The Green/Zion Debate at 24

[Cowboyny]

Clearly the team has a huge hole at starting LG as they let Connor Williams walk, Collins released and McGovern failing as a starter. They will probably add some depth in fa, but they are hunting Guards in this year's draft.

If both Kenyon Green and Zion Johnson are available at 24, assuming no trade down is an option and they offer the most value on their board, who is your pick?

-Floor vs Ceiling? Zion may have the higher floor, but Green has the bigger, upside potential.
-Who possesses the best positional flex? Both have the versatility to play all 5 positions.
-Scheme versatility, can they play in both zone/man scheme? Yes
-Do they have the strength to anchor effectively, can they handle the bigger lineman? Yes
-Green is the better run blocker, where Zion is the better pass protector.
-Zion plays generally clean, where Green has struggled with penalties especially as a Tackle.

I truly believe we are splitting hairs with both prospects. Green just turning 21 and having success in the SEC has the edge from me, but wouldn't hate drafting Zion either.

 

[cowboyec]

green is the guy i've wanted all along.
love his versatility.
but after looking at those spider-webs on mockdraftable...im leanin' towards zion.

 

[Hardline]

Can't go wrong with either. Flip a coin.

 

[Dalmations202]

I've seen many more of KGreens games than Zion's so give me KGreen.........but I wouldn't be upset if it was Zion either.

 

[Daillest88]

Yea happy with either one, slight edge to Zion tho.

 

[beware_d-ware]

I'd grade them really closely, but probably Zion by a hair.

 

[visionary]

I’ve been a fan of Green but would be ok with Zion
Of both are available I would hope for a small trade down for a rd 2 or 3 pick and still get one of them and another starter

 

[garyv]

Clearly the team has a huge hole at starting LG as they let Connor Williams walk, Collins released and McGovern failing as a starter. They will probably add some depth in fa, but they are hunting Guards in this year's draft.

If both Kenyon Green and Zion Johnson are available at 24, assuming no trade down is an option and they offer the most value on their board, who is your pick?

-Floor vs Ceiling? Zion may have the higher floor, but Green has the bigger, upside potential.
-Who possesses the best positional flex? Both have the versatility to play all 5 positions.
-Scheme versatility, can they play in both zone/man scheme? Yes
-Do they have the strength to anchor effectively, can they handle the bigger lineman? Yes
-Green is the better run blocker, where Zion is the better pass protector.
-Zion plays generally clean, where Green has struggled with penalties especially as a Tackle.

I truly believe we are splitting hairs with both prospects. Green just turning 21 and having success in the SEC has the edge from me, but wouldn't hate drafting Zion either.

One difference AGE I believe there is a 2 year age difference between them. Green is younger.

 

[morasp]

Linderbaum
Green
Johnson

 

[RS12]

Small thing but was reading a local article on BC pro day. They mentioned Zion had spent 2 years at JC and 3 years at BC. Meaning he is a slightly over age prospect. Add that he plays interior only. I wonder if he slides a little.

 

[garyv]

Small thing but was reading a local article on BC pro day. They mentioned Zion had spent 2 years at JC and 3 years at BC. Meaning he is a slightly over age prospect. Add that he plays interior only. I wonder if he slides a little.

Yes I mentioned above Green is turning 21 and Zion 23

 

[Acceptablename]

I’m reactionary. After watching the interior of the offensive line get lifted off their F>>>ing feet game after game I want power and I think Green appears to have that edge. Both are really good one or the other..

 

[Cowboyny]

green is the guy i've wanted all along.
love his versatility.
but after looking at those spider-webs on mockdraftable...im leanin' towards zion.

I still lean towards Green due to his prowess as a run blocker, which this team really needs.

 

[fivetwos]

Clearly the team has a huge hole at starting LG as they let Connor Williams walk, Collins released and McGovern failing as a starter. They will probably add some depth in fa, but they are hunting Guards in this year's draft.

If both Kenyon Green and Zion Johnson are available at 24, assuming no trade down is an option and they offer the most value on their board, who is your pick?

-Floor vs Ceiling? Zion may have the higher floor, but Green has the bigger, upside potential.
-Who possesses the best positional flex? Both have the versatility to play all 5 positions.
-Scheme versatility, can they play in both zone/man scheme? Yes
-Do they have the strength to anchor effectively, can they handle the bigger lineman? Yes
-Green is the better run blocker, where Zion is the better pass protector.
-Zion plays generally clean, where Green has struggled with penalties especially as a Tackle.

I truly believe we are splitting hairs with both prospects. Green just turning 21 and having success in the SEC has the edge from me, but wouldn't hate drafting Zion either.

Nice topic....and a very real one most likely.

At times I feel like Green has no shot of being there, then I remember the almighty David DeCastro made it to pick 24 also. Great player, but very hyped headed into that draft as a no doubt very high pick. Nelson and Scherff may have changed things slightly since, but there's still a certain view of interior OL as not being a premium position.

My feeling is Green will have the higher grade and will be the pick if there.

Johnson will get a first round grade despite the team only issuing 18-20. They will place a lot of value on position flex (they will devalue Linderbaum for lack of the same and his size).

Based on FA activity it's fair to assume that the team will prioritize OL in round one.

So, Green if there....likely Johnson if not.

 

[Cowboyny]

Small thing but was reading a local article on BC pro day. They mentioned Zion had spent 2 years at JC and 3 years at BC. Meaning he is a slightly over age prospect. Add that he plays interior only. I wonder if he slides a little.

Yes, he is the older prospect and not as versatile as Green, but he could probably play all the interior positions in a pinch.

 

[Cowboyny]

I’m reactionary. After watching the interior of the offensive line get lifted off their F>>>ing feet game after game I want power and I think Green appears to have that edge. Both are really good one or the other..

Green does have the power, but he needs some development in pass protection. What I gather he is similar to Collins with inconsistent hand placement, but that is less of a factor playing inside.

 

[Cowboyny]

Nice topic....and a very real one most likely.

At times I feel like Green has no shot of being there, then I remember the almighty David DeCastro made it to pick 24 also. Great player, but very hyped headed into that draft as a no doubt very high pick. Nelson and Scherff may have changed things slightly since, but there's still a certain view of interior OL as not being a premium position.

My feeling is Green will have the higher grade and will be the pick if there.

Johnson will get a first round grade despite the team only issuing 18-20. They will place a lot of value on position flex (they will devalue Linderbaum for lack of the same and his size).

Based on FA activity it's fair to assume that the team will prioritize OL in round one.

So, Green if there....likely Johnson if not.

I believe the Cowboys will have 1st rd grades on both players, but probably will have Green higher. Their issues have been at LG/C playing against power players who collapse the pocket.

 

[xwalker]

Clearly the team has a huge hole at starting LG as they let Connor Williams walk, Collins released and McGovern failing as a starter. They will probably add some depth in fa, but they are hunting Guards in this year's draft.

If both Kenyon Green and Zion Johnson are available at 24, assuming no trade down is an option and they offer the most value on their board, who is your pick?

-Floor vs Ceiling? Zion may have the higher floor, but Green has the bigger, upside potential.
-Who possesses the best positional flex? Both have the versatility to play all 5 positions.
-Scheme versatility, can they play in both zone/man scheme? Yes
-Do they have the strength to anchor effectively, can they handle the bigger lineman? Yes
-Green is the better run blocker, where Zion is the better pass protector.
-Zion plays generally clean, where Green has struggled with penalties especially as a Tackle.

I truly believe we are splitting hairs with both prospects. Green just turning 21 and having success in the SEC has the edge from me, but wouldn't hate drafting Zion either.

I would be tempted to consider Tyler Smith.

He as power like Green and Zion to play OG but has legit NFL LT athletic ability.

The issue that he basically has no technique. He just lines up and plays when the ball is snapped.
- Small college and young OL coach might have been part of the lack of technique issue.
- Larry Allen had no technique in college and didn't really have much technique in the NFL. He didn't it.

If Smith had played OG only in college, even with the technique issues, he would likely be rated higher because most of his negative plays were at LT.

I would like to know if the Cowboys believe that Zion is a legit option at OC.

Green is not an OT in the NFL regardless of what he did in college.

I would definitely consider a trade down if that option is available.
- I just don't see a huge difference in the options at #24 as compared to the next 10 to 15 picks.

 

[beware_d-ware]

One difference AGE I believe there is a 2 year age difference between them. Green is younger.

Thanks for pointing that out... I never noticed it. Age is a huge factor in college, and especially for linemen.

 

[Cowboyny]

I would be tempted to consider Tyler Smith.

He as power like Green and Zion to play OG but has legit NFL LT athletic ability.

The issue that he basically has no technique. He just lines up and plays when the ball is snapped.
- Small college and young OL coach might have been part of the lack of technique issue.
- Larry Allen had no technique in college and didn't really have much technique in the NFL. He didn't it.

If Smith had played OG only in college, even with the technique issues, he would likely be rated higher because most of his negative plays were at LT.

I would like to know if the Cowboys believe that Zion is a legit option at OC.

Green is not an OT in the NFL regardless of what he did in college.

I would definitely consider a trade down if that option is available.
- I just don't see a huge difference in the options at #24 as compared to the next 10 to 15 picks.

-I believe trade downs will be difficult this yr as there will be several prospects with similar grades after the top 10-15 players. It's going to be more of a flavor of ice cream 1st rd, which players are the best fits.

-I do agree, both Green/Zion will both be interior only players on the NFL Level. Zion tried Center at the Senior Bowl for the first time with some struggles, Green has started 1 game on the college level at the position. There is a picture at Green's pro day snapping in front of Philbin, which he may asked him to do.

-Tyler Smith is a very raw player that struggled badly with penalties on the college level. To be fair, Green had struggles in that area as well, more so playing the Tackle position. Green's scouting report actually reminds me of Collins, struggles with his hand placement. For Tyler Smith, playing him inside at least initially hides some of his concerns, but they are going to have to rework his technique and footwork. Will they have the patience to draft a player who may not to be ready day 1 in the first rd?