The Scheme Is Not The Issue

[Cowboys&LakersFan]

I see alot of people suggesting we switch defensive schemes and I just don't get it. First of all our players are idiots switching schemes would be way to confusing for their small brains. Second switching schemes won't do anything. The scheme is not the problem it's the lack of talent on the defensive line and the secondary. It doesn't matter whether you have a 4-3 or 3-4 defense if you don't have enough talent you will continue to struggle.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

I agree. The lack of talent is the primary issue.

But here's my deal: If you can find good talent that better fits a 4-3, I say get it and make the transition. I'm not going to pass on good talent simply because it doesn't fit a 3-4 scheme.

 

[Romo2Bryant4Six]

I see alot of people suggesting we switch defensive schemes and I just don't get it. First of all our players are idiots switching schemes would be way to confusing for their small brains. Second switching schemes won't do anything. The scheme is not the problem it's the lack of talent on the defensive line and the secondary. It doesn't matter whether you have a 4-3 or 3-4 defense if you don't have enough talent you will continue to struggle.

I agree with you. We shouldn't switch. I think people are lured by the fact there is a lot more players available who fit the 4-3.

So in reality they are just unhappy with our players.

 

[Robert_California]

If we want to switch for whatever reason though, now is a good time to do it. If we're going to have a major defensive overhaul, and our coaches want the 4-3, now's the time.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

If we want to switch for whatever reason though, now is a good time to do it. If we're going to have a major defensive overhaul, and our coaches want the 4-3, now's the time.

Seriously, what are we so concerned about? That, if the Cowboys switch, they'll be forced to rely on a bunch of JAGs?

:laugh2:

 

[cowboyfan4life2]

Couldn't agree more, we have one guy who can consistently get pressure on the qb, and a secondary who couldn't cover my grandmother. I'm not the biggest Rob Ryan fan, but considering what he has to work with, he didn't do a terrible job this season, outside of the last 5 minutes against the Giants.

 

[zack]

Simple math. If you need less players to switch to the 4-3 then why not. As it stands now, we have more holes to fill with the 3-4, just sayin.

 

[Doomsday101]

I think 3-4 gives you more options not less when trying to bring in talent. You can look to the college OLB or Smaller DE like Ware who fit perfect in the 3-4.

In the end the problem for Dallas is not 3-4 or 4-3 it is players and execution.

 

[visionary]

simple questions for the OP:

what makes you believe that "the scheme is not the problem"?

has rob ryan ever had a top 5 defense?

seeing how his brother's defense (who has had years to 'bring his players') was torched by our division rivals (that we have to play twice a year) i am not confident that it is just the players

i agree that we need to upgrade the talent but also keep an open mind if better coaches become available

 

[Cowboys&LakersFan]

simple questions for the OP:

what makes you believe that "the scheme is not the problem"?

has rob ryan ever had a top 5 defense?

seeing how his brother's defense (who has had years to 'bring his players') was torched by our division rivals (that we have to play twice a year) i am not confident that it is just the players

i agree that we need to upgrade the talent but also keep an open mind if better coaches become available

Rob Ryan has never had a top 5 defense, but he's never had elite talent. In Oakland all he really had was Nnamdi, in Cleveland didn't really have anybody, and in Dallas the only elite players he has are Ware and Lee.

 

[zack]

Here is the last several years with the 3-4, points allowed ranking:

03 - ran the 4-3 - finished 2nd
04 - 1st year with 3-4, finished 27th
05 - 12th
06 - 20th
07 - 13th
08 - 20th
09 - 2nd
10 - 31st
11 - 16th

Time for change.

 

[Chuck 54]

Biggest problems with the 3-4 are:

1. Hard to find 2 OLBs who can both get to the QB, both hold up against the run, both cover at least adequately...if both backers can't do a little of all, then the idea that the offense won't know which guy is coming goes out the window...you can't pass rush both all the time either...that's a5 man blitz, and less coverage.

2. Hard to find a quality NT who can hold up against double-teams.

3. Hard to find DE's who are big and strong enough to play inside the OTs and still have enough athletic ability to beat an OG or OT 1-1 and give you a little pass rush.

4. Then you also need 2 ILBs big and strong enough to take on blocks by OL and still drop into coverage.

I still prefer the 4-3...I like the rush presence of 4 D-linemen, and when you bring #5 from LB or DB, various locations, you have more surprise.

But I don't see the Cowboys switching anytime soon.

 

[PullMyFinger]

One of the biggest reasons I think we should switch is because the 4-3 was invented by Laundry. The 3-4 was Parcells baby and should have left when he did.

Hell, I'd take Zimmer back......that's right I said it.

 

[TheSport78]

I see alot of people suggesting we switch defensive schemes and I just don't get it. First of all our players are idiots switching schemes would be way to confusing for their small brains. Second switching schemes won't do anything. The scheme is not the problem it's the lack of talent on the defensive line and the secondary. It doesn't matter whether you have a 4-3 or 3-4 defense if you don't have enough talent you will continue to struggle.

I just think our current players are better suited for 4-3. You can't tell me that Ratliff wouldn't be a better DT in 4-3 defense right now. Ware and Spencer should never be in coverage, and in a 3-4, that's a part of their responsibility. Every time I see Ware in coverage, I think, "Why isn't he rushing the QB?" In a 4-3, with the exception of plays like zone blitzes, he'll be rushing every play and stopping the run. I think Bruce Carter is a better fit as an outside LB in 4-3.

 

[gmoney112]

Denver went back to the 4-3 this season and look at their success.

I think both the 4-3 and 3-4 have their strengths. Didn't our DL coach come from Carolina where they ran a 4-3?

I like the 4-3 because I think it allows you to have more speed in your front 7. But to each their own.

 

[Clove]

I see alot of people suggesting we switch defensive schemes and I just don't get it. First of all our players are idiots switching schemes would be way to confusing for their small brains. Second switching schemes won't do anything. The scheme is not the problem it's the lack of talent on the defensive line and the secondary. It doesn't matter whether you have a 4-3 or 3-4 defense if you don't have enough talent you will continue to struggle.

You're on a role young man. You're confusing idiotic with talentless. The guys aren't dumb, they're just not talented.

But, if you change to a 4-3, automatically you've turned your front 3 average pass rush to a more potent pass rush by moving guys around a little. Make Hatcher an end, Ware an end, Ratliff and pick any of those other big linemen to be the other DT.

Right there, Ratliff will become dominant. You can still try to draft a pass rusher on the other side, which are easier to get now that teams are switching to the 3-4, those pass rush big guys are now not as prevalent.

But at the end of the say, you have to have guys who can cover, and some type of quarterback of the secondary via strong safety or Free safety. I just don't like the 3-4 anymore.

 

[Doomsday101]

Denver went back to the 4-3 this season and look at their success.

I think both the 4-3 and 3-4 have their strengths. Didn't our DL coach come from Carolina where they ran a 4-3?

I like the 4-3 because I think it allows you to have more speed in your front 7. But to each their own.

I don't see an issue with either one. Both require the same thing in the end, execution. When Dallas was playing 4-3 and not doing well people got upset with that just as well.

 

[Cowboys&LakersFan]

Denver went back to the 4-3 this season and look at their success.

I think both the 4-3 and 3-4 have their strengths. Didn't our DL coach come from Carolina where they ran a 4-3?

I like the 4-3 because I think it allows you to have more speed in your front 7. But to each their own.

Denver has way more talent than we do.

You're on a role young man. You're confusing idiotic with talentless. The guys aren't dumb, they're just not talented.

But, if you change to a 4-3, automatically you've turned your front 3 average pass rush to a more potent pass rush by moving guys around a little. Make Hatcher an end, Ware an end, Ratliff and pick any of those other big linemen to be the other DT.

Right there, Ratliff will become dominant. You can still try to draft a pass rusher on the other side, which are easier to get now that teams are switching to the 3-4, those pass rush big guys are now not as prevalent.

But at the end of the say, you have to have guys who can cover, and some type of quarterback of the secondary via strong safety or Free safety. I just don't like the 3-4 anymore.

They're not talented, but they're also not smart. I've lost count at all the stupid penalties I've seen them commit. Offsides, defensive holding, pass interference, etc.

 

[Frosty]

simple questions for the OP:

what makes you believe that "the scheme is not the problem"?

has rob ryan ever had a top 5 defense?

seeing how his brother's defense (who has had years to 'bring his players') was torched by our division rivals (that we have to play twice a year) i am not confident that it is just the players

i agree that we need to upgrade the talent but also keep an open mind if better coaches become available

I like were you are going with this...JUST What has ROB RYAN ever accomplished with any Team....His last name has got him jobs while his schemes and player executions keep getting him fired....uuuhm. Cowboys need Jacksonville or Tampa to give Rob Ryan a HC job so Jerry can go get, Mike Nolan or Spags...the Boys need a long term solution at DC not a short term JAG for coach.

 

[bsheeern]

All this 3-4/4-3 talk is Off base. We run both alignments quite a bit.

The problem we've had with the front seven isn't the alignment, it's the production. We haven't had a solid pass rush From the DE position. particularly on 3rd downs and passing downs. We've had good run stoppers but none have pushed the pocket once we get pressure from Ware.

Now 3-4 DE who can play the run and also excel at rushing the QB are very hard to find. Particularly because it's a projected position coming out of college. Not a lot of 3-4 teams so it's harder to gauge how a player will fare making the transition.

More teams now run the 3-4 so the talent is also more spread out.

I also believe with Ratliff being smaller tends to make us lean towards a DE than is more suited against the run. IE spears and Coleman. A guy like hatcher becomes less of an option on early downs or probable running downs because he's not a big/bulky run stuffing DE and teams can attack him and Ratliff in the running game with size.


We run a different 3-4 than most teams so it's hard to compare and judge what we do based on other teams around the league. Most if your 3-4 DE's are run stoppers first anyway but even more so with us because we lack the size in the middle.

We now have faster ILB's that can hopefully create some pash rush like we had in 09. James had somewhere in the neighborhood if 6-8 sacks. We've lacked a pass rush from the ILB position and IMO With Carter and Lee we can be more athletic getting afer the QB up the middle which will only free up everyone but especially Ratliff and whoever is rushing from the DE position.