The Little Things In Denver (Dallas Comments)

[bayeslife]

HUH?

what is wrong with the fans of this team? You have to be kidding with this nonsense.

I don't get it either. I remember Ware constantly being put down for not being a thug like Harrison and that was the reason why we didn't win

 

[Zimmy Lives]

Entertaining read but nothing new. In my day (80s - high school and college) we used to refer to information gathering film study (on the opponent) as skull sessions.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

WEll it does and it's not just me saying it.. Believe what you want though.

It's not a matter of belief. You have been demonstrated to not be able to tell what plays were run beyond simple run/pass calls in the past. I have tried to talk to you about route combinations and blocking assignments/tactics before when you make these types of claims and gotten nothing.

You of course can believe what you want but that is besides the point.

 

[Stash]

why would the coaches say you cant go off tendencies? what would be their reasoning? anyone? curious.

tendencies could be wrong? there

It fits the M.O. of a coaching staff that's far too often been accused of a lack of innovation, creativity, or the ability to adjust.

I remember reading in the past that the Cowboys didn't want their defensive linemen to utilize the spin move in their pass rush for some idiotic reason, forget that it works for the rest of the league and that guys like Dwight Freeney have made a Hall of Fame career by using it, we're not using it in Dallas.

Some coaches - like Belicheck - look for each and every advantage over the opponent they can find. Belicheck takes it so far as to call it cheating, but he's always one step ahead of the competition, and the league.

I've listened to guys like Chris Mattura on Sirius/XM radio explain what they were hired to look for and have made careers out of doing, scouting tendencies and using the information to gain any advantage that they could.

 

[erod]

You're embarrassing yourself.

You mean both of those signature plays? Nobody remembers the others.

I watched too many backup tackles dominate him in too many games to elevate him like the stat freaks do. He was king of the garbage time numbers in Dallas.

 

[Ranching]

Interesting article on SI/MMQ, somewhat Cowboys related at least from Ware and Talib's comments:

Wed Oct. 26, 2016
The Little Things in Denver


NFL teams always are on the hunt for any advantage they can gain. Denver feels like it found one in dedicating two full-time coaches to studying the tells of opposing players. The Broncos believe it’s working

by Robert Klemko

“When the center points, or the quarterback says something, they’re telling you everything, so why not use it?” Ware says incredulously. “Every team should do it; the Dallas coaches would say, ‘You can't go off of somebody’s tendencies.’ And I would say, ‘Well, this guy on the other team has been doing this one thing for nine years and he hasn’t stopped doing it.’

“I had that argument with coaches. In the end, I said okay, I guess I’ll be the only one to use it then.”

Then Ware signed with the Broncos in 2014, and then the team hired coach Gary Kubiak in 2015. Kubiak and Ware could not have been more aligned in their thinking. Kubiak hired two coaching interns that year—ex-Hawaii assistant Philip Rauscher and former Bills quality control coach Thaddeus Bogardus. Their job? Tendencies. But not just the broad offensive and defensive tendencies being coached everywhere. Rauscher and Bogardus have a special mandate to also study the bad habits of opposing players, and both coaches have the unique privilege of briefing the offense and the defense, respectively, on those habits.

Their current titles are nondescript and imply anonymity: “Coaching assistant,” or what most teams describe as a quality control coaches. Technically, they’re low men on the totem pole, but they might be the two most relied-upon men in their roles in the league. The defensive players grin at the mention of Bogardus, who earned his MBA from Ball State in 2012. “Thad does everything,” says outside linebacker Shaq Barrett. “He practically prepares us to go. Everything that you need to know, Thad knows.” Offensive players have a nickname for Rauscher, a former UCLA tight end: “KGB.”

Bogardus and Rauscher pore over hours and hours of film, and not just the silent, All-22 copies of games; they’ll break down the television broadcast, hoping an on-field microphone catches an audible call or a piece of defensive communication they can then catalog and use to discern patterns. They do the same with hand signals shared between quarterback and wide receiver or cornerback and safety. Then both coaches prepare briefings for position coaches and lead a weekly meeting with the offense and defense to point out the smallest bad habits.

[CUT]

To drive the point home, the two coaches will then recruit a scout team player to play the weak link. Practice squad tackle Justin Murray might spend any given week dropping his outside foot back just a few inches further when it’s a pass play, so that everyone on defense can get familiar with the habit. Then players get comfortable spotting the tell and relaying it to the rest of the defense. That’s why you’ll see Ware on Sundays turning to Aqib Talib and banging his fists together to signify run, or quickly shooting a hand to the sky to show pass. You’ll see it most often in the second half of games, when fatigue sets in and bad habits manifest.

“You’ve got to pay attention to it and be patient,” Ware says. “I feel like studying this stuff is just starting to be a big thing in the league.”

One man in the locker room didn’t see what the big deal was. Of course, cornerback Aqib Talib said, the Broncos put a lot of emphasis on player tendencies, just like he’d done at his previous stop ... in New England with Bill Belichick.

Well, Aqib, your teammate DeMarcus said they didn’t do that sort of thing while he was in Dallas.

“Well that’s why they suck on defense,” Talib concluded. “They’re not getting that little extra stuff they need.”

----

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/10/26/denver-broncos-coaching-player-tendencies-nfl

Talib is just shooting from the hip. Get it?

 

[Risen Star]

They are better than us on defense.

You got any meaningful stats to back that up, bucko?

 

[dfense]

Ware says that like he wasn't allowed to notice those things. Why wouldn't he just act on it anyways?

Talib, might as well shoot his mouth off. At least it's not his leg.

 

[Kevinicus]

I notice Parcells name was not added to your list

Well, at first I was just mentioning the defensive guys (While Wade was HC he was still the main guy in charge of the D), but added Garrett because this has been a point of criticism for some time with him. He could also be referring to Parcells, but I doubt it. Parcells seemed like a stickler for the details.

 

[T-RO]

Rod Marinelli was ware's direct coach in 2013. He was the defensive line coach and raved about ware.

OK. I had forgotten Rod has been here as long as he has. Thanks for the info.

 

[Doomsday]

Going off tendencies alone can be extremely dangerous, just ask the Packers.

Dallas hadn't thrown the ball with Lucky in the game once the entire season. In the 4th quarter with 7 or so minutes left, Dallas had a third and 1.

They put Lucky in the game, put him in motion and none of the Packers covered him, Dak hits him for a big play. Would of been a TD with a better throw. Game Over!

 

[Idgit]

I notice Parcells name was not added to your list

Parcels was the guy I immediately thought of for this, too. It sounds like the sort of old-school thing he'd believe in. And kind of hard to fault Zimmer or Phillips in this context. Kiffin was not awake or coherent enough in Dallas to argue with anybody about anything other than stool softeners. Ryan, maybe, though he was too busy designing his multiple fronts to care all that much about people pointing or telling anything. Garrett?....well, c'mon, man. Let's at least try a bit over here.

 

[Doomsday101]

I don't know it is a vague comment considering he had different coaches both HC and DC during his time in Dallas but says nothing of when this was happening.

 

[Idgit]

I don't get it either. I remember Ware constantly being put down for not being a thug like Harrison and that was the reason why we didn't win

Ware didn't do anything really, really bad, like cut his finger making soup during a bye week or have a friend wear baggy pants at a mall or anything, but he was the kind of unproductive malcontent we're just better off not having on the roster, all the same. If a guy's getting beat by rookies and all his big plays come when it doesn't matter, I mean, what's the point of having him at all?

 

[Luther]

My response would be why doesn't Denver's defensive players have any nicknames? Just how good could they be?

Very good.

34,205 messages ... and finally one that made me smile.

 

[Common Sense]

“When the center points, or the quarterback says something, they’re telling you everything, so why not use it?” Ware says incredulously. “Every team should do it; the Dallas coaches would say, ‘You can't go off of somebody’s tendencies.’ And I would say, ‘Well, this guy on the other team has been doing this one thing for nine years and he hasn’t stopped doing it.’

“I had that argument with coaches. In the end, I said okay, I guess I’ll be the only one to use it then.”

I think it's obvious which staff he's referring to. Why would he specifically say a guy has been doing something for nine years if he hadn't been going up against him for that long? Ware's last year here was his ninth season. That would seem to indict either Kiffin or Marinelli.

 

[yimyammer]

Dallas coaches would say, ‘You can't go off of somebody’s tendencies.’ And I would say, ‘Well, this guy on the other team has been doing this one thing for nine years and he hasn’t stopped doing it.’

“I had that argument with coaches. In the end, I said okay, I guess I’ll be the only one to use it then.”

Dismissive arrogance, gotta love it.

Makes sense, like its said, a fish rots from the head down

 

[rynochop]

3 pages in and I'm still trying to figure out who sucks, I guess I'll just go with Jerry

 

[tyke1doe]

I don't know why he got shot while in Dallas club?

Maybe he couldn't read the signs that he was about to pull the trigger on himself.

 

[tyke1doe]

In coaching, details matter. If I had a player, especially a great one like Ware calling this out, I don't understand why anyone would shut him down.

Then again, why wouldn't Ware share this with the rest of his teammates even if the coaches shut him down?