The Green/Zion Debate at 24

[baltcowboy]

They usually spend their 1st rd pick on immediate, plug and play impact starters, which Smith probably won't be. The fanbase will be screaming bust if their 1st rd pick doesn't make an early impact. With MM on the hot seat, I doubt he would like the idea of red shirting their 1st rd selection. Unless they trade back, which I don't see happening, I cannot envision them taking Smith. I understanding your point, but this franchise never plays the long game with their 1st rd picks.

It depends what the coaches think. If Philbon says to the Joneses I can develop this guy by the end of the season the Joneses will listen. I think if the Cowboys pass on Green it’s a red flag. They have watched him and plan to meet with him. Let’s see what other guards they bring in. The Cowboys don’t draft average upside players with their first round picks. Zeke was considered the best running back prospect in years, LVE SPARQ score was top level,CeeDee was a top 6 player on their board, and Parsons was graded the best defensive player in the draft. Martin was your plug and play starter but he was a top rated tackle who would be a top 10 pick in this draft. If you tell the Joneses they have a future Martin or Allen on their hands they will draft them.

 

[Cowboyny]

It depends what the coaches think. If Philbon says to the Joneses I can develop this guy by the end of the season the Joneses will listen. I think if the Cowboys pass on Green it’s a red flag. They have watched him and plan to meet with him. Let’s see what other guards they bring in. The Cowboys don’t draft average upside players with their first round picks. Zeke was considered the best running back prospect in years, LVE SPARQ score was top level,CeeDee was a top 6 player on their board, and Parsons was graded the best defensive player in the draft. Martin was your plug and play starter but he was a top rated tackle who would be a top 10 pick in this draft. If you tell the Joneses they have a future Martin or Allen on their hands they will draft them.

Jerry did draft Larry Allen. Have you watched Tyler Smith? He has no idea what he is doing, just beating his man with his strength. A complete overhaul and reprogram is needed from his technique and footwork. He could become a monster, but we have no idea if he is willing to work on his craft or he just will continue to use his natural gifts. There is upside, but awfully a lot of risk involved. As I said, no issue taking him in rd 2, but not at 24.

 

[baltcowboy]

Jerry did draft Larry Allen. Have you watched Tyler Smith? He has no idea what he is doing, just beating his man with his strength. A complete overhaul and reprogram is needed from his technique and footwork. He could become a monster, but we have I no idea if he is willing to work on his craft or he just will continue to use his natural gifts. There is upside, but awfully a lot of risk involved. As I said, no issue taking him in rd 2, but not at 24.

I keep hearing how he is a 3rd round pick from talking heads and board posters but I keep seeing his name going in the first round in mocks from the likes of Kiper, Zerlien and Jeremiah. They know something so I guess we will see.

 

[Cowboyny]

I keep hearing how he is a 3rd round pick from talking heads and board posters but I keep seeing his name going in the first round in mocks from the likes of Kiper, Zerlien and Jeremiah. They know something so I guess we will see.

Pauline said both the Jets/Jax like him but they don’t expect him to be there in the top of rd 2

 

[baltcowboy]

Maybe a trade down with a team in the late 20s. I want the extra 3rd badly.

 

[garyv]

Green just turned 21 and Zion will be 23 at the start of the season.

I really think I'm liking Kenyon Green as as replacement for Conner Williams playing OG for the Cowboys and reading alot of articles its something about his anchor being so much better than Conner Williams and the fact he is an elite run blocker and serviceable pass blocker. I was tired of seeing Conner push 3 feet backwards. I honestly can't see that with Green built more like Nate Newton was wide hips and wide base plus he's 325 lbs. We need this nasty on our line.

https://www.bloggingtheboys.com/202...nyon-green-connor-williams-mcgovern-nfl-draft

 

[rambo2]

Clearly the team has a huge hole at starting LG as they let Connor Williams walk, Collins released and McGovern failing as a starter. They will probably add some depth in fa, but they are hunting Guards in this year's draft.

If both Kenyon Green and Zion Johnson are available at 24, assuming no trade down is an option and they offer the most value on their board, who is your pick?

-Floor vs Ceiling? Zion may have the higher floor, but Green has the bigger, upside potential.
-Who possesses the best positional flex? Both have the versatility to play all 5 positions.
-Scheme versatility, can they play in both zone/man scheme? Yes
-Do they have the strength to anchor effectively, can they handle the bigger lineman? Yes
-Green is the better run blocker, where Zion is the better pass protector.
-Zion plays generally clean, where Green has struggled with penalties especially as a Tackle.

I truly believe we are splitting hairs with both prospects. Green just turning 21 and having success in the SEC has the edge from me, but wouldn't hate drafting Zion either.

They could also take the Iowa center in the 1st and take the Virginia Tech guard in the 2nd. How would you like that?

 

[rambo2]

Maybe a trade down with a team in the late 20s. I want the extra 3rd badly.

The Packers and the Chiefs would be good candidates.

 

[The Realist]

I would be tempted to consider Tyler Smith.

He as power like Green and Zion to play OG but has legit NFL LT athletic ability.

The issue that he basically has no technique. He just lines up and plays when the ball is snapped.
- Small college and young OL coach might have been part of the lack of technique issue.
- Larry Allen had no technique in college and didn't really have much technique in the NFL. He didn't it.

If Smith had played OG only in college, even with the technique issues, he would likely be rated higher because most of his negative plays were at LT.

I would like to know if the Cowboys believe that Zion is a legit option at OC.

Green is not an OT in the NFL regardless of what he did in college.

I would definitely consider a trade down if that option is available.
- I just don't see a huge difference in the options at #24 as compared to the next 10 to 15 picks.

Tyler Smith 16 penalties last year.

 

[CowboyoWales]

Pauline said both the Jets/Jax like him but they don’t expect him to be there in the top of rd 2

It's the classic Mock Draft (once the elite can't miss prospects are off the board). Identify the team's need, find a player that fits that need, (in Smiths case a potential Guard AND/or development Tackle) and then justify it by claiming that he's be gone before the team picks again.

Smith appears a reach at 24, especially as there's no rumor that we're even how interested in him.

 

[Cowboyny]

It's the classic Mock Draft (once the elite can't miss prospects are off the board). Identify the team's need, find a player that fits that need, (in Smiths case a potential Guard AND/or development Tackle) and then justify it by claiming that he's be gone before the team picks again.

Smith appears a reach at 24, especially as there's no rumor that we're even how interested in him.

The only thing I have heard was on the draft show at the combine where Kyle, David and Dane were discussing him being the Cowboy pick at 56.

 

[Cowboyny]

They could also take the Iowa center in the 1st and take the Virginia Tech guard in the 2nd. How would you like that?

Too many needs to use both of their top picks for the OL/ Could see 1 early and perhaps 1 on day 3.

 

[CowboyoWales]

The only thing I have heard was on the draft show at the combine where Kyle, David and Dane were discussing him being the Cowboy pick at 56.

Which I think would be a great pick, especially as he's got the potential as swing T as well as Guard.....but 24?

 

[Cowboyny]

Which I think would be a great pick, especially as he's got the potential as swing T as well as Guard.....but 24?

I agree, you want to take a developmental Tackle at 56, no issue at all. Even if you trade back and take him in the 40's, but not at 24.

 

[Cowboyny]

The few big boards that are I trust have Smith in that 40-60 range. Have zero issue using our 2nd rd pick, but not at 24 where a few media scouts have forecasted him.

 

[morasp]

Green grades out higher than Martin did and higher than the highest guard last year Alija Vera-Tucker who the Jets picked at 14. He's the 17th highest rated player in the draft and we would be lucky if he was there.

Kenyon Green Draft and Combine Prospect Profile | NFL.com

Zack Martin Draft and Combine Prospect Profile | NFL.com

 

[xwalker]

Tyler Smith 16 penalties last year.

Yes, that is the issue that likely pushes him to the 2nd round.

If he had played OG only, I think the penalties would have been far less.

In the games that I watched he didn't really 'need' to commit those penalties in the way that Connor Williams needed to commit penalties to prevent getting beat.
- Tyler Smith would often just bear hug defenders for no reason.
- His college OL coach was reportedly very young and inexperienced.

 

[Cowboyny]

Green grades out higher than Martin did and higher than the highest guard last year Alija Vera-Tucker who the Jets picked at 14. He's the 17th highest rated player in the draft and we would be lucky if he was there.

Kenyon Green Draft and Combine Prospect Profile | NFL.com

Zack Martin Draft and Combine Prospect Profile | NFL.com

Green is clearly an elite prospect at his position and there isn't a guarantee he will even be on the board at 24.

 

[The Realist]

Yes, that is the issue that likely pushes him to the 2nd round.

If he had played OG only, I think the penalties would have been far less.

In the games that I watched he didn't really 'need' to commit those penalties in the way that Connor Williams needed to commit penalties to prevent getting beat.
- Tyler Smith would often just bear hug defenders for no reason.
- His college OL coach was reportedly very young and inexperienced.

He has all the physical traits you would want. Too much risk for me in 1-2 considering who else should/might be on the board. I would take Rhyan, Ingram over him for sure.

 

[Cowboyny]

Yes, that is the issue that likely pushes him to the 2nd round.

If he had played OG only, I think the penalties would have been far less.

In the games that I watched he didn't really 'need' to commit those penalties in the way that Connor Williams needed to commit penalties to prevent getting beat.
- Tyler Smith would often just bear hug defenders for no reason.
- His college OL coach was reportedly very young and inexperienced.

You see Green use the same technique that has led him to committing a high amount of penalties as well. It was more pronounced when he was starting at Tackle. The difference between the two lineman, Green knows how to use power, footwork and technique in the run game.