Cowboy Junkie
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stasheroo said:
I agree we are close now and it is time to look at the future as beeing now and we still have holes to fill so we cant stock pile for next year
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I agree we are close now and it is time to look at the future as beeing now and we still have holes to fill so we cant stock pile for next year
jterrell
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The Texans and Jets had A drafts as they should selecting so high.
I had the Rams and came away with a solid haul for my purposes: overhauling the defense with more speed.
17-Ernie Sims-Starting OLB. Will make a LB corps of Pina, Witherspoon, Sims and allow Coakley to eb the top backup at both olb positions.
46 Kelly Jennings- CB. Immediately competes for a starting position. Smallish CB but outstanding speed for the turf.
51 Claude Wroten-DT Big 300 pound guy with good rushing skills. A lot like a little heavier Marcus Spears. Can be a 3rd down DT resting Jimmy Kennedy as well as replacing Glover on some short yardage plays. 3 Dt rotations are quite popular nowadays. Rams allowed 2 former high draft picks at DT to walk this off-season so they'll add someone here.
77 Ray Edwards DE-He-ll be in the mix right away for major playing time. He's a pass rusher and could lead to a separation next season with oft-troubled Leonard Little.
I tried to move back up to 13 and take Michael Huff but fell short though the offers were basically the same.
I had the Rams and came away with a solid haul for my purposes: overhauling the defense with more speed.
17-Ernie Sims-Starting OLB. Will make a LB corps of Pina, Witherspoon, Sims and allow Coakley to eb the top backup at both olb positions.
46 Kelly Jennings- CB. Immediately competes for a starting position. Smallish CB but outstanding speed for the turf.
51 Claude Wroten-DT Big 300 pound guy with good rushing skills. A lot like a little heavier Marcus Spears. Can be a 3rd down DT resting Jimmy Kennedy as well as replacing Glover on some short yardage plays. 3 Dt rotations are quite popular nowadays. Rams allowed 2 former high draft picks at DT to walk this off-season so they'll add someone here.
77 Ray Edwards DE-He-ll be in the mix right away for major playing time. He's a pass rusher and could lead to a separation next season with oft-troubled Leonard Little.
I tried to move back up to 13 and take Michael Huff but fell short though the offers were basically the same.
junk
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stasheroo said:
I look at it as overall value. If you trade away your first next year and a bunch of picks this year to land one guy, is it worth it? The Patriots have been in a "win now" mode for awhile, yet they continue to stockpile picks. The draft is hit or miss, so I think the best way to succeed is to stockpile picks.
Everyone wants to say that the value between 18-32 is about equal, but then when you deal back and get something for it, everyone complains. :laugh2:
If I had stayed put and drafted Carpenter, Colledge and Harper, people would be complaining as well.
Its easy to nitpick.
Stash
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junk said:
How do you stockpile picks that don't exist?
How does it make sense to trade down for imaginary picks for next year?
That seems easy to nitpick., but as was said earlier, picking for the Cowboys on a Cowboys' board is a tough thing to do.....
Cowboy Junkie
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junk said:I didn't give up a single pick this year and I gained a pick next year.
True but I think the drop off after about pick 19 is great..
A blue chipper was still available at 18 and I think we could use a blue chipper this year to help get us to the promised land...Of course if that first rounder would turn into a top ten pick next year than that may have been worth it.
ABQCOWBOY
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While researching the Bengals, I looked at a couple of different things. The Bengals were very good offensively last season. They passed the ball well and they ran the ball effectively. The one position on Offense that I felt they needed to improve was TE. I felt that Palmer needed a good young TE to be able to develope with.
Defensively, Cincy was not good at all IMO. There run defense was average to below average and there pass defense was among the very worst in the NFL. In fact, they were 20th against the run (not great) but 26th (even worse) against the pass. Clearly, this team needs to improve on the defensive side of the ball.
I also looked at FA aquisitions and who they have drafted in the last few seasons. One of the key FAs the Bengals signed this year was Sam Adams. DT was probably the biggest need this team had and bringing in Adams will help that position out tremendously. Defensively, this team had trouble generating pressure and covering receivers. In order to improve, they desperatly needed to improve these areas.
In the last few drafts, the Bengals have drafted well with there top picks but this is a team that has holes.
2005:
Pollack LB and Thurman LB, to go with Brian Simmons, a very talented OLB himself. The Bengals also drafted WR Chris Henry to compliment Chad Johnson, Kelly Washington and Houshmandzadeh. This team is very solid all along the OL with Willie Anderson, Bobbie Williams, Rich Braham, Eric Steinbach and Levi Jones but has very little at TE> The starters are Reggie Kelly (15 catches, 90 yardes, 1 TD in 15 games) and Tony Stewart (4 catches, 26 yards and 0 TDs in 14 games).
2004:
Chris Perry RB, Keiwan Ratliff CB, Madieu Williams DB, Caleb Miller LB, Landon Johnson LB and Mathias Askew DT. Chris Perry is the franchise back, Keiwan Ratliff is developing behind Deltha O'Neal but O'Neal is very long in the tooth and will likely be replaced in the near future. Williams is not on the active roster while Miller, Johnson and Landon are excellent depth behind a very strong starting LB crew. Askew is a very talented, very raw, very young player that can develope into a quality starter but at this point, he's rotational. Across the front four, the Bengals are in pretty good shape with Justin Smith at one DE, Sam Adams at DT, John Thornton/Shaun Smith at the other DT and Robert Geathers/Duane Clemons at the other DE spot. In the secondary, you have O'Neal, and Ratliff but not much else. You have Ohalete at SS who is decent in run support but not great in coverage and Kaesviharn at free who is terrible in coverage IMO. Tory James, going into his 11th season, is OK at the other Corner but his too is not what he used to be and will likely be gone soon. He is backed up by Rashad Bauman who really does not impress me at all.
IMO, the needs for this team were a young, everydown TE to help there young QB, a quality FS, another good CB and another DL who can complete the rotation.
In this draft, I elected to trade down and pick up picks as I felt as if this team was just a few positions away from being a superbowl quality team. This draft was deep in areas of need and I felt as if I could get starting quality talent in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.
Ko Simpson 6'2 201 lbs. (2nd rd 41st player taken) is a player that I thought could be a 1st round selection. I feel has the physical capability to be a 4 down FS. With Simpson, this will allow this defense to match up with other teams in 3 WR sets without substitutions. This player has the speed, quickness and hips to play CB but the size to be a prototypical FS.
Dominick Byrd 6'3 260 lbs. (2nd rd 55th player taken) is a big time receiving TE with excellent size, speed/quickness for the position. He also has excellent technique in blocking schemes. Byrd is an everydown TE. He has proven his ability in big games and comes from a big time program. Byrd is also the best suited TE in this draft to come in a produce immediatly because of the offense he played in at USC. He's a winner.
Cedric Griffin 6'2 193 lbs. (3rd rd 72 player taken) is a DB that can play FS or CB. His athletic ability is on par with Huff and is still learning to play CB. He will be able to come in and initially get time in nickle and back up James. He may even start before the year is out. He has that kind of talent. Because Ko Simpson is such an excellent tackler, it is also possible to move him to SS as his body gets stronger, if the Bengals wish and have Griffin play FS. Griffin is just a physically talented player who's best football is in front of him. A player that could end up being an excellent CB or a prototypical FS.
Dusty Dvoracek 6'3 298 lbs. ( 3rd rd 91st player taken) is likely to be a strong side DE in the NFL. He has an excellent size/speed ratios. In fact, he grades out at 8 out of 10 in Size/Speed/Strength/Altheticisam catagories. He has a powerful upper body and lower body but a thin waist. Whistle to whistle player that does not quite on plays. Because he can play either 3 technique DT or a Strong Side DE, with pass rushing ability, he's going to be able to come in and provide rotational support at either position. With the Bengals existing DLs, he is a great fit with the right attitude to help this team succeed. He's not a guy that will take plays off or show up on America's Most Wanted. He's going to fit in with Lewis extremely well and Lewis will make him a great player. With the ability the Bengals already have at LB, this player will be exactly what this defense needs.
Defensively, Cincy was not good at all IMO. There run defense was average to below average and there pass defense was among the very worst in the NFL. In fact, they were 20th against the run (not great) but 26th (even worse) against the pass. Clearly, this team needs to improve on the defensive side of the ball.
I also looked at FA aquisitions and who they have drafted in the last few seasons. One of the key FAs the Bengals signed this year was Sam Adams. DT was probably the biggest need this team had and bringing in Adams will help that position out tremendously. Defensively, this team had trouble generating pressure and covering receivers. In order to improve, they desperatly needed to improve these areas.
In the last few drafts, the Bengals have drafted well with there top picks but this is a team that has holes.
2005:
Pollack LB and Thurman LB, to go with Brian Simmons, a very talented OLB himself. The Bengals also drafted WR Chris Henry to compliment Chad Johnson, Kelly Washington and Houshmandzadeh. This team is very solid all along the OL with Willie Anderson, Bobbie Williams, Rich Braham, Eric Steinbach and Levi Jones but has very little at TE> The starters are Reggie Kelly (15 catches, 90 yardes, 1 TD in 15 games) and Tony Stewart (4 catches, 26 yards and 0 TDs in 14 games).
2004:
Chris Perry RB, Keiwan Ratliff CB, Madieu Williams DB, Caleb Miller LB, Landon Johnson LB and Mathias Askew DT. Chris Perry is the franchise back, Keiwan Ratliff is developing behind Deltha O'Neal but O'Neal is very long in the tooth and will likely be replaced in the near future. Williams is not on the active roster while Miller, Johnson and Landon are excellent depth behind a very strong starting LB crew. Askew is a very talented, very raw, very young player that can develope into a quality starter but at this point, he's rotational. Across the front four, the Bengals are in pretty good shape with Justin Smith at one DE, Sam Adams at DT, John Thornton/Shaun Smith at the other DT and Robert Geathers/Duane Clemons at the other DE spot. In the secondary, you have O'Neal, and Ratliff but not much else. You have Ohalete at SS who is decent in run support but not great in coverage and Kaesviharn at free who is terrible in coverage IMO. Tory James, going into his 11th season, is OK at the other Corner but his too is not what he used to be and will likely be gone soon. He is backed up by Rashad Bauman who really does not impress me at all.
IMO, the needs for this team were a young, everydown TE to help there young QB, a quality FS, another good CB and another DL who can complete the rotation.
In this draft, I elected to trade down and pick up picks as I felt as if this team was just a few positions away from being a superbowl quality team. This draft was deep in areas of need and I felt as if I could get starting quality talent in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.
Ko Simpson 6'2 201 lbs. (2nd rd 41st player taken) is a player that I thought could be a 1st round selection. I feel has the physical capability to be a 4 down FS. With Simpson, this will allow this defense to match up with other teams in 3 WR sets without substitutions. This player has the speed, quickness and hips to play CB but the size to be a prototypical FS.
Dominick Byrd 6'3 260 lbs. (2nd rd 55th player taken) is a big time receiving TE with excellent size, speed/quickness for the position. He also has excellent technique in blocking schemes. Byrd is an everydown TE. He has proven his ability in big games and comes from a big time program. Byrd is also the best suited TE in this draft to come in a produce immediatly because of the offense he played in at USC. He's a winner.
Cedric Griffin 6'2 193 lbs. (3rd rd 72 player taken) is a DB that can play FS or CB. His athletic ability is on par with Huff and is still learning to play CB. He will be able to come in and initially get time in nickle and back up James. He may even start before the year is out. He has that kind of talent. Because Ko Simpson is such an excellent tackler, it is also possible to move him to SS as his body gets stronger, if the Bengals wish and have Griffin play FS. Griffin is just a physically talented player who's best football is in front of him. A player that could end up being an excellent CB or a prototypical FS.
Dusty Dvoracek 6'3 298 lbs. ( 3rd rd 91st player taken) is likely to be a strong side DE in the NFL. He has an excellent size/speed ratios. In fact, he grades out at 8 out of 10 in Size/Speed/Strength/Altheticisam catagories. He has a powerful upper body and lower body but a thin waist. Whistle to whistle player that does not quite on plays. Because he can play either 3 technique DT or a Strong Side DE, with pass rushing ability, he's going to be able to come in and provide rotational support at either position. With the Bengals existing DLs, he is a great fit with the right attitude to help this team succeed. He's not a guy that will take plays off or show up on America's Most Wanted. He's going to fit in with Lewis extremely well and Lewis will make him a great player. With the ability the Bengals already have at LB, this player will be exactly what this defense needs.
Hostile
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I liked my Eagles Draft.
1. Chad Jackson, WR, Florida
2a. Joseph Addai, RB, LSU
2b. Rodrique Wright, DT, Texas
3 immediate impact players form big programs. Got a little heat for Wright in the 2nd but Jim Johnson's DL can make you famous. This guy will be bookended by Kearse and Kalu/Howard with Trotter behind him.
Cobra's draft for the Jets was the best of the day IMO.
1. Chad Jackson, WR, Florida
2a. Joseph Addai, RB, LSU
2b. Rodrique Wright, DT, Texas
3 immediate impact players form big programs. Got a little heat for Wright in the 2nd but Jim Johnson's DL can make you famous. This guy will be bookended by Kearse and Kalu/Howard with Trotter behind him.
Cobra's draft for the Jets was the best of the day IMO.
AbeBeta
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Respectfully Junk (truly so -- I think you are one of the top posters on this board) -- but if your scenario was what we did on draft day, I'd freaking puke.
Yes, we got an extra pick. But you can only spend so much time building for the future. I think the TO signing makes it clear what we are up to now.
Yes, we got an extra pick. But you can only spend so much time building for the future. I think the TO signing makes it clear what we are up to now.
ABQCOWBOY
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Junk,
I love your trade down and subsiquent selection of Winston. I think he is going to turn into a very good pro LT. I'm indifferent about your LB selection as I liked other players better but I don't hate it. I don't love the safety pick for the same reasons but I disagree with others. I love the fact that you picked up another 1st next year. I don't think we're a superbowl team next year. The year after could be a different story. We very well could be one player away or we could need a franchise QB next year. There's also a back at OU that I would kill to have. I agree with your approach and I think it's solid.
Good job IMO.
I love your trade down and subsiquent selection of Winston. I think he is going to turn into a very good pro LT. I'm indifferent about your LB selection as I liked other players better but I don't hate it. I don't love the safety pick for the same reasons but I disagree with others. I love the fact that you picked up another 1st next year. I don't think we're a superbowl team next year. The year after could be a different story. We very well could be one player away or we could need a franchise QB next year. There's also a back at OU that I would kill to have. I agree with your approach and I think it's solid.
Good job IMO.
jterrell
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Hostile said:
That was a good draft because it was for a team with a few major holes and you filled them without reaching. As a GM what else can you do?
I'd expect all 3 to play a good number of snaps as a rookie.
I would rather not see the eagles get a big back, the best WR in the class and a sleeping giant in Rod Wright who was rated a top 10 high schooler regardless of position and weighs in at over 300 pounds.
speedkilz88
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Juke, I don't like the picks for the Cowboys, but I do see that the board didn't give you much choice. It just fell the wrong way and would be the worst case senario for the real draft.
I can't understand Lawson to New Orleans since they run a 4-3 and have two standout ends already. Lawson isn't suited for LB in a 4-3 and is too light for everydown duty at end in a 4-3.
I can't understand Lawson to New Orleans since they run a 4-3 and have two standout ends already. Lawson isn't suited for LB in a 4-3 and is too light for everydown duty at end in a 4-3.
junk
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abersonc said:
Yeah, I've tried to defend it, but, frankly, I wasn't all that happy with it either. The extra 1 is nice.....everyone wants to blow it off, but it is smart to stockpile picks especially they are high rounders and you end up with more picks this year than you started with.
This mock draft made me realize that if Carpenter is there at 18, Dallas should take him and not look back. He isn't a reach there.
Thanks for the comments though. I appreciate it.
RESIN8
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Minny
1st
Brodrick Bunkley DT Florida St
The guy I targeted for this draft was still here at 11. I thought he would be gone at Buffalo's pick, but they went Ngata. I want an active tasmanian devil type and this guy fits the mold. I expect him to take over for Pat Williams who doesn't have many years left going on 34 y/o. He certainly can help in a DT rotation and blow up the middle like another great Viking of past (John Randle). The addition of Bunkley will keep Minnesota young group to mature together. Brodrick Bunkley and Kevin Williams would be a silly combo.
2nd
Roger Mcintosh LB Miami
The LB situation in Minny is kinda wishy washy. None of the previous guys drafted have made much of an impact. Although he's not DJ or Vilma, Mac is another solid LB product coming out of the U. I planned on bringing in some guys in the first day to compete for starting position at LB. THe guy could play either Mike or Sam LB.
3rd
Kellen Clemens QB Oregon
I was going to take him with the 95th pick in the draft, but the draft order was never changed from the Burleson deal w/ Seattle. I feel comfortable w/ picking Clemens w/ that 95th pick, here i just gave you an idea that I didn't forget the QB position. He reminds me of Brad Johnson in the fact that he's more of your blue collar type QB. Clemens was having a great year until he got injured. Probably would have had the best numbers in the Pac 10 and I don't think Oregon would have lost to Holiday with Clemens at the helm. I have Clemens rated the 4th best QB prospect.
In reality with the Clemens pic I was going LB again with Terna Nande from Miami(OH) at that pick. This guy is kinda like a poor mans Ernie Sims and i was willing to take the gamble that could warrant the type of athleticisim that Bunkley and Nande could bring to this defense. I also think that i could get a solid vet who is up for grabs right now in Donnie Edwards.
Draft would have looked like this
11th Brodrick Bunkley DT Florida St
48th Rodger Mcintosh LB Miami(Fla)
83rd Terna Nande OLB Miami(OH)
95th Kellen Clemens QB Oregon
1st
Brodrick Bunkley DT Florida St
The guy I targeted for this draft was still here at 11. I thought he would be gone at Buffalo's pick, but they went Ngata. I want an active tasmanian devil type and this guy fits the mold. I expect him to take over for Pat Williams who doesn't have many years left going on 34 y/o. He certainly can help in a DT rotation and blow up the middle like another great Viking of past (John Randle). The addition of Bunkley will keep Minnesota young group to mature together. Brodrick Bunkley and Kevin Williams would be a silly combo.
2nd
Roger Mcintosh LB Miami
The LB situation in Minny is kinda wishy washy. None of the previous guys drafted have made much of an impact. Although he's not DJ or Vilma, Mac is another solid LB product coming out of the U. I planned on bringing in some guys in the first day to compete for starting position at LB. THe guy could play either Mike or Sam LB.
3rd
Kellen Clemens QB Oregon
I was going to take him with the 95th pick in the draft, but the draft order was never changed from the Burleson deal w/ Seattle. I feel comfortable w/ picking Clemens w/ that 95th pick, here i just gave you an idea that I didn't forget the QB position. He reminds me of Brad Johnson in the fact that he's more of your blue collar type QB. Clemens was having a great year until he got injured. Probably would have had the best numbers in the Pac 10 and I don't think Oregon would have lost to Holiday with Clemens at the helm. I have Clemens rated the 4th best QB prospect.
In reality with the Clemens pic I was going LB again with Terna Nande from Miami(OH) at that pick. This guy is kinda like a poor mans Ernie Sims and i was willing to take the gamble that could warrant the type of athleticisim that Bunkley and Nande could bring to this defense. I also think that i could get a solid vet who is up for grabs right now in Donnie Edwards.
Draft would have looked like this
11th Brodrick Bunkley DT Florida St
48th Rodger Mcintosh LB Miami(Fla)
83rd Terna Nande OLB Miami(OH)
95th Kellen Clemens QB Oregon
Cowboy Junkie
leonargized
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speedkilz88 said:
Lawson is approx same size and speed as Urlacher and I think he could play the middle rather well and if not those ends in NewOrleans had very bad years last year...
I think Lawson is a freak and could not pass.
I would have rather had AJ , D'Brick or Mario but they were not available and I did trade out of the 2 pick but it enabled me to get a very good WR prospect...
Paniolo22
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Everyone is right. It was reall difficult to blow this draft for the Texans. I had a couple of trade offers for the #1 spot, and also a bunch from teams that wanted to move out of the 1st round for my 2nd and 3rd. The only guy I would have considered moving into the 1st for would have been Justice. Just as I was PMing someone for a trade up, Justice was off the board at 18. So I stayed put and ended up getting reall good value in McNeil. In the 3rd, Lutui was great value, and with the second pick, Watkins was a guy that wouldn't have lasted if I traded down a bit, so I nabbed him a little early IMO, but the draft dictated it. All in all, hard to screw up the #1 pick in every round, plus 4 in the first 3 rounds.
Good drafts - Buffalo, Green Bay, Houston New England, New York Giants, St.louis, San Francisco.
Good drafts - Buffalo, Green Bay, Houston
New England, New York Giants, St.louis, San Francisco.
speedkilz88
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Nobody is scouting Lawson as a MLB, he is a tweener, nothing like Urlacher. He just isn't a fit there.leonargized said: