The problem isn't the X's and O's, it's the Jimmys and Joes

[Coogiguy03]

2024 Aikman might be better than Dak.

easily the best post of your career here!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Nova]

Tuck is mostly right about this.

When we don't absolutely nail the 1st round pick, we struggle. And we haven't been nailing 1st rounders lately.

Last 8 1st rounders:
2024: Guyton
2023: Mazi
2022: Tyler Smith
2021: Parsons
2020: Lamb
2019: No Pick
2018: LVE
2017: Taco

Previous 8 (for comparison):
2016: Zeke
2015: Byron Jones
2014: Martin
2013: Frederick
2012: Mo
2011: Tyron
2010: Dez
2009: No Pick

 

[gimmesix]

Prime example was the ignorance of the Owner in bringing back Zeke. Mike had to know by TC that he couldn’t play anymore. Yet Owners kept making him play him. Once they gave in and we committed to Rico, and Martin sat this running game took off.

I'm not sure about this. I think that discredits McCarthy's role in player acquisition while indications are that it is somewhat of a collaborative process. For example, the front office "fought" to bring in Erik Kendricks because he was a guy Zimmer wanted to install his defense.

McCarthy, who hasn't proven that he's a great personnel man, possibly thought Elliott would be fine and was OK with bringing him back instead of getting a player like Henry. (His last two years with us, he started the seasons well but then faded when injuries hit.) That doesn't mean that McCarthy didn't want Henry, just that he may have thought Elliott would be good enough.

Now, that does not absolve the Joneses for not providing McCarthy with the ammo he needed. If Jerry is going to be the GM, then that's his job. It's like giving Nick Sirianni all the credit for Philly's success this year when it's clear that Howie Roseman has done a good job of giving him the pieces to succeed. How much did Sirianni contribute to picking those pieces is hard to say, but it's Roseman's job to provide them.

 

[thunderpimp91]

Football isnt the super complex animal its made out to be. We don't see nearly as much offensive innovation as we think we see. Its the same 7-8 run plays just packaged a little differently at times. We also are not seeing a ton of new route concepts, its mostly the same ones we have had for a quarter century now. The real innovation is typically more to do with having a quality OL allowing you to run longer developing routes, having two plus WRs to help dictate coverages, etc.

We can talk about innovation all day, but ultimately it still comes back to identifying what a defense is doing pre snap and getting your guys in place to take advantage of that.

 

[KingintheNorth]

First, no one should be listening to J Tuck for football opinions. He's Twitter Jerry with his self-promoting, self-loving, and nonsense football takes. Can't wait for him to go the Combine and pose with every player he sees, just so how he can post it next year and tell you how he liked him AFTER they've shown something at the NFL level.

Second, both things can be true. There is a talent issue. There is also a play-calling and play-design issue. McCarthy has been exposed. Why in the world is the talk of his return being discussed with the caveat of signing for incentives and having play-calling duties stripped? What self-proclaimed offensive guru agrees to that?

 

[youngjerryjones]

The Problem is Dallas isnt X's and O's it's Jimmy's and Joe's ... you can have all the offensive innovation in the world but if you dont have the players to execute then what is it? Mike McCarthy has done more with less consistently than any NFL coach .. he's that smart kid that just does dumb sht from time to time





He's absolutely right.

Of course you also have to add in the environment coaches have to coach in Dallas. An open door for the players to the owner, no authority to determine who plays and who sits and no command of your own coaching meetings or the locker room.

But his premise that it's the player not the coaches? Yes

And fans are stupid? Yes

The fact that this fanbase thinks we will upgrade after we dispose of MM is laughable. There are like 2 coaches who may be an upgrade - that we will never get. Ben Johnson and Bill B. Getting Jon Gruden would just be shooting for the stars - as his resume is the same as MM.

Then you forget your QB will be learning his 3-4th offense with a decade in the league, as well as your all-pro WR.

 

[thunderpimp91]

I'm not sure about this. I think that discredits McCarthy's role in player acquisition while indications are that it is somewhat of a collaborative process. For example, the front office "fought" to bring in Erik Kendricks because he was a guy Zimmer wanted to install his defense.

McCarthy, who hasn't proven that he's a great personnel man, possibly thought Elliott would be fine and was OK with bringing him back instead of getting a player like Henry. (His last two years with us, he started the seasons well but then faded when injuries hit.) That doesn't mean that McCarthy didn't want Henry, just that he may have thought Elliott would be good enough.

Now, that does not absolve the Joneses for not providing McCarthy with the ammo he needed. If Jerry is going to be the GM, then that's his job. It's like giving Nick Sirianni all the credit for Philly's success this year when it's clear that Howie Roseman has done a good job of giving him the pieces to succeed. How much did Sirianni contribute to picking those pieces is hard to say, but it's Roseman's job to provide them.

I know a lot of the talk is that its a collaborative process, but I do struggle to see where that is really showing itself consistently. The Trey Lance trade Jerry talked about how he doesnt have to consult anyone to make a move. DQ leaves and immediately throws cash at a pair of LBs.

Now there are some examples of guys who just look hand picked by the coaching staff. Overshown looked like a perfect addition for DQs scheme. Liufau is the prototype of a Zimmer defense. McCarthy loves TE depth so Schoon seems like a guy he would have wanted.

I'm pretty open minded on how much or how little MM is actually involved in player acquisition because the evidence seems to be very mixed.

 

[gtb1943]

I think MM has pretty much nothing to say as regards player acquisition.
Wonder how hard he has to work just to get the coaches he wants?

I do believe that his play calling is suspect. But I think its better than Kellen Moore's was.

I think we need a coach like Vrabel who will stand up to Jethro. Which is why he will never be here.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

The Problem is Dallas isnt X's and O's it's Jimmy's and Joe's ... you can have all the offensive innovation in the world but if you dont have the players to execute then what is it? Mike McCarthy has done more with less consistently than any NFL coach .. he's that smart kid that just does dumb sht from time to time





He's absolutely right.

Of course you also have to add in the environment coaches have to coach in Dallas. An open door for the players to the owner, no authority to determine who plays and who sits and no command of your own coaching meetings or the locker room.

But his premise that it's the player not the coaches? Yes

And fans are stupid? Yes

its not just about a single player and having two players expecting to have the best ever or even great team

the RB situation was pathetic. down and distance often dictate play calling and if the team knows you are passing then its easier to defend against.
the gap between CD and the next WR was huge. teams often doubled CD and for him to have accomplished what he did was fantastic. detroit had 2 1000 yard recievers. Paid brown handsomely. Philly has brown and smith, goedert.
we inisted in running zeke earlier in the year and that was a disaster, by the time we turned to Dowdle who was servicable, it was too late
we replaced two veteran OL men, with two rookies who struggled early on, and it took Guyton a while and in the end he was replaced. more than any other position group, OL fails/succeeds as a group. one failure and its a disaster often.
the DT position was just awful. plain awful. bad bad bad. it was bad all season. losing Lawrence who is decent in run defense hurt, then his back up got hurt, then Parsons got hurt. the Safties were cooked, we could see it last year and the joneses didn't do anything, then we got CB injuries and we had to win a lot of shoot outs early on and our offense was just not good enough. Zimmer was reluctant early in the year and made a lot of mistake with personnel and scheme management.

and then there is coaching and play calling. good at times, ugly at other times. very inconsistent.

 

[KingintheNorth]

The fact that this fanbase thinks we will upgrade after we dispose of MM is laughable. There are like 2 coaches who may be an upgrade - that we will never get. Ben Johnson and Bill B. Getting Jon Gruden would just be shooting for the stars - as his resume is the same as MM.

Then you forget your QB will be learning his 3-4th offense with a decade in the league, as well as your all-pro WR.

Here's your difference.

McCarthy told everyone how he studied all of the offensive playcalls while he was out of football and dove into analytics. He later admitted he lied.

Gruden literally spends every day diving into modern offenses. I was at a clinic with Sean McVay speaking and he took a phone call. He told us afterwards it was Gruden asking him about some concepts McVay used last year. McVay then showed us the exact plays Gruden was talking about. He said no one had caught onto it what he was trying to do until Gruden just did.

Gruden is what McCarthy pretends to be.

 

[BoyzBlaster]

2024 Aikman might be better than Dak.

2024 Otto Graham might be better than Dak, and he's dead.

 

[visionary]

LOL at this either/or crap
Yes, it is the Jimmys and Joes but it is ALSO Xs and Os

Yes we need to upgrade the roster in the worst way but Mccarthy is a middling HC, not a difference maker

A real GM would upgrade the roster AND get a real HC but of course neither will happen because we have idiot and son running this franchise

 

[visionary]

Prime example was the ignorance of the Owner in bringing back Zeke. Mike had to know by TC that he couldn’t play anymore. Yet Owners kept making him play him. Once they gave in and we committed to Rico, and Martin sat this running game took off.

If the roster is so so bad and the ownership does not let him do what he wants and hes s great HC, why didn’t he quit? Why doesn’t he leave now?

The reality is that fatso is a big part of the problem. Hes a slightly upgraded version of Garrett but not a great HC

 

[dupree89]

sorry, but I think Andy Reid would get much more production out of a guy like Turpin.

 

[thunderpimp91]

sorry, but I think Andy Reid would get much more production out of a guy like Turpin.

I cant really disagree...Andy Reid has a 1st round version of Turpin in Xavier Worthy and while Turpin didn't get the volume of what Worthy did, he certainly had more efficient numbers. I'm a big fan of having a WR like this on the roster, but sometimes a less is more approach is better too.

 

[Risen Star]

Here's your difference.

McCarthy told everyone how he studied all of the offensive playcalls while he was out of football and dove into analytics. He later admitted he lied.

Gruden literally spends every day diving into modern offenses. I was at a clinic with Sean McVay speaking and he took a phone call. He told us afterwards it was Gruden asking him about some concepts McVay used last year. McVay then showed us the exact plays Gruden was talking about. He said no one had caught onto it what he was trying to do until Gruden just did.

Gruden is what McCarthy pretends to be.

LOLOLOL

What a load of nonsense.

Gruden is totally what McCarthy pretends to be.*

*Except Jon Gruden has not been in any way more successful as a head coach than Mike McCarthy.

 

[dupree89]

I cant really disagree...Andy Reid has a 1st round version of Turpin in Xavier Worthy and while Turpin didn't get the volume of what Worthy did, he certainly had more efficient numbers. I'm a big fan of having a WR like this on the roster, but sometimes a less is more approach is better too.

that is absolutely fair. Good thoughts. Thank you.

 

[Risen Star]

that is absolutely fair. Good thoughts. Thank you.

You got schooled.

 

[youngjerryjones]

Here's your difference.

McCarthy told everyone how he studied all of the offensive playcalls while he was out of football and dove into analytics. He later admitted he lied.

Gruden literally spends every day diving into modern offenses. I was at a clinic with Sean McVay speaking and he took a phone call. He told us afterwards it was Gruden asking him about some concepts McVay used last year. McVay then showed us the exact plays Gruden was talking about. He said no one had caught onto it what he was trying to do until Gruden just did.

Gruden is what McCarthy pretends to be.

This may be true

 

[dupree89]

You got schooled.

yep