CFZ The Reincarnation of Harvey Martin

[plasticman]

Harvey Martin and Ed Jones were not called "Thunder" and "Lightning"

Both Jones and Martin were designated pass rushers. The starters were Larry Cole and Pat Toomay.

Cole and Toomay were excellent run defenders and they were called "thunder". On obvious passing downs Landry would insert Martin and Jones as pass rushers. They were "lightning".

When Toomay was traded and Bob Lilly retired, Cole was moved to DT and both Martin and Jones became the starters at DE.

Harvey Martin wasted no time displaying his abilities. As a backup in his rookie season, he had 9 sacks. That only tells half the story, he was an absolute disruptor. If Sam Williams was going to be he next Harvey Martin he would have left no doubt last season.

I'm not saying it won't happen and his productivity was very impressive. However, at this point I wouldn't call it worthy of being proclaimed the next Harvey Martin.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

Harvey Martin
Heavenly Made
Heaven sent, bent on putting a dent on opposing QB's.

A third round DE draft pick out of East Texas State, he was considered too passive when he arrived in traiing camp in July 1973.

After working with legendary DL coach Ernie Stautner, Harvey transformed into an aggressive player.
Harvey was damn fast, faster than some Cowboys DB's.

The conservative Tom Landry used him as a designated pass-rusher his first two years/ he was lightning in a bottle, leading the Boys in sacks both years.

He became Harvey "Too Mean" Martin in 1974 when Ed "Too Tall" Jones came to the Boys as the first player in the draft.
In 1975, Landry started both Harvey and Too Tall in the starting lineup, and they were called Thunder and Lightning.

This two-some bookends in their first year as starters took the Boys to the Super Bowl in 1975 and two others in 1977 and 1978.

Harvey Martin was a fierce great player on the field, getting pressure on QB's at will. In his 5th year, he had one of the greatest years ever by a Dallas defender, Defensive MVP of the NFL, 23 sacks in 14 games. He was a great all around player, fiery on the field.

As a die hard Cowboy fan for so many decades, I have seen Demarcus Ware get into the Harvey Martin level of dominating pass rusher, primarily from the right side. But where has a pure DE come in as a draft pick and dominated for many years as a pass rush terror?

It had to happen sooner or later.

That man has arrived. I have seen him as a rookie, displaying Harvey Martn pass rushing talent and he led the Boys in tackles for loss in limited appearances. He ran a 4.46 at the combine. I am excited about him. Quinn is excited about him.

I predict that Sam Williams will win the RDE starting position and will be a double digit sack performer for many years. He will be our new Harvey Martin on the field performer and dominator, making Micah Parsons even more lethal.

#54 Sam Williams is the reincarnation of Harvey Martin and will lift the Boys' defense to another level of domination.

I dunna know what to say...

 

[CouchCoach]

I dunno about that Heaven Made and Heaven Sent. Did they also send Conrad Dobler down here?

 

[shabazz]

If he ever gets a show on radio called the “Beautiful Sam Williams show” we’ll all know he arrived.

 

[Typhus]

Harvey Martin
Heavenly Made
Heaven sent, bent on putting a dent on opposing QB's.

A third round DE draft pick out of East Texas State, he was considered too passive when he arrived in traiing camp in July 1973.

After working with legendary DL coach Ernie Stautner, Harvey transformed into an aggressive player.
Harvey was damn fast, faster than some Cowboys DB's.

The conservative Tom Landry used him as a designated pass-rusher his first two years/ he was lightning in a bottle, leading the Boys in sacks both years.

He became Harvey "Too Mean" Martin in 1974 when Ed "Too Tall" Jones came to the Boys as the first player in the draft.
In 1975, Landry started both Harvey and Too Tall in the starting lineup, and they were called Thunder and Lightning.

This two-some bookends in their first year as starters took the Boys to the Super Bowl in 1975 and two others in 1977 and 1978.

Harvey Martin was a fierce great player on the field, getting pressure on QB's at will. In his 5th year, he had one of the greatest years ever by a Dallas defender, Defensive MVP of the NFL, 23 sacks in 14 games. He was a great all around player, fiery on the field.

As a die hard Cowboy fan for so many decades, I have seen Demarcus Ware get into the Harvey Martin level of dominating pass rusher, primarily from the right side. But where has a pure DE come in as a draft pick and dominated for many years as a pass rush terror?

It had to happen sooner or later.

That man has arrived. I have seen him as a rookie, displaying Harvey Martn pass rushing talent and he led the Boys in tackles for loss in limited appearances. He ran a 4.46 at the combine. I am excited about him. Quinn is excited about him.

I predict that Sam Williams will win the RDE starting position and will be a double digit sack performer for many years. He will be our new Harvey Martin on the field performer and dominator, making Micah Parsons even more lethal.

#54 Sam Williams is the reincarnation of Harvey Martin and will lift the Boys' defense to another level of domination.

Some players you can see it early, Sam Williams is that, and easily identifiable with size/speed/instincts hat trick.
Most here scoff at the eye test though.

 

[CCBoy]

Harvey Martin and Ed Jones were not called "Thunder" and "Lightning"

Both Jones and Martin were designated pass rushers. The starters were Larry Cole and Pat Toomay.

Cole and Toomay were excellent run defenders and they were called "thunder". On obvious passing downs Landry would insert Martin and Jones as pass rushers. They were "lightning".

When Toomay was traded and Bob Lilly retired, Cole was moved to DT and both Martin and Jones became the starters at DE.

Harvey Martin wasted no time displaying his abilities. As a backup in his rookie season, he had 9 sacks. That only tells half the story, he was an absolute disruptor. If Sam Williams was going to be he next Harvey Martin he would have left no doubt last season.

I'm not saying it won't happen and his productivity was very impressive. However, at this point I wouldn't call it worthy of being proclaimed the next Harvey Martin.

At A&I we had a pair of runners who were known as 'thunder' and 'lightening.' Lightening ended up in Chicago as a top shelf return man. Johnny Bailey

 

[Pass2Run]

Before my time..

 

[Typhus]

Our backup rotational guys? Armstrong, Fowler, Odiggy, Gallimore, Cox, Overshone, Lewis, Hooker, Joseph, Wright and Israel Whatshisname. A few of those guys would start on some teams.

Just call him Muk

 

[Typhus]

Before my time..

Now I understand Grasshopper....

 

[jwitten82]

My only fear of death is coming back reincarnated!!!

 

[plasticman]

At A&I we had a pair of runners who were known as 'thunder' and 'lightening.' Lightening ended up in Chicago as a top shelf return man. Johnny Bailey

I remember him. At that point in time, wasn't he the leading rusher in NCAA history? I know he rushed for over 6000 yards in college.

 

[CCBoy]

I remember him. At that point in time, wasn't he the leading rusher in NCAA history? I know he rushed for over 6000 yards in college.

Yes, and another Javelina...great memory there.

 

[Jumbo075]

Comparing Sam Williams with Harvey Martin? This happens to a lot of fans the closer we get to training camp. Lol

It is normal to compare current players to great players of the past. Certainly, comparing them to busts and also-rans would be pointless. We all get compared to a standard, regardless of what we do. Why some fans have a problem with other fans making comparisons to past great players always confuses me. Who else should we be comparing current players against?

 

[KJJ]

It is normal to compare current players to great players of the past. Certainly, comparing them to busts and also-rans would be pointless. We all get compared to a standard, regardless of what we do. Why some fans have a problem with other fans making comparisons to past great players always confuses me. Who else should we be comparing current players against?

Comparing Sam Williams to Harvey Martin isn’t normal. Williams showed some flashes as a rookie, but disappeared later in the season. He has a long way to go just to be a good, consistent player. I’m not into comparing current players with great players, unless I see a comparison. The OP is the only one I’ve seen compare Sam Williams to Harvey Martin.

 

[gtb1943]

Comparing Sam Williams to Harvey Martin isn’t normal. Williams showed some flashes as a rookie, but disappeared later in the season. He has a long way to go just to be a good, consistent player. I’m not into comparing current players with great players, unless I see a comparison. The OP is the only one I’ve seen compare Sam Williams to Harvey Martin.

Fan is short for fanatic; so it is to be expected that some fanatics would post foolish things. Sam Williams has done nothing to warrant the comparison; and frankly it is an insult to the memory of Harvey Martin to do so at this time.

 

[Jumbo075]

You ALWAYS compare yourself to the best. ALWAYS. The comparison may show your deficiencies, or your strengths. But you ALWAYS make the comparison. To do otherwise is to shortchange any potential you have before you get a chance for it to develop.

Castigating other fans for making comparisons to great players is pretty atrocious for a fan to do. None of us, not you or anyone else knows whether Sam Williams will become an all-time great player, or just another player to forget. Get off your high horse and quit condemning other fans for being excited about young players. "I told you so" has zero value.

I doubt Sam Williams will become as good as Harvey Martin because Martin set such a high standard. Only the best can achieve such a high standard. But I don't KNOW that Sam Williams won't become a similar type player for the Cowboys (or maybe even another team if he gets crowded out in Dallas), and neither do you. It is extremely arrogant to prematurely judge a player, and to judge other fans for hoping for the best. What do you accomplish by being negative about someone else's excitement?

A player that comes to mind is former 2nd round pick WR Jimmy Smith. He could never crack the Cowboys lineup, and left to become the best receiver in Jaguars history. Another player that comes to mind is former 1st round pick LB Randy White, who had a terrible first two years. Then he shifted to DT, and ended his career in the Hall of Fame. Another player that comes to mind is Robert Griffin III. He was rookie of the year in Washington, and then flamed out quickly. Judging a player early just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[KJJ]

Fan is short for fanatic; so it is to be expected that some fanatics would post foolish things. Sam Williams has done nothing to warrant the comparison; and frankly it is an insult to the memory of Harvey Martin to do so at this time.

When you compare players, you want to see some similarities. I didn’t see any similarities between Sam Williams and Harvey Martin last season. Maybe at some point a comparison can be made, but not after season one. We have a lot of dreamers here.

 

[Jumbo075]

Way too early for that kind of talk.
But it would be nice if it came to pass.

It is also way to early to throw cold water on the flame of excitement and anticipation.

 

[Sarge]

Ya, but is he “mean?”

 

[noshame]

Don't know what level he'll reach, but he seems to have "it"

No doubt about it, this defense will be super bowl winning caliber.
We led the league in take aways
This year I look for records to fall
Provided the offense doesn't give the ball right back.