The Ramsey Conundrum

FuzzyLumpkins

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So we as usual have set up camps. I have been reading quite a bit of people saying that Ramsey doesn't make plays or isn't physical enough. I don't watch NCAA so I felt I needed to check to see if this was in fact is the case.

In case you haven't noticed, draftbreakdown is awesome, and you can watch multiple games of most of the top 100 or so prospects. Ramsey has 7 games up. I watched the Oregon, BC, Louisville, NC State, and ND games.

http://draftbreakdown.com/video/jalen-ramsey-vs-nc-state-2015/

First thing that strikes me about him is his gravitas. His teammates know he's there as he's in their face when they screw up or play with less than 100% intensity. His DC knows he's there because he is being moved all over the defensive formation and having plays designed around him.

Opposing OC's are aware of him because they gameplan/call for him. They try to run him off with deep crossing routes and throw it underneath to his side. They run rub plays at him. They throw away from him.

Opposing QBs are aware of him. They key off of him presnap and any throws to his side of the field. Blockers are too because he blitzed a lot.

Something you hope improves with maturity but he seems overly self centered. Against Oregon, he dropped an easy pick and then gave up a score in the first half. He quit giving effort and by the end of that series the entire defense mailed it in. He has that level of emotional impact on the team.

His physicality is obvious. He looks lean so I see why people say he has physical upside. OTOH, his functional strength is excellent as he uses his long arms for leverage routinely to handle TE and larger blockers in the run game. Same goes with rerouting receivers. Smaller receivers he just smothers them pushing them out of bounds on the press outside and riding them to the ground out of the slot.

Very aware player that can handle the mental aspects in the small and big picture at full speed. He diagnosis plays and attacks with technique. Can be baited with yo-yo play action but more often than not he is attacking the poa and keeping plays inside if not making the play himself. Teams used a lot of bunch coverage to try and fool him to a poor amount of success. Good at sniffing out screens/misdirection on blitzes.

Skilled at off and press man coverage. FSU was poor at zone calls and he would be one of two men covering the same guy multiple times. This was problematic in the red zone.

Natural ball skills that mesh with his awareness. Great recovery speed and leaping ability to make plays on the ball. Broke up a ton of plays at the point of catch. Outside of Oregon he competed at a high level consistently.

How he fits is obvious. With Jones moving to FS you have him do the same thing that Jones did this past year, moving him around the formation and looking for matchups. It's what he was already doing at FSU. With two players that dynamic in the secondary plus Scandrick, new coverage coordinator Eberflus will have some of the best talent in the NFL to work with.

With the leadership qualities that smack of Michael Irvin, the obvious intelligence, skill and superb athleticism, I wouldn't be surprised if Ramsey is #1 on the Cowboys board.
 

Idgit

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I want a QB, but he's the next player on my list if he's there and we don't go that route.
 

CATCH17

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He's a beast.

I really like him at corner and think he is a special player at that position.



Before anyone compares him to Mo Claiborne... This guy is big and plays big. You're getting a physical football player that showed at the combine that he is a great athlete too.


My first choice is Wentz.

My 2nd choice is trade down and get a coop.

3rd is Ramsey
 

casmith07

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I like him but I saw some negatives in watching (all of) his tape. I know there's some physicality, but he has a tendency to take some plays off and he does shy away from contact sometimes, which is kind of weird given his size. He's lean but not exactly small.

I think he's a great candidate either for a corner or safety role, kind of like Byron Jones. I would not be mad at the pick at all, but I'm not sure he's Top 5 in what I watched. In fact, aside from Tunsil, I don't know if anybody is worth top 5 consideration -- maybe Myles Jack prior to his injury.

Edit: That being said, with a draft that's absent barely any top 5 talent, taking him at 4 is a consensus pick amongst any team in the league and nobody would be saying "*** is Dallas doing" by selecting him at 4.

Being partial to defensive backs myself, I like him enough and would select him myself if he was on the board. The only other player I really like a ton is Myles Jack on defense, and Zeke on offense.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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baseless quote

He know when to turn his head and look for the ball. He attacks the high point when competing. His tear and rip technique to prevent the catch is better than any prospect I have ever seen.

He dropped a couple of interceptions but there is more to ball skills than just catching the ball.
 

Manwiththeplan

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Before anyone compares him to Mo Claiborne... This guy is big and plays big. You're getting a physical football player that showed at the combine that he is a great athlete too.

Ramsey is nothing like Claiborne and anyone who tries to compare the two is only showing that they are unfamiliar with one or both of them. However, I don't see how a defensive player who doesn't rush the QB at a high rate or force turnovers can be a top 5 pick.
 

Manwiththeplan

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He know when to turn his head and look for the ball. He attacks the high point when competing. His tear and rip technique to prevent the catch is better than any prospect I have ever seen.

He dropped a couple of interceptions but there is more to ball skills than just catching the ball.

Oh, I agree, but he severely lacks in an important factor in ball skills. And I don't think 10 passes deflected is a ton. Solid number, but not a ton as u suggested.
 

CATCH17

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Ramsey is nothing like Claiborne and anyone who tries to compare the two is only showing that they are unfamiliar with one or both of them. However, I don't see how a defensive player who doesn't rush the QB at a high rate or force turnovers can be a top 5 pick.


Yep..

I'll trade down and take Lawson, Spence, or Elliot + picks instead of Bosa.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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I like him but I saw some negatives in watching (all of) his tape. I know there's some physicality, but he has a tendency to take some plays off and he does shy away from contact sometimes, which is kind of weird given his size. He's lean but not exactly small.

I think he's a great candidate either for a corner or safety role, kind of like Byron Jones. I would not be mad at the pick at all, but I'm not sure he's Top 5 in what I watched. In fact, aside from Tunsil, I don't know if anybody is worth top 5 consideration -- maybe Myles Jack prior to his injury.

You rank what is there. He's a better prospect than Milliner, Claiborne, Gilbert, Waynes, or anyone else since Peterson.

Sounds like you are looking for generational surefire talent like Clowney and some others. There are rarely more than 1 of those in any draft.
 

tm1119

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I think he has a shot to be one of the better FS's in th league honestly. Not that he can't play CB, because he definitely can, but I just don't think he will be as great there. But if he does play CB full time I would think he needs to be playing press the majority of the time though, which he wouldn't here.

I like him a good bit better than Bosa though, and he's right about even with Jack. But it would still be dumb to pass on Goff or Wentz tho...
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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I think he has a shot to be one of the better FS's in th league honestly. Not that he can't play CB, because he definitely can, but I just don't think he will be as great there. But if he does play CB full time I would think he needs to be playing press the majority of the time though, which he wouldn't here.

I like him a good bit better than Bosa though, and he's right about even with Jack. But it would still be dumb to pass on Goff or Wentz tho...

I don't know enough to fairly evaluate QB's. The telecasts are too limited and there are too many questions about playcall on both sides to really make what I would consider an informed opinion.
 

jnday

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He know when to turn his head and look for the ball. He attacks the high point when competing. His tear and rip technique to prevent the catch is better than any prospect I have ever seen.

He dropped a couple of interceptions but there is more to ball skills than just catching the ball.

I understand your point, but the last thing I want to see in a CB drafted with the 4th pick is lack of turnovers. Newman used to be great in coverage during his prime , but it was maddening watching him drop balls that should have been interceptions. I like his speed , because I think this whole team needs to place a priority on speed much as Jimmy Johnson did years ago. Another concern I have with Ransey is that Rod will not use him in a way that gets the most out of his versatility . Do you think he has poor hands or is there other reasons for his lack of interceptions ?
 

RS12

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You rank what is there. He's a better prospect than Milliner, Claiborne, Gilbert, Waynes, or anyone else since Peterson.

Sounds like you are looking for generational surefire talent like Clowney and some others. There are rarely more than 1 of those in any draft.

Oh I completely agree with this. I forsee future endless threads about why Bosa doesnt get more sacks, or Ramsey or Jack force more turnovers.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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I understand your point, but the last thing I want to see in a CB drafted with the 4th pick is lack of turnovers. Newman used to be great in coverage during his prime , but it was maddening watching him drop balls that should have been interceptions. I like his speed , because I think this whole team needs to place a priority on speed much as Jimmy Johnson did years ago. Another concern I have with Ransey is that Rod will not use him in a way that gets the most out of his versatility . Do you think he has poor hands or is there other reasons for his lack of interceptions ?

I only saw the one drop against Oregon. I don't think there is enough data to conclude his hands suck although it is certainly possible.

I think it's reductio ad absurdum to fixate on the pick stat. He is an obvious game changer in more ways than one. He allowed his DC to dictate the action because of how OC's responded to him on the field.
 
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