The "RKG" Contradiction

The Natural

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The Cowboys have had 9 suspensions over the past 2 years* , second only to Washington's 10. The average conference championship participant had 3.5 over that same period.
Interesting stat. 3 times as many suspensions as the average conference championship participant over the last 2 years. We got like 4 starters on defense who are eligible for a 10 game suspension their next screw up right?
 

Idgit

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Jason Garrett needs to shut his stupid mouth and hope Tony can save his job a few more years.


For the record, Jason Garrett wasn't the one opening his mouth on this topic for the 10,000th time. It's you guys, misunderstanding the very simple distinction he makes and then slagging on it as if it's in any way relevant every time the potential to bring a guy on board with a possible character red flag comes up.
 

CATCH17

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For the record, Jason Garrett wasn't the one opening his mouth on this topic for the 10,000th time. It's you guys, misunderstanding the very simple distinction he makes and then slagging on it as if it's in any way relevant every time the potential to bring a guy on board with a possible character red flag comes up.

Well..... He needs to shut his mouth anyways! :)
 

Nightman

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Interesting stat. 3 times as many suspensions as the average conference championship participant over the last 2 years. We got like 4 starters on defense who are eligible for a 10 game suspension their next screw up right?

So even Garrett doesn't know what a RKG is anymore. Can't help the team from the bench, the tub or penalty box.
 

DFWJC

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Nah... Denver won with dumb players everywhere but Manning is the face of it.


Dallas needs to do the same thing because Romo will be the guy that gets 99% of the credit.

Can't imagine the public ever giving Tony Romo 99% of credit unless a negative event happens.
 

TheDude

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For the record, Jason Garrett wasn't the one opening his mouth on this topic for the 10,000th time. It's you guys, misunderstanding the very simple distinction he makes and then slagging on it as if it's in any way relevant every time the potential to bring a guy on board with a possible character red flag comes up.

It is a tenet espoused as a core belief communicated as a competitive advantage that hasn't materialized. Juxtapose the different styles between Belicheck and Garrett. Belicheck handles this as "We think he can help our team." or "We went another way." Period.

But the below is a blathering circumlocution of nothingness other than inconsistency or flat out lying and obfuscation. Read it once for its face value then go back and replace the the descriptors with the antonyms. Then ask " What team desires rough personal character, bad football character" He acknowledges the take flyers on character issues via "structures in place" which means you do waver on that declarative statement. Then accountability is only brought up as to the player and with an air that the "unwavering belief" might need some accountability as well

Its hollow, white noise that is espoused by the guy at every turn. And therefore should be completely open to challenge if there is inconsistency and more importantly no competitive advantage of the core belief

From the Garret Character thread:

“We believe in the structure and we hope that anybody we choose to bring to our team can be the right kind of guy,” Garrett said at the scouting combine. “We believe strongly in that. It starts with makeup . It starts with personal character and football character. That’s what every evaluation of any college player, any of the players we would have on our team right now or any player we’re thing about bring on our team in free agency. We haven’t wavered on that. I think if you look at our football team and anybody who’s around our football team knows the kind of character we have on our team. We have as good a character football team as I’ve been around throughout my career. Just cornerstone type guys who do everything the right way on the field and off the field.”
....
"I thought Greg did some good things on the field,” Garrett said. “I thought he had some issues that occurred off the field that weren't good for our football team. That's about it.”

Garrett said he has not spoken with Gregory since the NFL announced the suspension.

“We knew all of the issues with Randy coming out here in the draft last year and the issues he had coming into the National Football League,” Garrett said. “We felt like we put a really good structure in place for him to help overcome it. Our eyes were wide open. The structure, we felt like it was a good one and unfortunately over the course of this season he slipped up. He made a mistake. He has to be accountable for that. There are no excuses and we’re all disappointed with what that is. But now we have to move forward and he has to move forward and put this behind him.”
 

Nightman

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It is a tenet espoused as a core belief communicated as a competitive advantage that hasn't materialized. Juxtapose the different styles between Belicheck and Garrett. Belicheck handles this as "We think he can help our team." or "We went another way." Period.

But the below is a blathering circumlocution of nothingness other than inconsistency or flat out lying and obfuscation. Read it once for its face value then go back and replace the the descriptors with the antonyms. Then ask " What team desires rough personal character, bad football character" He acknowledges the take flyers on character issues via "structures in place" which means you do waver on that declarative statement. Then accountability is only brought up as to the player and with an air that the "unwavering belief" might need some accountability as well

Its hollow, white noise that is espoused by the guy at every turn. And therefore should be completely open to challenge if there is inconsistency and more importantly no competitive advantage of the core belief

From the Garret Character thread:

“We believe in the structure and we hope that anybody we choose to bring to our team can be the right kind of guy,” Garrett said at the scouting combine. “We believe strongly in that. It starts with makeup . It starts with personal character and football character. That’s what every evaluation of any college player, any of the players we would have on our team right now or any player we’re thing about bring on our team in free agency. We haven’t wavered on that. I think if you look at our football team and anybody who’s around our football team knows the kind of character we have on our team. We have as good a character football team as I’ve been around throughout my career. Just cornerstone type guys who do everything the right way on the field and off the field.”
....
"I thought Greg did some good things on the field,” Garrett said. “I thought he had some issues that occurred off the field that weren't good for our football team. That's about it.”

Garrett said he has not spoken with Gregory since the NFL announced the suspension.

“We knew all of the issues with Randy coming out here in the draft last year and the issues he had coming into the National Football League,” Garrett said. “We felt like we put a really good structure in place for him to help overcome it. Our eyes were wide open. The structure, we felt like it was a good one and unfortunately over the course of this season he slipped up. He made a mistake. He has to be accountable for that. There are no excuses and we’re all disappointed with what that is. But now we have to move forward and he has to move forward and put this behind him.”

ssshhhhh....they are listening
 

cowboyblue22

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the dallas media has been hammering garrett last couple days over all these suspensions.
 

cml750

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It is a tenet espoused as a core belief communicated as a competitive advantage that hasn't materialized. Juxtapose the different styles between Belicheck and Garrett. Belicheck handles this as "We think he can help our team." or "We went another way." Period.

But the below is a blathering circumlocution of nothingness other than inconsistency or flat out lying and obfuscation. Read it once for its face value then go back and replace the the descriptors with the antonyms. Then ask " What team desires rough personal character, bad football character" He acknowledges the take flyers on character issues via "structures in place" which means you do waver on that declarative statement. Then accountability is only brought up as to the player and with an air that the "unwavering belief" might need some accountability as well

Its hollow, white noise that is espoused by the guy at every turn. And therefore should be completely open to challenge if there is inconsistency and more importantly no competitive advantage of the core belief

From the Garret Character thread:

“We believe in the structure and we hope that anybody we choose to bring to our team can be the right kind of guy,” Garrett said at the scouting combine. “We believe strongly in that. It starts with makeup . It starts with personal character and football character. That’s what every evaluation of any college player, any of the players we would have on our team right now or any player we’re thing about bring on our team in free agency. We haven’t wavered on that. I think if you look at our football team and anybody who’s around our football team knows the kind of character we have on our team. We have as good a character football team as I’ve been around throughout my career. Just cornerstone type guys who do everything the right way on the field and off the field.”
....
"I thought Greg did some good things on the field,” Garrett said. “I thought he had some issues that occurred off the field that weren't good for our football team. That's about it.”

Garrett said he has not spoken with Gregory since the NFL announced the suspension.

“We knew all of the issues with Randy coming out here in the draft last year and the issues he had coming into the National Football League,” Garrett said. “We felt like we put a really good structure in place for him to help overcome it. Our eyes were wide open. The structure, we felt like it was a good one and unfortunately over the course of this season he slipped up. He made a mistake. He has to be accountable for that. There are no excuses and we’re all disappointed with what that is. But now we have to move forward and he has to move forward and put this behind him.”

Excellent Post!!!!!!
 

Idgit

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It is a tenet espoused as a core belief communicated as a competitive advantage that hasn't materialized. Juxtapose the different styles between Belicheck and Garrett. Belicheck handles this as "We think he can help our team." or "We went another way." Period.

But the below is a blathering circumlocution of nothingness other than inconsistency or flat out lying and obfuscation. Read it once for its face value then go back and replace the the descriptors with the antonyms. Then ask " What team desires rough personal character, bad football character" He acknowledges the take flyers on character issues via "structures in place" which means you do waver on that declarative statement. Then accountability is only brought up as to the player and with an air that the "unwavering belief" might need some accountability as well

Its hollow, white noise that is espoused by the guy at every turn. And therefore should be completely open to challenge if there is inconsistency and more importantly no competitive advantage of the core belief

From the Garret Character thread:

“We believe in the structure and we hope that anybody we choose to bring to our team can be the right kind of guy,” Garrett said at the scouting combine. “We believe strongly in that. It starts with makeup . It starts with personal character and football character. That’s what every evaluation of any college player, any of the players we would have on our team right now or any player we’re thing about bring on our team in free agency. We haven’t wavered on that. I think if you look at our football team and anybody who’s around our football team knows the kind of character we have on our team. We have as good a character football team as I’ve been around throughout my career. Just cornerstone type guys who do everything the right way on the field and off the field.”
....
"I thought Greg did some good things on the field,” Garrett said. “I thought he had some issues that occurred off the field that weren't good for our football team. That's about it.”

Garrett said he has not spoken with Gregory since the NFL announced the suspension.

“We knew all of the issues with Randy coming out here in the draft last year and the issues he had coming into the National Football League,” Garrett said. “We felt like we put a really good structure in place for him to help overcome it. Our eyes were wide open. The structure, we felt like it was a good one and unfortunately over the course of this season he slipped up. He made a mistake. He has to be accountable for that. There are no excuses and we’re all disappointed with what that is. But now we have to move forward and he has to move forward and put this behind him.”

Well, to start with, I have no problem with the HC spouting white noise to the press. Following up a guy like Wade where idiots in the local press corps felt comfortable telling him to his face that they could outcoach him is not exactly a tough job. Just smiling at them and saying things like 'we're looking for the right kinds of players' is fine by me.

But more importantly, he didn't say anything here at all, people are just reacting to things he's said in the past. And that's fine, too, if you want to criticize, but I'm not seeing much to be critical of. They believe anybody they bring in is either of the right character or can become the right time of character given the resources they have on staff. They thought that of Hardy when they brought him on board, enough to structure a lucrative one-year deal, anyway. People get carried away with the personal stuff, but the personal stuff was never the issue in Dallas other than the effect of the impending suspension.

They way it played out, Greg did things off the field that made them feel they weren't able to help him become the right kind of character for the team they want, and they parted ways. What's the issue? Are you suggesting he said earlier the whole team was good guys and determined later that Greg Hardy actually wasn't? If so, I'd say 'so what?' to that. He was talking collectively there, even if it wasn't clear from context. If you're making a different point and I'm just missing it, I'm all ears.

I do agree with you that Belichick handles it better. Belichick's a beast and just a better all-around coach right now. I've come to terms with that, long ago.
 

Idgit

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ssshhhhh....they are listening

I'm going to pretend this is an obscure reference to something other than the forum moderation because it's just obtuse enough for me to be able to.

But on a completely unrelated note, let me take a second here to remind everybody in all the threads that there's a Rules link at the top of every page and that it makes sense to be familiar with them before posting. I'll also remind everybody that there's a Report function in the footer of every post if you think a post is in violation of the Rules, so please use that instead of popping off at other posters first and then trying to blame them for your lack of discretion later.
 

TheDude

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Well, to start with, I have no problem with the HC spouting white noise to the press. Following up a guy like Wade where idiots in the local press corps felt comfortable telling him to his face that they could outcoach him is not exactly a tough job. Just smiling at them and saying things like 'we're looking for the right kinds of players' is fine by me.

But more importantly, he didn't say anything here at all, people are just reacting to things he's said in the past. And that's fine, too, if you want to criticize, but I'm not seeing much to be critical of. They believe anybody they bring in is either of the right character or can become the right time of character given the resources they have on staff. They thought that of Hardy when they brought him on board, enough to structure a lucrative one-year deal, anyway. People get carried away with the personal stuff, but the personal stuff was never the issue in Dallas other than the effect of the impending suspension.

They way it played out, Greg did things off the field that made them feel they weren't able to help him become the right kind of character for the team they want, and they parted ways. What's the issue? Are you suggesting he said earlier the whole team was good guys and determined later that Greg Hardy actually wasn't? If so, I'd say 'so what?' to that. He was talking collectively there, even if it wasn't clear from context. If you're making a different point and I'm just missing it, I'm all ears.

I do agree with you that Belichick handles it better. Belichick's a beast and just a better all-around coach right now. I've come to terms with that, long ago.

To clarify "RKG" is white noise and is perfectly acceptable. People can get mad at that all day long if they want but it is a dismissive comment that coaches use.

Where you open yourself up is when you expound on it like it is a virtue that if we follow long enough, it breeds success alone. The toiling on and on with explanations of how "it is the cornerstone" and inherent value or that is a differentiator from other teams is pretentious. That turns white noise to fingernails/chalkboard noise. It begins to grate especially when you couple the above with "We never waver from that" - "Best group in my career." You offer the listener to recall facts and examples and comparisons that counter those assertions. It shouldn't be expected that the whole of the public cannot or should not challenge that. Or when they do challenge with tangible examples, moving the goalposts or taking liberties with the definition further shouldnt be championed.

The only way RKG works is "we think he is the RKG for us" or "he isnt the right kind of guy for us" Period. To say Hardy was the RKG after vetting him and them apparently he may not be the RKG when it doesnt work - that alone is antecdotal (odd he never lost playing time, but antecdotal).

vBut when you combine it with Gregory, with Lawrence with Randle, w R McClain, etc. Maybe, just maybe, they are overestimating their ability to define, project or mold a RKG [expanded definition].

RKG is electing a politician who believes in family values. Of you course you want families valued, or the value of the family championed But how someone interprets family values as to social issues, race, money, rights, etc begins to peel back the onion just a bit on the platitude
 

TheDude

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I'm going to pretend this is an obscure reference to something other than the forum moderation because it's just obtuse enough for me to be able to.

But on a completely unrelated note, let me take a second here to remind everybody in all the threads that there's a Rules link at the top of every page and that it makes sense to be familiar with them before posting. I'll also remind everybody that there's a Report function in the footer of every post if you think a post is in violation of the Rules, so please use that instead of popping off at other posters first and then trying to blame them for your lack of discretion later.

Not sure if the second paragraph was a continuation to the OP or a conduit through to my post that was replied. I honestly am completely lost, but no offense intended to anyone in advance
 

Idgit

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Not sure if the second paragraph was a continuation to the OP or a conduit through to my post that was replied. I honestly am completely lost, but no offense intended to anyone in advance

Lol. It had nothing to do with your post, whatsoever. :)
 

Idgit

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To clarify "RKG" is white noise and is perfectly acceptable. People can get mad at that all day long if they want but it is a dismissive comment that coaches use.

Where you open yourself up is when you expound on it like it is a virtue that if we follow long enough, it breeds success alone. The toiling on and on with explanations of how "it is the cornerstone" and inherent value or that is a differentiator from other teams is pretentious. That turns white noise to fingernails/chalkboard noise. It begins to grate especially when you couple the above with "We never waver from that" - "Best group in my career." You offer the listener to recall facts and examples and comparisons that counter those assertions. It shouldn't be expected that the whole of the public cannot or should not challenge that. Or when they do challenge with tangible examples, moving the goalposts or taking liberties with the definition further shouldnt be championed.

The only way RKG works is "we think he is the RKG for us" or "he isnt the right kind of guy for us" Period. To say Hardy was the RKG after vetting him and them apparently he may not be the RKG when it doesnt work - that alone is antecdotal (odd he never lost playing time, but antecdotal).

vBut when you combine it with Gregory, with Lawrence with Randle, w R McClain, etc. Maybe, just maybe, they are overestimating their ability to define, project or mold a RKG [expanded definition].

RKG is electing a politician who believes in family values. Of you course you want families valued, or the value of the family championed But how someone interprets family values as to social issues, race, money, rights, etc begins to peel back the onion just a bit on the platitude

In the quote you provided, at least, he's only saying they thought Hardy, with the support system they had in place, *could* be the kind of guy they were looking for. And when it turned out they deemed he was not, they moved on after the season. That's pretty cut and dry.

Gregory has a substance issue, but they knew that coming in. Again, he was a guy they thought could become the kind of guy they're looking for if given the right support. They obviously have a high degree of faith in their support structure. But it was never the case that they determined they weren't going to take risks on high-potential players. That's not Jerry's way. They're only saying they're going to do it when they think a guy's football character justifies the risk.

You didn't mention Josh Brent, but he's another player who I think had troubles but who they thought they could support and who they thought cared a lot about teammates and football.

Lawrence, it remains to be seen what his slip up was, so let's withhold judgement until we know. If it was really the case of an unmarked PED in a supplement, as has been hinted at, I'm not going to ding the guy's character for that.

McClain, I agree with. I don't see him as a high character guy, and I've never liked him being on the team. They seem to think he is, but I can't imagine what they're seeing that I"m not.

And I disagree, a little bit, on RKG being completely meaningless. I agree it's largely a 'no duh' kind of measurement, but there are players out there who are very talented athletes to whom football is just not that important. Bruce Carter was one on our own roster. Greg Hardy ended up in that category. We've seen an influx of guys who were team captains on draft days (at least it seems like that's the case), and not a whole lot of guys getting popped at night clubs or after hours. If you look at the NFL arrest reports, we're down in the bottom quintile, I believe of teams in the league in that regard. It may not be a perfect record, but relative to the rest of the league, it's pretty good. It's not all just white noise and lip-service.
 

TheDude

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In the quote you provided, at least, he's only saying they thought Hardy, with the support system they had in place, *could* be the kind of guy they were looking for. And when it turned out they deemed he was not, they moved on after the season. That's pretty cut and dry.

I think that is bit of a generous benefit of the doubt unless it all went south after the final game. any other scenario means "they wavered" Hardy lost 0 playing time, wasnt cut to save tangible cap space and carryforward. They likely knew he was a "non-rkg" weeks before.

Gregory has a substance issue, but they knew that coming in. Again, he was a guy they thought could become the kind of guy they're looking for if given the right support. They obviously have a high degree of faith in their support structure. But it was never the case that they determined they weren't going to take risks on high-potential players. That's not Jerry's way. They're only saying they're going to do it when they think a guy's football character justifies the risk.

They overestimated the structure. clearly

You didn't mention Josh Brent, but he's another player who I think had troubles but who they thought they could support and who they thought cared a lot about teammates and football.

Brent is tragic, but he was a 7th rd supplement. But the results show the structure was inadequate if you measure by results

Lawrence, it remains to be seen what his slip up was, so let's withhold judgement until we know. If it was really the case of an unmarked PED in a supplement, as has been hinted at, I'm not going to ding the guy's character for that.
[/quote]
I'll reserve some here, but it appears that the fire is very adept at finding the smoke

McClain, I agree with. I don't see him as a high character guy, and I've never liked him being on the team. They seem to think he is, but I can't imagine what they're seeing that I"m not.
The biggest example that "unwavering" is a charade. He had a decent start to 2014. Faded and mailed in many plays late in the year. Gets begged to come back, and gets suspended. Now seems to be overweight after a lackluster 2015.

TO me unwavering is a strong assertion, I cant see any definition of unwavering that at least isnt listing port or starboard a bit

And I disagree, a little bit, on RKG being completely meaningless. I agree it's largely a 'no duh' kind of measurement, but there are players out there who are very talented athletes to whom football is just not that important. Bruce Carter was one on our own roster. Greg Hardy ended up in that category. We've seen an influx of guys who were team captains on draft days (at least it seems like that's the case), and not a whole lot of guys getting popped at night clubs or after hours. If you look at the NFL arrest reports, we're down in the bottom quintile, I believe of teams in the league in that regard. It may not be a perfect record, but relative to the rest of the league, it's pretty good. It's not all just white noise and lip-service.


I'll agree that there are few arrests, but not the 180 that the Parcells/campo culture did. Wade didnt have many misbehavers either. IMO, though, when you bring R McClain intothe discussion, the RKG basically is family values
 
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