The option in Hurns contract

xwalker

Well-Known Member
Messages
56,961
Reaction score
64,422
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
@Nightman has brilliantly determined that the 2019 option for Hurns was done for comp pick purposes.

They also put a 2019 option into the contract of some other players that signed contracts last year.

My understanding of the Hurns option:

The option on Hurns is not guaranteed and does not involve any extra money. It's basically identical to a normal contract from the players perspective in that the team could retain or cut the player because there was no guaranteed money in 2019 with or without the option in the contract.

The cap ramifications to the team are identical to a normal contract.

The difference between the option and a normal contract is that if they had declined the option they would potentially get a comp pick if Hurns signed a contract with another team that qualified for a comp pick.


Normally a player that is cut does not qualify for the team to get a comp pick. Only players whose contract ended while with the team and are not re-signed qualify to return a comp pick.

The one benefit to the player is that the team is more likely to make the decision to cut or keep the player before free agency starts instead of cutting the player long after the beginning of free agency which with a normal contract could be anytime up to 1 week before game 1. The team can still cut Hurns with the same cap ramifications as not picking up the option but they will not have a chance for a comp pick because they did exercise the option.

Note: One blogger site thinks declining the option would eliminate all dead-money for Hurns in 2019. That is false. Money actually paid to a player always counts against the cap at some point.

Hurns was paid a 2.5M signing bonus and only half of that counted against the 2018 cap. The other half will count against the 2019 cap with or without Hurns on the roster. If they had declined the option or if they cut him anytime before the season starts then that half of the signing bonus will be called dead-money. If he remains on the roster that same 1.25M will be called the 2019 portion of his pro-rated signing bonus.
 

xwalker

Well-Known Member
Messages
56,961
Reaction score
64,422
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
The Cowboys are putting some other things into contracts now that we have not seen much if at all in the past.

The option as explained above.

Weekly bonuses for being on the 46 man game day roster.

Other incentive type payments.

See the Tavon Austin and Christian Covington contracts.

Many of the incentives are not huge but I think they are trying to establish a trend such that these types of incentives are more readily accepted by agents/players in the future when the amounts become a more significant part of the contract.
 
Last edited:

HungryLion

Well-Known Member
Messages
26,632
Reaction score
60,577
Didn't the already pick up the option making this all moot?

They did pick up the option, but probably because they felt that Hurns wouldn’t get a contract or any value worthy of a comp pick elsewhere, and based on the fact that despite picking up the option, they could still cut him prior to week 1 and it have no difference affect on the cap.
 

xwalker

Well-Known Member
Messages
56,961
Reaction score
64,422
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
What is the decision date on the option?
A week or two ago.

They exercised the options for Hurns, Joe Thomas, Looney and 1 other player.

If I were a player or agent, I would want a roster bonus each year in March even if it was a fairly small amount. That would at least force the team to give some thought to keeping/cutting in March making it a little less likely that they would wait and make the cut later.
 

Verdict

Well-Known Member
Messages
26,012
Reaction score
20,206
@Nightman has brilliantly determined that the 2019 option for Hurns was done for comp pick purposes.

They also put a 2019 option into the contract of some other players that signed contracts last year.

My understanding of the Hurns option:

The option on Hurns is not guaranteed and does not involve any extra money. It's basically identical to a normal contract from the players perspective in that the team could retain or cut the player because there was no guaranteed money in 2019 with or without the option in the contract.

The cap ramifications to the team are identical to a normal contract.

The difference between the option and a normal contract is that if they had declined the option they would potentially get a comp pick if Hurns signed a contract with another team that qualified for a comp pick.


Normally a player that is cut does not qualify for the team to get a comp pick. Only players whose contract ended while with the team and are not re-signed qualify to return a comp pick.

The one benefit to the player is that the team is more likely to make the decision to cut or keep the player before free agency starts instead of cutting the player long after the beginning of free agency which with a normal contract could be anytime up to 1 week before game 1. The team can still cut Hurns with the same cap ramifications as not picking up the option but they will not have a chance for a comp pick because they did exercise the option.

Note: One blogger site thinks declining the option would eliminate all dead-money for Hurns in 2019. That is false. Money actually paid to a player always counts against the cap at some point.

Hurns was paid a 2.5M signing bonus and only half of that counted against the 2018 cap. The other half will count against the 2019 cap with or without Hurns on the roster. If they had declined the option or if they cut him anytime before the season starts then that half of the signing bonus will be called dead-money. If he remains on the roster that same 1.25M will be called the 2019 portion of his pro-rated signing bonus.

Thank you for that great, informative post. Also props to @Nightman for "doing the math" on why it exists.
 

QuincyCarterEra

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,324
Reaction score
10,736
@Nightman has brilliantly determined that the 2019 option for Hurns was done for comp pick purposes.

They also put a 2019 option into the contract of some other players that signed contracts last year.

My understanding of the Hurns option:

The option on Hurns is not guaranteed and does not involve any extra money. It's basically identical to a normal contract from the players perspective in that the team could retain or cut the player because there was no guaranteed money in 2019 with or without the option in the contract.

The cap ramifications to the team are identical to a normal contract.

The difference between the option and a normal contract is that if they had declined the option they would potentially get a comp pick if Hurns signed a contract with another team that qualified for a comp pick.


Normally a player that is cut does not qualify for the team to get a comp pick. Only players whose contract ended while with the team and are not re-signed qualify to return a comp pick.

The one benefit to the player is that the team is more likely to make the decision to cut or keep the player before free agency starts instead of cutting the player long after the beginning of free agency which with a normal contract could be anytime up to 1 week before game 1. The team can still cut Hurns with the same cap ramifications as not picking up the option but they will not have a chance for a comp pick because they did exercise the option.

Note: One blogger site thinks declining the option would eliminate all dead-money for Hurns in 2019. That is false. Money actually paid to a player always counts against the cap at some point.

Hurns was paid a 2.5M signing bonus and only half of that counted against the 2018 cap. The other half will count against the 2019 cap with or without Hurns on the roster. If they had declined the option or if they cut him anytime before the season starts then that half of the signing bonus will be called dead-money. If he remains on the roster that same 1.25M will be called the 2019 portion of his pro-rated signing bonus.

I had actually mentioned this exact hypothesis to Stash. We gave up the opportunity for a comp pick, but kept Hurns on our insurance and ability to use our medical team/facility. Like the Steelers are doing with Shazier.

This might actually work in our favor in making Hurns take a paycut. Say five days before the season we tell Hurns we want him to take a paycut or we will cut him. He would then be a free agent four days before the season and would lose $5M. I think he'd more than likely take a paycut insuring he stays on the team who just kept him while injured, instead of hope another team throws more than the minimum at him and then has to move and adjust to the new system.
 

CF74

Vet Min Plus
Messages
26,167
Reaction score
14,623
I had actually mentioned this exact hypothesis to Stash. We gave up the opportunity for a comp pick, but kept Hurns on our insurance and ability to use our medical team/facility. Like the Steelers are doing with Shazier.

This might actually work in our favor in making Hurns take a paycut. Say five days before the season we tell Hurns we want him to take a paycut or we will cut him. He would then be a free agent four days before the season and would lose $5M. I think he'd more than likely take a paycut insuring he stays on the team who just kept him while injured, instead of hope another team throws more than the minimum at him and then has to move and adjust to the new system.


Sounds good in theory but I would imagine he has some type of injury settlement clause in his contract...
 

QuincyCarterEra

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,324
Reaction score
10,736
Sounds good in theory but I would imagine he has some type of injury settlement clause in his contract...

This would be after he has recovered.

The injury settlement would only help in the event we cut him while he was injured.
 

Bohuntr97

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,109
Reaction score
1,211
Perhaps.. I’m no lawyer but if he can’t make the team what stops him from claiming his injury hindered him? Just spit balling here of course...

I'm guessing they still could, but they have to wait until off season workouts to evaluate his performance on the field. He would also have to agree to the terms, which includes provisions of re-paying the team if he signs with another. Most/many injury settlements are with players who's careers are likely over.
 

Nightman

Capologist
Messages
27,121
Reaction score
24,038
I had actually mentioned this exact hypothesis to Stash. We gave up the opportunity for a comp pick, but kept Hurns on our insurance and ability to use our medical team/facility. Like the Steelers are doing with Shazier.

This might actually work in our favor in making Hurns take a paycut. Say five days before the season we tell Hurns we want him to take a paycut or we will cut him. He would then be a free agent four days before the season and would lose $5M. I think he'd more than likely take a paycut insuring he stays on the team who just kept him while injured, instead of hope another team throws more than the minimum at him and then has to move and adjust to the new system.
I remember someone else mentioning the Comp Pick angle as well when we were having a discussion about the guaranteed money..... I forget who it was.... it is a smart plan as teams are getting more adept at manipulating the Comp Pick formulas

Unless he has a Split Contract Dallas risks him re-injuring his leg during OTAs or Training Camp and being on the hook for his 4m base salary

If he went on the IR he would get paid or reach an Injury Settlement to be waived

The team felt he is a replacement for Beasley in the Slot and was worth the risk and salary
 

CyberB0b

Village Idiot
Messages
12,271
Reaction score
13,537
Didn't the already pick up the option making this all moot?
Having a hard time understanding the point of this thread. It was such a brilliant move, but they didn't even capitalize on it, hahaha.

They signed a couple of scrubs to incentive based contracts. Genius!
 

buybuydandavis

Well-Known Member
Messages
23,771
Reaction score
20,847
@Nightman has brilliantly determined that the 2019 option for Hurns was done for comp pick purposes.

They also put a 2019 option into the contract of some other players that signed contracts last year.

My understanding of the Hurns option:

The option on Hurns is not guaranteed and does not involve any extra money. It's basically identical to a normal contract from the players perspective in that the team could retain or cut the player because there was no guaranteed money in 2019 with or without the option in the contract.

The cap ramifications to the team are identical to a normal contract.

The difference between the option and a normal contract is that if they had declined the option they would potentially get a comp pick if Hurns signed a contract with another team that qualified for a comp pick.


Normally a player that is cut does not qualify for the team to get a comp pick. Only players whose contract ended while with the team and are not re-signed qualify to return a comp pick.

The one benefit to the player is that the team is more likely to make the decision to cut or keep the player before free agency starts instead of cutting the player long after the beginning of free agency which with a normal contract could be anytime up to 1 week before game 1. The team can still cut Hurns with the same cap ramifications as not picking up the option but they will not have a chance for a comp pick because they did exercise the option.

Note: One blogger site thinks declining the option would eliminate all dead-money for Hurns in 2019. That is false. Money actually paid to a player always counts against the cap at some point.

Hurns was paid a 2.5M signing bonus and only half of that counted against the 2018 cap. The other half will count against the 2019 cap with or without Hurns on the roster. If they had declined the option or if they cut him anytime before the season starts then that half of the signing bonus will be called dead-money. If he remains on the roster that same 1.25M will be called the 2019 portion of his pro-rated signing bonus.

I noticed the "options" too. A way to "cut" without cutting, so that you still get the comp pick.

I'd expect the league to close this loophole someday.
 
Top