him (and ego) thus was worth the cash.

 

[jazzcat22]

take our exact roster last year and switch Dak with Joe Burrow or Mahomes..... IM thinking wed win a few playoff games.

That is true with a lot of teams.
I mean, Rodgers and GB with HFA were one and done. So if they had Burrow, they could have went to the SB.

is not that the same analogy?

 

[jazzcat22]

After Gregory’s 1st sack, fans on here will be going crazy.

 

[NoLuv4Jerry]

I don't think they look at player personnel, at least when it comes to FA, through the prism of position needs or overall team needs. They just look at players. They just want to grab bodies, especially their own, in FA.

Randy Gregory is a good DE. He's not a great DE. He was offered $70 million which is a pretty large contract for a DE. That kind of contract would give you the impression that the Cowboys realize they have a big need at DE opposite Lawrence. And yet, when Gregory bolts, they make no moves to land an equally talented or better DE. That $70 million "budgeted" for DE vaporizes. Because it wasn't budgeted for a high level DE. It was just budgeted for Gregory. They signed a couple of cheapies and move onto the draft. They didn't slot $70 million to get better (or at least not regress) at DE. They just slotted the money for Gregory, only.

Take Elliott. They paid him a massive contract. One would think that it's because they view the importance of a TB to this offense, hence why they paid a talented TB all that money. But if Elliott could retire tomorrow with no cap implications for the Cowboys and Henry or Kamara or Cook were free agents, would the Cowboys spend that kind of money on talented TBs to replace him? Nope.

What we are seeing is a disconnect between what they are willing to pay their own players that they like and what they are willing to pay to fill the position if "their" player left or wasn't here.

You are right. But they have made it very clear as to WHY they do this. They feel like they are "around" their "own" everyday...so they KNOW what they are getting when they keep their own. They don't "know" what they are getting when they sign someone that belonged to someone else....so they don't want to spend a TON of money on "unknowns".

 

[DanTanna]

I check this site a few times a day to see if Jerry has done something stupid. LOL. Most of the time I am fulfilled.

 

[Ranched]

I check this site a few times a day to see if Jerry has done something stupid. LOL. Most of the time I am fulfilled.

This will cheer ya up!

 

[fivetwos]

After Gregory’s 1st sack, fans on here will be going crazy.

I expect him to play very well initially.

I also expect him cut after year two.

 

[Plankton]

The flaw is the fact that the self appointed personnel gurus on the Cowboys have no philosophy for team building. They couldn't tell you what a Cowboy player looks like, what kind of physical traits they are looking for in a player, the importance of chemistry in the lockerroom or how the puzzle fits together. They are weather vanes - they go where the wind blows.

 

[fivetwos]

You are right. But they have made it very clear as to WHY they do this. They feel like they are "around" their "own" everyday...so they KNOW what they are getting when they keep their own. They don't "know" what they are getting when they sign someone that belonged to someone else....so they don't want to spend a TON of money on "unknowns".

Every team ought to have a pro personnel department that knows the rest of the league inside and out.

It's not THEM themselves in this case so they don't trust it.

It's a deeply flawed structure that they swear is a unique advantage that no one else uses anywhere in pro sports.

Nevermind the failure.

And how DARE some of you complain!!

 

[conner01]

You are right. But they have made it very clear as to WHY they do this. They feel like they are "around" their "own" everyday...so they KNOW what they are getting when they keep their own. They don't "know" what they are getting when they sign someone that belonged to someone else....so they don't want to spend a TON of money on "unknowns".

Exactly
They value the guy the know over the guy they don’t know above all other. While is get they were burned on some guys in the past, that doesn’t mean you can just stop trying. And a guy that built his fortune in the oil business should know that they aren’t all wins, you are gonna have loses. You are gonna sign guys that don’t live up to their contract. And you can just as easily sign a guy you know who doesn’t live up to their contract
I get being cautious with some unknowns but sometimes you just have to roll the dice

 

[Sydla]

take our exact roster last year and switch Dak with Joe Burrow or Mahomes..... IM thinking wed win a few playoff games.

I am no Dak apologist but I think we have issues roster wise and coaching wise that go beyond Dak. Not that Dak should be free from blame himself.

 

[Jenky]

I don't think they look at player personnel, at least when it comes to FA, through the prism of position needs or overall team needs. They just look at players. They just want to grab bodies, especially their own, in FA.

Randy Gregory is a good DE. He's not a great DE. He was offered $70 million which is a pretty large contract for a DE. That kind of contract would give you the impression that the Cowboys realize they have a big need at DE opposite Lawrence. And yet, when Gregory bolts, they make no moves to land an equally talented or better DE. That $70 million "budgeted" for DE vaporizes. Because it wasn't budgeted for a high level DE. It was just budgeted for Gregory. They signed a couple of cheapies and move onto the draft. They didn't slot $70 million to get better (or at least not regress) at DE. They just slotted the money for Gregory, only.

Take Elliott. They paid him a massive contract. One would think that it's because they view the importance of a TB to this offense, hence why they paid a talented TB all that money. But if Elliott could retire tomorrow with no cap implications for the Cowboys and Henry or Kamara or Cook were free agents, would the Cowboys spend that kind of money on talented TBs to replace him? Nope.

What we are seeing is a disconnect between what they are willing to pay their own players that they like and what they are willing to pay to fill the position if "their" player left or wasn't here.

Already talked about before. They like paying players they've drafted and developed no matter how they compare to other FAs out there. It's a flawed way of thinking, especially when other teams are in a win now mode which has been proven to work.

Within the last 10 years or so, they've only signed external players like Brandon Carr and Amari Cooper to lucrative deals.

I also believe Stephen Jones is full of himself and thinks he can negotiate his own way. The guy has no track record and thinks he's special.

 

[RS12]

The flaw?

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I don't think they look at player personnel, at least when it comes to FA, through the prism of position needs or overall team needs. They just look at players. They just want to grab bodies, especially their own, in FA.

Randy Gregory is a good DE. He's not a great DE. He was offered $70 million which is a pretty large contract for a DE. That kind of contract would give you the impression that the Cowboys realize they have a big need at DE opposite Lawrence. And yet, when Gregory bolts, they make no moves to land an equally talented or better DE. That $70 million "budgeted" for DE vaporizes. Because it wasn't budgeted for a high level DE. It was just budgeted for Gregory. They signed a couple of cheapies and move onto the draft. They didn't slot $70 million to get better (or at least not regress) at DE. They just slotted the money for Gregory, only.

Take Elliott. They paid him a massive contract. One would think that it's because they view the importance of a TB to this offense, hence why they paid a talented TB all that money. But if Elliott could retire tomorrow with no cap implications for the Cowboys and Henry or Kamara or Cook were free agents, would the Cowboys spend that kind of money on talented TBs to replace him? Nope.

What we are seeing is a disconnect between what they are willing to pay their own players that they like and what they are willing to pay to fill the position if "their" player left or wasn't here.

this is pretty much spot on. somebody posted an article from a writer which kind of described what you just said. Cowboys tend to reward their own players, similar to companies who promote their employees and reward them for work well done, despite their future potential and their limitations. they hardly take into account potential of a player over the future and his contributions to team success in awarding contracts. That's why they have been really bad in FA, as they shy away from big signings.

so why is that?

I said it in response to that other posts that we have an issue with assessing players and how they fit into a philosophy. we are thus afraid to make the wrong assessment and hand out a big contract to a FA and it doesn't work out. it has happened a couple of times in the past, so perhaps the Owner/GM and his accountant son have become gun shy. they hand out small contracts that are no risk. low cost. when was the last time we took a big dip and signed a big name FA? its been quite a while. that also fits in the mindset of rewarding our own players, because we have first hand knowledge, seen them play with the group we have, we know their contributions and we are "comfortable". thus they hand out contracts to Lawrence (unwarranted) or Zeke (unwarranted). the last time they made a splash move was trade for cooper and that was painfully obvious given using the same FA philosophy they ended up having a group that truly sucked. again, a no risk/low risk approach. also, their investment $s in Cooper was low (he was on original rookie contract) and they gave up draft picks that doesn't cost money (and it was offset against the allocated $s for 1st round picks). they got two years+ to ***** and hand him a large contract. (promote, reward)

this year, we have botched the Gregory deal. we have passed on Miller and Wagner, who both could tremendously help this team. miller's contract on the surface seems large, but its a 3 year 57M deal. if he can give you two good years and get your to NFCCG, then it was a good deal. why not cut Lawrence and bring miller instead? the money difference is very small. Stephen just killed the wagner deal. of course Wagner was asking for a lot, but at 11M, Stephen isn't willing to spend.

and Jerry's other problem is he gets personal with the player, thus muddying the lines of authority between players and GM, and sometimes allowing the players to over ride the coach. Jaylon Smith was a great example. he also plays fantasy football (per se), as he signed Zeke to large contract thinking he was key to the superbowl run and that he had a superbowl ready team (again, can't assess players appropriately).

and right now, what is the team philosophy? I don't think there is any. this team has no identity. this team is soft. this team is not about winning. this team is about looking good, for marketing and fans, not winning championships.

right now we are caught in between (which is never good), Jerry playing fanstasy football and wanting some big names and Stephen who can't assess football players and is afraid to spend or invest any money.

its only going to get worse as stephen gets more involved.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

take our exact roster last year and switch Dak with Joe Burrow or Mahomes..... IM thinking wed win a few playoff games.

but I doubt if we would still be a superbowl team....players come to Dallas to vanish.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

You are right. But they have made it very clear as to WHY they do this. They feel like they are "around" their "own" everyday...so they KNOW what they are getting when they keep their own. They don't "know" what they are getting when they sign someone that belonged to someone else....so they don't want to spend a TON of money on "unknowns".

its because they don't know how to assess talent and the don't have a philosophy or plan,