The "if we take a" series. DE/ED

[J-man]

Now that we've had time to look at these guys more, I want to hear everyone's position rankings. So I'm going to try and post a position we could possibly take at 12, every couple of days leading up to the draft.
The prepose being to discuss who you would want to draft over the other players at the same position and why?

exp. If we take a RB at 12.. if we take a DT at 12... if we take a WR...get it?
So to start us off I chose DE/ED

If we take an DE/ED at 12, who do you prefer it it and why?

For me the order is A Carter, J Walker, S Stewart, J Peirce, M Williams and Green

Carter is the best athlete at edge this year. His skill set is the closest to Parsons and the duo would be incredible together.
Walker is a very close second to Carter IMHO. He has the speed, bend, instincts and cover skills to be a great player.
Stewart has a good floor and what could be a super high ceiling. He could turn into a dominate force on the D-line.
Peirce is a very skilled DE who would give us a good player opposite MP. He needs to get stronger inside though.
Williams He has the ability to be great but leaves me feeling unfulfilled. Great run defender though.
Green seems to be a pass rush freak but can he set an edge? And small school guys scare me this high.

 

[cnuball21]

I think Williams is the most realistic option at 12 that makes sense for what we need in a bigger bodied LDE that is a stud agains the run as has rush upside.

I love Pearce and Green but there are apparently off the field issues.

Stewart’s production profile is just too low for me at 12.

 

[Mr_437]

You have Mykel and Shemar in that area. Both guys are LDEs which shouldn't be considered a Money 5 because this position isn't a high sack spot and more of a stop the run position.

Anyway, Shemar is the guy the Cowboys should take over Mykel. Shemar is bigger, faster, more explosive, and has more upside. The Cowboys having another DE opposite Parsons, for the next 4 years, that has crazy athleticism and a high motor is a good pairing. Stewart has a great bull rush, and his lack of production issue is due to his lack of hand fighting and ability to disengage...all very coachable.

 

[J-man]

I think Williams is the most realistic option at 12 that makes sense for what we need in a bigger bodied LDE that is a stud agains the run as has rush upside.

I love Pearce and Green but there are apparently off the field issues.

Stewart’s production profile is just too low for me at 12.

We all know Carter isn't getting to 12, but I assume you don't think Walker gets there either?
Would Peirce's "supposed" off field issues keep you drafting him?
Stewart could end up being the best of the bunch, do you think his issues are coachable?
Do you think Williams is a better player than any of these three?

 

[darthseinfeld]

I think Williams is the most realistic option at 12 that makes sense for what we need in a bigger bodied LDE that is a stud agains the run as has rush upside.

I love Pearce and Green but there are apparently off the field issues.

Stewart’s production profile is just too low for me at 12.

I think Stewart is a good football player. Just not a good rusher right now. Id be ok with Stewart in this draft because its pretty weak, and if you can unlock his pass rush potential he could be a monster. Other years, I would pass at 12. Stewart kind of illustrates the misfortune of landing a high pick in a weak draft for us

 

[Hawkeye0202]

I love Pearce and Green but there are apparently off the field issues.

I have a feeling many teams will regret passing on both of these players. Member Jaden Carter also had huge character concerns.

 

[cnuball21]

We all know Carter isn't getting to 12, but I assume you don't think Walker gets there either?
Would Peirce's "supposed" off field issues keep you drafting him?
Stewart could end up being the best of the bunch, do you think his issues are coachable?
Do you think Williams is a better player than any of these three?

I want nothing to do with Walker. He’s one guy that is ranked high that I just don’t get. Too small to be an every down Edge and not good off the ball. Way too much risk at 12 for me.

For Pearce - if they are as bad as what some of the analysts have referenced yes.

Stewart - maybe, but again not taking that risk at 12.

If we’re talking about Williams / Pearce / Stewart I think his ceiling is probably just as high as any of them as a complete DE. He’s just the safest - apparently super high character dude, works hard, loves football and zero off the field concerns.

 

[cnuball21]

I have a feeling many teams will regret passing on both of these players. Member Jaden Carter also had huge character concerns.

Wasn’t Carter just doing reckless driving?

And for every character concern player that pans out there’s like 10 that don’t. We’re not the Eagles - we can’t take that risk.

 

[Hawkeye0202]

Wasn’t Carter just doing reckless driving?

And for every character concern player that pans out there’s like 10 that don’t. We’re not the Eagles - we can’t take that risk.

Oh please......... what risk??????
Especially the risk that separates their value by only 7-8 spots. If it was serious enough to drop them a round or two, then maybe but but just a few spots? But say I'm dropping X player a few spots coz character concerns ........ IMO

 

[cnuball21]

Oh please......... what risk??????
Especially the risk that separates their value by only 7-8 spots. If it was serious enough to drop them a round or two, then maybe but but just a few spots? But say I'm dropping X player a few spots coz character concerns ........ IMO

If off the field concerns don’t impact how you evaluate a player at all…kudos to you.

 

[Hawkeye0202]

If off the field concerns don’t impact how you evaluate a player at all…kudos to you.

I never said concerns "don't impact" ......... it's how much and how much the difference is from one round or player to the next. You suggested you don't "risk" drafting a player a few spots earlier over character concerns.

 

[cnuball21]

I never said concerns "don't impact" ......... it's how much and how much the difference is from one round or player to the next. You suggested you don't "risk" drafting a player a few spots earlier over character concerns.

Absolutely correct. If the off the field concerns are legit for Green / Pearce I’m. it taking them in the 1st and maybe not even the 2nd. The 1st 2 rounds are premium picks and you’re looking to remove risks.

Randy Gregory had all pro potential as a prospect…he feel due to off the field concerns and never realized his potential. Bossman Fat also had very high end traits to be a starter in the league and he fizzled out very quickly.

 

[Dalmations202]

I think Carter will be gone before 12.
MWilliams, Pierce, Green -- Good players some team might fall in love with and trade up to get, but if it were me Dallas wouldn't take them at 12.

JWalker -- Boom or Bust depending on DC. I can't imagine the trouble OC would have if JWalker and MParsons come off the edges in a 3-4; or even one playing DE/DL and one playing Mike in a 4-3 - with the Dallas DC able to stack them and bring/cover while confusing QB's as to who is playing what position. With that said, I don't know if the Dallas DC has the ability to get that creative and still get the most out of both of them. They could also provide rest for each other.

SStewart -- I am a huge Aggie fan. He has the ability to be a Myles Garrett, or a total bust. I suspect he will be a Jim Jeffcoat or Greg Ellis type player in the long run after watching him play -- good enough to start and to make a pro bowl or two, but not a All Pro stud. He would be my pick @12 if I can't trade down, Jeanty and Graham and JWalker already drafted. I like the player, but he is not on my "run to the podium, don't take trade calls" list.

 

[xwalker]

Now that we've had time to look at these guys more, I want to hear everyone's position rankings. So I'm going to try and post a position we could possibly take at 12, every couple of days leading up to the draft.
The prepose being to discuss who you would want to draft over the other players at the same position and why?

exp. If we take a RB at 12.. if we take a DT at 12... if we take a WR...get it?
So to start us off I chose DE/ED

If we take an DE/ED at 12, who do you prefer it it and why?

For me the order is A Carter, J Walker, S Stewart, J Peirce, M Williams and Green

Carter is the best athlete at edge this year. His skill set is the closest to Parsons and the duo would be incredible together.
Walker is a very close second to Carter IMHO. He has the speed, bend, instincts and cover skills to be a great player.
Stewart has a good floor and what could be a super high ceiling. He could turn into a dominate force on the D-line.
Peirce is a very skilled DE who would give us a good player opposite MP. He needs to get stronger inside though.
Williams He has the ability to be great but leaves me feeling unfulfilled. Great run defender though.
Green seems to be a pass rush freak but can he set an edge? And small school guys scare me this high.

Keep in mind that Parsons is a Weak-Side type DE. The opposite side starting DE is normally a Strong-Side type.

If the draft a 250 pound DE early, then one of them needs to play LB on run downs then both play DE on obvious passing downs.

Obviously don't skip an Uber elite talent for this reason, but it's probably not the target goal to get a smallish DE.

Personally, I like how they used Parsons his rookie season with most of his "starts" at LB.

 

[TheDank]

Talent wise it's Green for me. He has the pass rush arsenal and I think he holds up against the run well enough. He's great at his lower level of competition but the size in the NFL is a concern. For what it's worth he converts speed to power very well for setting an edge and is slippery to cut off those outside runs that have killed us.

The off field probably has him off my board, but if you can live with it he's my guy at Edge.

Otherwise I guess I'd take a shot at developing Shemar Stewart and hope he's Danielle Hunter and not Vernon Gholston.

Honestly I don't love this edge class, which surprises me because on initial glance coming into the offseason I thought it would be a great class.

 

[TheDank]

Keep in mind that Parsons is a Weak-Side type DE. The opposite side starting DE is normally a Strong-Side type.

If the draft a 250 pound DE early, then one of them needs to play LB on run downs then both play DE on obvious passing downs.

Obviously don't skip an Uber elite talent for this reason, but it's probably not the target goal to get a smallish DE.

Personally, I like how they used Parsons his rookie season with most of his "starts" at LB.

We also rest Micah on early downs a lot. Could be nice to have someone with some juice on the weakside in those situations as well. I think we can find the snaps for a weak side edge one way or another.

 

[beware_d-ware]

Purely based on tape, I'd rank it as

-Carter
-Pearce
-Green
-Williams
-Stewart
-Walker

Carter's a stud, but drafting him is a pipe dream, and after him it gets complicated. They're all very talented but very flawed prospects.

Green's off-field issues are confirmed - he's caught two separate sexual harassment charges at two separate schools, so that's no bueno. Pearce's are more of the rumor mill variety, and normally I ignore those, but the stories about him are so consistent and so similar that I am believing the smoke there. He doesn't want to do what coaches tell him to.

I hate Stewart's lack of production, but I'm also a Texas A&M fan and I know that squandering talent is what that program does best. It would be the least surprising thing ever if Jimbo Fisher and Elko signed a Myles Garrett level athlete only to misuse him, and Stewart goes on to have a 100 sack NFL career. If you pick Stewart top 12, you're basically gambling that Jimbo is an idiot, and that's not a bad bet to place.

Jalon Walker is one guy I just can't understand. Yes, he tore Kelvin Banks a new one, and that's great tape. But what else has he done? He can cover, but not well enough to play full time LB, and he can speed rush, but not as well as the guys I ranked in front of him here. For some certain defenses, that 70% rush, 30% cover blend would be perfect. But for all the talk about "chess pieces", not a lot of defenses use them, and most teams just rush their DEs on every passing down. So I think Walker is a pretty scheme-specific type of guy.

 

[morasp]

I don't know if I would take him at 12 but Donovan Ezeiruaku from Boston College would be a great pick for the Cowboys and could go in the first round.

Why: Unlike a lot of these guys he's got both the production 87 and athletic 84 scores.

80 tackles
20.5 TFLs
16.5 sacks

In his summary Lance said "Ezeiruaku’s play demeanor, skill and athletic talent are the underpinnings of a productive starter with three-down value."

By the way, I like the idea, which position is up next?

 

[exciter]

I have a feeling many teams will regret passing on both of these players. Member Jaden Carter also had huge character concerns.

Carter still went in top 10!
Pearce shows signs of maybe being bi-polar…why you’re seeing him fall into the 2nd round in some drafts.
Green has vibes of being a one year wonder…teams don’t seem to know where to put him!

 

[cnuball21]

I don't know if I would take him at 12 but Donovan Ezeiruaku from Boston College would be a great pick for the Cowboys and could go in the first round.

Why: Unlike a lot of these guys he's got both the production 87 and athletic 84 scores.

80 tackles
20.5 TFLs
16.5 sacks

In his summary Lance said "Ezeiruaku’s play demeanor, skill and athletic talent are the underpinnings of a productive starter with three-down value."

By the way, I like the idea, which position is up next?

Excellent round 2 target but probably taken before 44.