The problem is not the secondary

[Bungarian]

Although the secondary could play better it is the lack of pass rush that kills the team. Any secondary would look bad if the QB had 12 seconds to stand there before passing the ball.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Although the secondary could play better it is the lack of pass rush that kills the team. Any secondary would look bad if the QB had 12 seconds to stand there before passing the ball.

I agree but even if we had good pressure, we would still get burned by the long ball because our Safety play, on ball, is attrocious. Until that gets fixed, we can't have a really good secondary.



PS, I hate cover2

 

[Mansta54]

Pressure is the problem and has been the problem ever since Haley and Tolbert left.. Our secondary including the safeties would be very good in coverage if we could get consistent heat on the QB. Other then Ware, we get no pressure at all. NONE!!!!!

 

[dbair1967]

I agree but even if we had good pressure, we would still get burned by the long ball because our Safety play, on ball, is attrocious. Until that gets fixed, we can't have a really good secondary.



PS, I hate cover2

we might get burned some, but it wouldnt be anywhere near as often...a strong rush forces bad throws...we dont do that much...long passes downfield are the most inaccurate throws statistically there is, but for some reason it seems a high% are completed

no teams DB's can cover as long as our guys are asked to do

the other issue is stupid coverage schemes, with too many plays ending up with our ILB's or safeties against the other teams best receivers...when games are on the line Terrance Newman shouldnt be guarding some other teams scrub 4th WR in the slot, while Aaron Glenn and his 13 or 14yrs of wear and tear are asked to cover the other teams premier guy (ala Santana Moss and Roy Williams)

fix those two issues, and the problems with so many big plays allowed will go away

David

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Pressure is the problem and has been the problem ever since Haley and Tolbert left.. Our secondary including the safeties would be very good in coverage if we could get consistent heat on the QB. Other then Ware, we get no pressure at all. NONE!!!!!

This, IMO, is simply inaccurate. Too many times, we were burned down the seam or on the post. Too many times, even with good pressure on the QB.

As I said earlier, pressure takes care of a great deal of inadequacies but at some point, especially if your staple coverage is cover2, you gotta have some good safety play.

 

[dbair1967]

This, IMO, is simply inaccurate. Too many times, we were burned down the seam or on the post. Too many times, even with good pressure on the QB.

As I said earlier, pressure takes care of a great deal of inadequacies but at some point, especially if your staple coverage is cover2, you gotta have some good safety play.

I would ask you to go look back at how many long pass plays we allowed, and find even 3 or 4 of them where we had what anyone would call a "good" pressure on the passer

it just doesnt happen...even when we blitz the QB usually has a perfect pocket to throw from

David

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

we might get burned some, but it wouldnt be anywhere near as often...a strong rush forces bad throws...we dont do that much...long passes downfield are the most inaccurate throws statistically there is, but for some reason it seems a high% are completed

no teams DB's can cover as long as our guys are asked to do

the other issue is stupid coverage schemes, with too many plays ending up with our ILB's or safeties against the other teams best receivers...when games are on the line Terrance Newman shouldnt be guarding some other teams scrub 4th WR in the slot, while Aaron Glenn and his 13 or 14yrs of wear and tear are asked to cover the other teams premier guy (ala Santana Moss and Roy Williams)

fix those two issues, and the problems with so many big plays allowed will go away

David

Well, I'm pretty sure that's what I said. However, Cover2 basically demands that you get good play from your safeties or your going to get beat. That defense puts a great deal of pressure on the Safeties. You gotta have strong play from that position if your going to run a Tampa2 coverage scheme. That's just the way it is.

 

[dbair1967]

Well, I'm pretty sure that's what I said. However, Cover2 basically demands that you get good play from your safeties or your going to get beat. That defense puts a great deal of pressure on the Safeties. You gotta have strong play from that position if your going to run a Tampa2 coverage scheme. That's just the way it is.

then its another case of coaches not using players to the best of their ability

Newman is an elite man to man cover CB...Henry is very good man to man, when he is healthy...Glenn is good man to man in the short areas

there shouldnt be much use of any sort of zone scheme with the guys we have...

David

 

[FLcowboy]

Although the secondary could play better it is the lack of pass rush that kills the team. Any secondary would look bad if the QB had 12 seconds to stand there before passing the ball.

When I saw Ware covering a WR, I knew the defense was in trouble. What kind of scheme has Ware, the #1 rusher, doing out in the flat covering a wide receiver? It seems to me the lack of the ends being able to even apply pressure, let alone get a sack, is the biggest problem with the 3-4. Now I remember all the 3-4 gurus saying it was the LBs job to rush the passer, not the end, I have to wonder why Ware is covering a WR.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I would ask you to go look back at how many long pass plays we allowed, and find even 3 or 4 of them where we had what anyone would call a "good" pressure on the passer

it just doesnt happen...even when we blitz the QB usually has a perfect pocket to throw from

David

Off the top of my head, the skins game last year. Pressure came but we got beat deep twice.

 

[chinch]

what good is pressure when our "safety" is 10 yards out of position on just about every pattern run by mediocre TEs

they're playing shool-lot football against us ... pitch and catch... unless we sack them on "hike".

 

[mr.jameswoods]

This, IMO, is simply inaccurate. Too many times, we were burned down the seam or on the post. Too many times, even with good pressure on the QB.

As I said earlier, pressure takes care of a great deal of inadequacies but at some point, especially if your staple coverage is cover2, you gotta have some good safety play.

Very well said! Props

 

[dbair1967]

Off the top of my head, the skins game last year. Pressure came but we got beat deep twice.

there was no pressure on either of those long tds...go back and watch

Ellis did get held on the first one and it wasnt called, but otherwise there was absolutely nothing that looked like pressure

David

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

then its another case of coaches not using players to the best of their ability

Newman is an elite man to man cover CB...Henry is very good man to man, when he is healthy...Glenn is good man to man in the short areas

there shouldnt be much use of any sort of zone scheme with the guys we have...

David

I agree. We should be playing more of a Philly scheme using more straight man or bump and run techniques. We should be cheating Roy closer and using a single safety to support in more of a traditional role. We should be using our SS in blitz packages the way Jimmy Johnson does against us. I find nothing more irratating then to watch Philly play us. I know that at least once a game, we are going to get a CB or a safety blitzing us. It's so easy to defeat if you can just get that one second but we never pick it up. Then you gotta suffer with the Jimmy Johnson is the best DC in the league crap. I hate it.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

there was no pressure on either of those long tds...go back and watch

Ellis did get held on the first one and it wasnt called, but otherwise there was absolutely nothing that looked like pressure

David

Not how I remember that at all. I can not go back and review it because I don't have it taped but I recall Brunell having to evade pressure.

 

[mr.jameswoods]

I agree. We should be playing more of a Philly scheme using more straight man or bump and run techniques. We should be cheating Roy closer and using a single safety to support in more of a traditional role. We should be using our SS in blitz packages the way Jimmy Johnson does against us. I find nothing more irratating then to watch Philly play us. I know that at least once a game, we are going to get a CB or a safety blitzing us. It's so easy to defeat if you can just get that one second but we never pick it up. Then you gotta suffer with the Jimmy Johnson is the best DC in the league crap. I hate it.

In defense of Jimmy Johnson, he disguises those blitzes well. You have no idea who will blitz and it takes a very bright QB to identify it early. Yeah, we know the Eagles are going to blitz the waterboy, we just don't know when and where he is coming from.

 

[dbair1967]

Not how I remember that at all. I can not go back and review it because I don't have it taped but I recall Brunell having to evade pressure.

maybe somebody has the vids...but he basically dropped back, stood there then flung a perfect pass

he might have stepped up a little on the first one (where Ellis was held) but other than that, there was nothing

David

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

In defense of Jimmy Johnson, he disguises those blitzes well. You have no idea who will blitz and it takes a very bright QB to identify it early. Yeah, we know the Eagles are going to blitz the waterboy, we just don't know when and where he is coming from.

I can agree with this, to a point, but that's the advantage of playing man or tight coverage. When your up near the line in bump and run or tight man, you can easily free your assignment and dog the pass. If your back 10 yards off the ball all the time, you can't do that. You cheat and right away, your giving yourself up on the blitz. Even if you don't come, what have you really accomplished? The hot guy is simply going to break his assignment and slip to the zone or catch you out of position and hit the seam on you. To me, it's a waist of time.

All teams play cover2 to some extent but to me, I don't like it as a base coverage. I like it as a change up but nothing more. If you have the CBs to man up, do it.

 

[joseephuss]

McNabb had to avoid pressure on his long throws this season. Eli was flushed from the pocket on his long TD to Burress on MNF. There have been a lot of cases where Dallas made the QB move and either the safeties or linebackers just didn't cover their guy.

The inside linebackers are actually better in zone coverage than man to man coverage. Hard to believe, but true. That limits what Dallas can do.

Dallas runs the 3-4 scheme. That forces the outside linebackers to go out and line up against the receivers every now and then. That doesn't mean they are covering him every time, but it is part of the disguise. Most of the time, I saw line up on the running back that was split out, not the #1 receiver. That was rare and in that it was zone coverage, not man to man, so the scheme isn't as bad as some people are making it out to be. Plus Ware often did very well at jamming the receiver when he lined up on them, so I don't see the problem.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

McNabb had to avoid pressure on his long throws this season. Eli was flushed from the pocket on his long TD to Burress on MNF. There have been a lot of cases where Dallas made the QB move and either the safeties or linebackers just didn't cover their guy.

The inside linebackers are actually better in zone coverage than man to man coverage. Hard to believe, but true. That limits what Dallas can do.

Dallas runs the 3-4 scheme. That forces the outside linebackers to go out and line up against the receivers every now and then. That doesn't mean they are covering him every time, but it is part of the disguise. Most of the time, I saw line up on the running back that was split out, not the #1 receiver. That was rare and in that it was zone coverage, not man to man, so the scheme isn't as bad as some people are making it out to be. Plus Ware often did very well at jamming the receiver when he lined up on them, so I don't see the problem.

To me, the problem is not the 34, per say. I don't love that defense but in the end, it doesn't really matter. You have to have guys who can bring pressure regardless. To me, it's the Cover2. Safeties just have to play better in order for it to work. I just think it doesn't suite our personel very well.