The skinny on Mike Shanahan and what to do about it

[OAM]

Shanny the GM never knew how to bring in the talent he needed, especially on defense. The guy was chasing and utilizing Cleveland's and our leftovers for his front 7 the past 4 or 5 years. His defense has been horrendous during that span. He's tried every scheme on that side of the ball and has gotten no results because he just didn't have the defensive talent upfront to have a successful defense. He finally went and got himself a real QB that he had to draft 3 years ago and develop. Since Elway, Shanny has had scrubs to average at the QB position, other than Cutler of course who he had to draft and came about his 3rd season. Other than Portis any of the other rb's he's had have done nothing anywhere else. Shanny the GM is a disaster.

Shanny the coach, handling the offense with average talent has been more than adequate, always. His problemslie on the defensive side of the ball. His biggest star on his roster the last 3 years was Champ Bailey, Cutler emerged this year. Other than Champ, Cutler and Brandon Marshall there is no one on that team that I would trade a 2nd rounder up for. The last 3 years Shanny has been 9-7, 7-9 and 8-8 with inferior talent, that is his own fault since he had the power to bring in players but still remains at least .500 during that time. He's had to compete with that talent in an AFC conference that hosts NE, Indy, Pitts, SD and BAL who are the usuals to represent 5/6 of the playoff spots in the AFC year after year. The bolded teams represent 6/8's of the last SB championships.

Since 1998, which would represent the last decade and 11 SB's, other than NYG TB and STL, it's been all AFC teams winning 8/11's of the SB's in that span. Here is the breakdown of the 8 teams with the amount of their respective SB's in that span beside them. NE (3), Indy (1), Pitts (1), BAL (1), DEN (2).

Below is Shanny's Track record the last 12 seasons that we haven't won a playoff game. Keep in mind Wade Phillips is 0-4 in the playoffs. During that span, Shanny has reached the playoffs 6/12 seasons, has won 2 SB's and is 8-4 in the playoffs.



2008 Denver Broncos 8 8 .500 0-0
2007 Denver Broncos 7 9 .438 0-0
2006 Denver Broncos 9 7 .563 0-0
2005 Denver Broncos 13 3 .813 1-1
2004 Denver Broncos 10 6 .625 0-1
2003 Denver Broncos 10 6 .625 0-1
2002 Denver Broncos 9 7 .563 0-0
2001 Denver Broncos 8-8 .500 0-0
2000 Denver Broncos 11-5 .688 0-1
1999 Denver Broncos 6-10 .375 0-0
1998 Denver Broncos 14-2 .875 3-0
1997 Denver Broncos 12-4 .750 4-0



I look at the only 3 NFC champs since 98, Tom Coughlin, Jon Gruden and Dick Vermeil I think very good coaches. When I add Belicheat, Tony Dungy, Bill Cowher and Brian Billick, who represent the other championship coaches in the last decade I think even better. Belicheat the best of the bunch and Billick the worst. Other than Little Bill and Dungy, Shanny has produced better results than the rest and is 2nd best only to Belicheat in my opinion. This of course is judging everyone's body of work since 98 and these other factoring challenges:


- The level of overall talent Shanny has not given himself to play with as a horrible GM

- The ridiculously more talented and dominating opposition that he has had to contend with being in the AFC throughout that span

- Elway retired after the 99 season and other than Cutler breaking through this year, Shanny has had Brian Griese and Jake Plummer as his most respected QB's.


So after looking at the track records and the other above variables I believe this:

Belichick, Mike Shanahan, Tony Dungy and Bill Cowher have been the best HC's in this league the past decade, in that respective order. I like Jeff Fischer also but the other 4 have better careers and they are just as recent careers.

Jerry, you want to remain GM and we have to go absolutely postal to change that. We know that. But be a real GM and go get the 2nd best possible coaching candidate whether under contract or not. 2010 will be too late. Go get him now the way we know you can. You know you'll both work well together and not many could with you. Don't let your friendship with Al Davis who is trying to sell off his team anyways get in the way of this obvious decision.

 

[RealCowboyfan]

Good points

 

[OAM]

Good points

Thanks! We could get Shanny for cheap too the next 3 seasons which is all the way till 2011, when we host the Superbowl.

 

[arglebargle]

Good discussion points! It may be moot til next year, if Shanahan sits out for a year though.

 

[OAM]

Good discussion points! It may be moot til next year, if Shanahan sits out for a year though.

If Jerry wanted him this year Shanny would coach this year. He just refuses to coach the bottom feeders that are available. Wade hasn't done much of a sales pitch to keep his current status. No obvious concrete plan to turn things around. The results aren't there, I'm just not understanding this.

 

[CATCH17]

If Jerry wanted him this year Shanny would coach this year. He just refuses to coach the bottom feeders that are available. Wade hasn't done much of a sales pitch to keep his current status. No obvious concrete plan to turn things around. The results aren't there, I'm just not understanding this.

I could understand keeping Wade if Shannahan wasn't available.

We need Wades defensive style. But this team needs a great coach / Leader more than anything.

I can't believe Jerry isn't all over this.

 

[OAM]

I could understand keeping Wade if Shannahan wasn't available.

We need Wades defensive style. But this team needs a great coach / Leader more than anything.

I can't believe Jerry isn't all over this.

Exactly! When we got whipped by Philly an already wanting $10 million a year overrated chin, dying to retire and on his last legs Holmgren were the best options available. That would of course be outside of Spagnuolo who would represent drastic change defensively and current overseer Wade. But Shanny came unexpectingly falling out of the heavens since Jerry's original post Philly proclamation and it makes somuch sense it's scary.

We can keep Wade, if not we have (3) 3-4 coordinators available that can continue the pressure and defense. Even more importantly, Shanny can will this team and get us back to effective balance on offense. You want to play the pass? Well Shanny can run all over you. You wanna load up on the run? Well Shanny will pass to every perimeter the field has to offer. No matter who is at QB or RB and no matter who is protecting and blocking for both, SHanny just knows how to make it happen on that side of the ball.

You're a sloppy jerk as a player or coach? Shanny will break your arse and you'll respect it because only Belichick has been better the last decade. Don't let him GM unless it's for lineman though, lol! Our most glaring draft weakness nonetheless. Shanny is so good for this team it's unreal. He's so good at running the ball but you still don't know if he's a running or passing offense. He's so damn good in that regard.

 

[JBS]

first and foremost that was a great post. It is evident you put a lot of research and effort into it. A couple of quick points:

-who is to say Shanahan will coach anywhere without GM powers? Now I am not saying he definitely wont but it is a hurdle.

-Shanahan coming cheap should not and does not matter - seeing as coaching contracts do not effect the cap. May hurt jerrys pockets - but thats not here nor there.

-If we did bring shanahan in who would run the defense? I think it is a long shot to expect wade to stick around as a Dcoord - so any alternatives?

All in all I do agree that Shanahan is an outstanding coach and I also believe he would be a good fit here. But there are some hurdles.

 

[wileedog]

-who is to say Shanahan will coach anywhere without GM powers? Now I am not saying he definitely wont but it is a hurdle.

Considering he was fired for his poor GM performance, he doesn't have a lot of leverage to demand that from any team, ours or any other possible opening.

Plus I think the NFL is trending back away from HC/GMs. It hasn't been overly successful anywhere.

-Shanahan coming cheap should not and does not matter - seeing as coaching contracts do not effect the cap. May hurt jerrys pockets - but thats not here nor there.

Opening a billion dollar palace, er stadium in this economy, I think even Jerry has to look at the bottom line. BUt as you said I don't think its a real issue either way. Shanahan is not in a position where he's looking for the highest bidder, he wants the best situation.

-If we did bring shanahan in who would run the defense? I think it is a long shot to expect wade to stick around as a Dcoord - so any alternatives?

Mangini would be interesting. Capers is out there. There are other 3-4 coaches available, I don't think its a roadblock.

 

[OAM]

first and foremost that was a great post. It is evident you put a lot of research and effort into it. A couple of quick points:

-who is to say Shanahan will coach anywhere without GM powers? Now I am not saying he definitely wont but it is a hurdle.

-Shanahan coming cheap should not and does not matter - seeing as coaching contracts do not effect the cap. May hurt jerrys pockets - but thats not here nor there.

-If we did bring shanahan in who would run the defense? I think it is a long shot to expect wade to stick around as a Dcoord - so any alternatives?

All in all I do agree that Shanahan is an outstanding coach and I also believe he would be a good fit here. But there are some hurdles.

Firstly, thanks for the positive response! Here are the answers to your questions

- The OP wants Shanny the coach, not the GM and Jerry won't give it up anyways as suggesting in the OP. Plus Shanny has no leverage in being a GM after stinking at it and sounds like he realizes that. Plus Jerry is the type of guy who will get you the player you want anyways and also add another superstar variable to the equation to boot.

- Many reports are out that Jerry doesn't want to choke on coaching dollars already spent and the ones that would have to be to make a coaching change. Bowlen is on the hook for 3 more years at $7 million each for Shanny. Anything Jerry pays Shanny, the excess of the $7 million goes to Bowlen. I know the cap isn't affected by coaching salaries but Jerry's bottomline is and he's the one worried about that.

- As the OP states Capers, Mangini and Crennel are available 34 coordinators if Wade doesn't get realistic. No one else would hire Wade as a HC and surely wouldn't pay him $3 million to be a DC. Garrett is more of the road block, not Wade. Garrett goes somewhere else Shanny will be here.

If you're Jerry does that smooth things out to get Shanny yet?

 

[OAM]

Considering he was fired for his poor GM performance, he doesn't have a lot of leverage to demand that from any team, ours or any other possible opening.

Plus I think the NFL is trending back away from HC/GMs. It hasn't been overly successful anywhere.




Opening a billion dollar palace, er stadium in this economy, I think even Jerry has to look at the bottom line. BUt as you said I don't think its a real issue either way. Shanahan is not in a position where he's looking for the highest bidder, he wants the best situation.



Mangini would be interesting. Capers is out there. There are other 3-4 coaches available, I don't think its a roadblock.

Thank you Sir!

 

[cowboyz]

Firstly, thanks for the positive response! Here are the answers to your questions

- The OP wants Shanny the coach, not the GM and Jerry won't give it up anyways as suggesting in the OP. Plus Shanny has no leverage in being a GM after stinking at it and sounds like he realizes that. Plus Jerry is the type of guy who will get you the player you want anyways and also add another superstar variable to the equation to boot.

- Many reports are out that Jerry doesn't want to choke on coaching dollars already spent and the ones that would have to be to make a coaching change. Bowlen is on the hook for 3 more years at $7 million each for Shanny. Anything Jerry pays Shanny, the excess of the $7 million goes to Bowlen. I know the cap isn't affected by coaching salaries but Jerry's bottomline is and he's the one worried about that.

- As the OP states Capers, Mangini and Crennel are available 34 coordinators if Wade doesn't get realistic. No one else would hire Wade as a HC and surely wouldn't pay him $3 million to be a DC. Garrett is more of the road block, not Wade. Garrett goes somewhere else Shanny will be here.

If you're Jerry does that smooth things out to get Shanny yet?

i don't see the GM thing being an issue. for Shanny it's not the title, it's the control. with Jerry it's the title.

it's not like Jerry is evaluating players and selecting them.

 

[Arch Stanton]

Firstly, thanks for the positive response! Here are the answers to your questions

- The OP wants Shanny the coach, not the GM and Jerry won't give it up anyways as suggesting in the OP. Plus Shanny has no leverage in being a GM after stinking at it and sounds like he realizes that. Plus Jerry is the type of guy who will get you the player you want anyways and also add another superstar variable to the equation to boot.

- Many reports are out that Jerry doesn't want to choke on coaching dollars already spent and the ones that would have to be to make a coaching change. Bowlen is on the hook for 3 more years at $7 million each for Shanny. Anything Jerry pays Shanny, the excess of the $7 million goes to Bowlen. I know the cap isn't affected by coaching salaries but Jerry's bottomline is and he's the one worried about that.

- As the OP states Capers, Mangini and Crennel are available 34 coordinators if Wade doesn't get realistic. No one else would hire Wade as a HC and surely wouldn't pay him $3 million to be a DC.

If you're Jerry does that smooth things out to get Shanny yet?

There are a couple of coaches already on this team that have coached with Capers. Grantham and Herring.

 

[OAM]

i don't see the GM thing being an issue. for Shanny it's not the title, it's the control. with Jerry it's the title.

it's not like Jerry is evaluating players and selecting them.

You're 110% right. I share the same theory and there was no better example of this sentiment than the Parcells/Jerry partnership. It's title for Jerry but he wants and accepts the coaches and scouting departments input as much as his desire for the player. I love Jerry's willingness to go get em, no one does it like him.

Every coach wants that in the owner and Jerry allows the coach to considerably control the selection of "the groceries to make the meal". The GM thing is not a problem for Shanny at all and Jerry gets to be GM still thats why I know they'llwork awesome together.

Now if Bowlen will just take Red Jerry and Bowlen will be doing both eachother a favor financially and wash some coaching salaries. Bowlen doesn't care about that though but Jerry care about Red and is using the $ as an excuse not to pull the trigger on coaching changes.

 

[OAM]

There are a couple of coaches already on this team that have coached with Capers. Grantham and Herring.

Yes Sir! Just makes too much sense doesn't it? The line coach and the LB coach. Secondary as we know is Campo and is a homer Capers would absolutely accept since coverage is coverage other than man and zone.

I like Mangini because he'd be here for a while since half the 34 coaching tree out there is pissed with him, plus he knows Belichick. Now I like Capers, he is more talented and decorated than Mangini but after 1 good season will get more bites regardless of the Texans experiment. It's a longevity thing I feel about Capers but if he's getting paid right and a respected HC like Shanny is here Capers probably would do the LeBeau thing.

If not for longevity, I like Capers better for talent and experience. He also knows Belichick well enough working with him this year. Believe me, Shanny would appreciate that . Capers being here keeps continuity for Jerry since Gratham and Herring would be here still. That also saves money. Once again, those are Jerry's excuses believe them or not, lol. I am starting to swing more to Capers than Mangini the more I talk about it with the right people. Love the insight my friend, thanks!

 

[CATCH17]

first and foremost that was a great post. It is evident you put a lot of research and effort into it. A couple of quick points:

-who is to say Shanahan will coach anywhere without GM powers? Now I am not saying he definitely wont but it is a hurdle.

-Shanahan coming cheap should not and does not matter - seeing as coaching contracts do not effect the cap. May hurt jerrys pockets - but thats not here nor there.

-If we did bring shanahan in who would run the defense? I think it is a long shot to expect wade to stick around as a Dcoord - so any alternatives?

All in all I do agree that Shanahan is an outstanding coach and I also believe he would be a good fit here. But there are some hurdles.

As "BAD" of a GM as people make Jerry out to be he sure has put together one heck of a talented roster.

I would love to see Barber, Felix, and Choice in a Shannahan offense.

TO, Roy, Witten, and Romo in that offense would make teams shudder.

I can't believe we aren't all over this.

 

[Arch Stanton]

Yes Sir! Just makes too much sense doesn't it? The line coach and the LB coach. Secondary as we know is Campo and is a homer Capers would absolutely accept since coverage is coverage other than man and zone.

I like Mangini because he'd be here for a while since half the 34 coaching tree out there is pissed with him, plus he knows Belichick. Now I like Capers, he is more talented and decorated than Mangini but after 1 good season will get more bites regardless of the Texans experiment. It's a longevity thing I feel about Capers but if he's getting paid right and a respected HC like Shanny is here Capers probably would do the LeBeau thing.

If not for longevity, I like Caper better for talent and experience. He also knows Belichick well enough working with him this year. Believe me, Shanny would appreciate that .

I think I remember Garrett was thinking of bringing Capers as DC when he interviewed for the Ravens HC gig. If Jerry were to can Wade and promote Jason Garett to HC then most of the coaches will be in place on the D. I'd be willing to bet that Capers would be in Dallas PDQ.

 

[cowboyz]

Yes Sir! Just makes too much sense doesn't it? The line coach and the LB coach. Secondary as we know is Campo and is a homer Capers would absolutely accept since coverage is coverage other than man and zone.

I like Mangini because he'd be here for a while since half the 34 coaching tree out there is pissed with him, plus he knows Belichick. Now I like Capers, he is more talented and decorated than Mangini but after 1 good season will get more bites regardless of the Texans experiment. It's a longevity thing I feel about Capers but if he's getting paid right and a respected HC like Shanny is here Capers probably would do the LeBeau thing.

If not for longevity, I like Capers better for talent and experience. He also knows Belichick well enough working with him this year. Believe me, Shanny would appreciate that . Capers being here keeps continuity for Jerry since Gratham and Herring would be here still. That also saves money. Once again, those are Jerry's excuses believe them or not, lol. I am starting to swing more to Capers than Mangini the more I talk about it with the right people. Love the insight my friend, thanks!

yeah i'm a big fan of failed HCs as DC/OCs.

it's the peter principle. trying to find someone like dick lebeau is perfect. wade is the same way. whoever gets him next for DC will have another lebeau. because no way he gets another HC position.

would rather have capers than mangini. capers has seen it all and is not getting another chance. mangini will, he's still young.

 

[OAM]

I think I remember Garrett was thinking of bringing Capers as DC when he interviewed for the Ravens HC gig. If Jerry were to can Wade and promote Jason Garett to HC then most of the coaches will be in place on the D. I'd be willing to bet that Capers would be in Dallas PDQ.

I remember that as well but I don't think Garrett is ready to be a HC and certainly not ready to lead this team to the SB. In regards to offensive minds Shanny whips Garrett and pretty much all the other practicing OC's in this league. Even his son is looking good down in Houston.

In regards to being a head coach I think only Belichick trumps Shanny right now. That's coaches in retirement that could come out and current coaches. Wade is very easily replace on the defense with the 3 DC's we have mentioned and Garret is so easily upgraded by getting Shanny. HC which is the most important thing philosphy wise is obviously so upgraded as well.

If you give Shanny a defense what do you do with him? We got Garrett every possible weapon and he can't get them clicking for 16 games.

 

[CF74]

Pipe dream:

Holmgren for GM

Shanahan HC

Billick DC

Championship!!!