The skinny on Mike Shanahan and what to do about it

Arch Stanton

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OAM;2553162 said:
I remember that as well but I don't think Garrett is ready to be a HC and certainly not ready to lead this team to the SB. In regards to offensive minds Shanny whips Garrett and pretty much all the other practicing OC's in this league. Even his son is looking good down in Houston.

In regards to being a head coach I think only Belichick trumps Shanny right now. That's coaches in retirement that could come out and current coaches. Wade is very easily replace on the defense with the 3 DC's we have mentioned and Garret is so easily upgraded by getting Shanny. HC which is the most important thing philosphy wise is obviously so upgraded as well.

If you give Shanny a defense what do you do with him? We got Garrett every possible weapon and he can't get them clicking for 16 games.

I'm ambivalent about Shanahan as HC.

I'm not sure that Jerry has given up on Jason Garrett. It would not surprise me if Garrett is offered the HC job in Denver that Jerry would can Wade and install him as HC.
 

OAM

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cowboyz;2553154 said:
yeah i'm a big fan of failed HCs as DC/OCs.

it's the peter principle. trying to find someone like dick lebeau is perfect. wade is the same way. whoever gets him next for DC will have another lebeau. because no way he gets another HC position.

would rather have capers than mangini. capers has seen it all and is not getting another chance. mangini will, he's still young.

Shanny as HC and Capers as DC. Boy o boy I could go to war with those 2 leading our talented misfits. Arch Stanton also made an awesome point about Gratham and Herring working with Capers in the past. We all know we wanted to bring Capers in. Sounds like defensive continuity to me. Yah who cares about Mangini and Crennell as long as Wade or Capers is managing the defense and Shanny the HC.

In regards to offense, we need to get back to balance and utilizing the talent we have at RB. Shanny does it again. To defensively and offensively we'll have execution and then philosophically Shanny can make sure everything clicks throughout the week and on game day.

How is Jerry not all over Shanny?
 

CATCH17

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Watch Bobby Carpenter get a chance to play at Miami and become a solid player.

Fasano is a very good Tight End when given the chance.

I'd rather have Martellus but Fasano looks like a poor mans Witten out there.

He was never as bad as a lot of our fans would have you believe either.
 

CF74

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Arch Stanton;2553183 said:
Billick as DC. :confused:

Didn't he coach the Ravens when their defense won a Super Bowl? Oh wait they were using a 4-3 back then, whoops..
 

OAM

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CowboyFan74;2553179 said:
Pipe dream:

Holmgren for GM

Shanahan HC

Billick DC

Championship!!!

Holmgren is not a good GM. Good coach though but Shanny was and is better over his body of work.

Billick is an offensive guy that won't take an OC position and would be unnecessary if Shanny come over.

Shanny is a masterful coach but not anywhere in that level regarding the GM position.

Jerry as GM

Shanny as HC

Wade or Capers as DC

I'm convinced we're gonna get to another ring. Jerry doesn't stink as a GM but he needs a HC he can work with like he did with Parcells but can still coach and adjust.
 

cowboyz

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CATCH17;2553187 said:
Watch Bobby Carpenter get a chance to play at Miami and become a solid player.

Fasano is a very good Tight End when given the chance.

I'd rather have Martellus but Fasano looks like a poor mans Witten out there.

He was never as bad as a lot of our fans would have you believe either.
i've been watching fasano today, eh he's tony curtis.

every run play to his side is blown up.

he's a decent receiving TE but dallas needed a blocking TE.
 

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Arch Stanton;2553180 said:
I'm ambivalent about Shanahan as HC.

I'm not sure that Jerry has given up on Jason Garrett. It would not surprise me if Garrett is offered the HC job in Denver that Jerry would can Wade and install him as HC.

I wouldn't pass Jerry by doing something like that because he gets turned on by someone else wanting Garrett. But it would be the wrong move. Neither Wade or Garrett can lead this team as the primary coaching figure in that locker room. They need an overseeing presence like Shanny.

Garrett's philosophy is out to lunch anyways. It's good that Garrett is willing to be aggressive at times but he either goes real conventional or absolutely all out aggressive. That's why he's become predictable because there is no balance or mystery. Plus the guy never has his side of the ball show up in the big games and gets dictated to by the better DC's in the league.

Shanny, Shanny Shanny, lol!
 

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CowboyFan74;2553188 said:
Didn't he coach the Ravens when their defense won a Super Bowl? Oh wait they were using a 4-3 back then, whoops..

They were using a 34 defense back then as Marvin Lewis was their DC that year. Brian Billick was the HC and he was handling the offensive side of the ball. Brian Billick was the Vikings OC prior to that when Denny Green had Minny putting monster points up with Moss and Culpepper.
 

CF74

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OAM;2553190 said:
Holmgren is not a good GM.

How do you know? He's never been one has he? I bet he wouldn't undermine the coaches all the time...
 

Arch Stanton

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CowboyFan74;2553244 said:
How do you know? He's never been one has he? I bet he wouldn't undermine the coaches all the time...


He was GM and HC in Seattle.
 

CF74

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OAM;2553242 said:
They were using a 34 defense back then as Marvin Lewis was their DC that year. Brian Billick was the HC and he was handling the offensive side of the ball. Brian Billick was the Vikings OC prior to that when Denny Green had Minny putting monster points up with Moss and Culpepper.


Are you sure? I remember Ray Ray crying about the switch after they won the super bowl. Something about eating guards...
 

OAM

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CowboyFan74;2553244 said:
How do you know? He's never been one has he? I bet he wouldn't undermine the coaches all the time...

He's been acting as Seattle's GM along with HC pretty much since he got there. His results were very minimal at best regarding GM responsibilities. If he focuses on GM alone he may get better results but I don't get an overwhelming feeling of success judging by his previous body of work.
 

CF74

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OAM;2553270 said:
He's been acting as Seattle's GM along with HC pretty much since he got there. His results were very minimal at best regarding GM responsibilities. If he focuses on GM alone he may get better results but I don't get an overwhelming feeling of success judging by his previous body of work.

If he can focus on one thing it would be good, just get Jerry to stop the bleeding..
 

NorthDalal

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Shanahan cold water.

1.)Suppose this turns out to be Wade's record over 4 years here.

8 8 .500 0-0
7 9 .438 0-0
9 7 .563 0-0
13 3 .813 1-1

Would he even see year 4? This is Shanahan's record over the last 4.

2.) For 20 years this team has not exceeded 34 sacks in a season. 2007-Bring in a perennial NFL sack leading San Diego DC Wade Phillips-- Dallas sets team records and leads the league in sacks (59!) just like SD did - not a coincidence IMO. Wait til we get more confidence and experience (and another draft) from young back 8 defenders and lots of INTs are coming.Can't blow this part up--It's the key to stopping modern offenses.

3.) It is foolish to speculate an NFL HC would step down to DC on the same team--never happens, isn't gonna happen here. Goodby Campo, Phillips and everyone else.

4.)We have great RBs coming back next yr. but get ready for Bruce Coslet style zone blocking OLs because that's what Shanahan is the leading proponent of.That means light agile lineman, pulling guards, That means blow up the whole line.Only Andre Gurode (ran similar OF at Colorado) fits and he can't get the snap right, impossible to implement in 2 seasons let alone one TC.

5.)Shanahan will be less than pleased having others dominate draft selection,we're coming off a very good draft performance in 2008 thank you.Hhe'll have to adjust, if he went to Detroit,NYJ, STL he would not. He'll always resent that.

We'de do alot better with Eric Mangini or a fresh face assistant who would leave defensive pieces in place, and utilize the big offensive line blocking scheme while featuring the runners. We'd also be a stronger December road team.
 

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CATCH17;2553187 said:
Watch Bobby Carpenter get a chance to play at Miami and become a solid player


Maybe so but he still needs to go from here. Change can help a player. Here he is an underachiever that can't even hang with the status quo. He needs a different vibe.

Fasano wasn't a bad TE at all. Tony Curtis is a liability. People don't like his blocking well him touching the ball is even worse. Always puts the ball on the floor. Could swear the bookies have him on the payroll.
 

Doomsday

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CATCH17;2553187 said:
Watch Bobby Carpenter get a chance to play at Miami and become a solid player.

Fasano is a very good Tight End when given the chance.

I'd rather have Martellus but Fasano looks like a poor mans Witten out there.

He was never as bad as a lot of our fans would have you believe either.

Fasano is a solid player, but untimely drops will always land you in the wrong side of fans support.

The thing that bugs me is it seemed like they wanted a more athletic TE that could moved around and spread out, they got one and they used him as an H-Back and hardly threw him the ball.

Our offense just seems to lack an identity, Garrett and Romo have to do a better job of dictating to defenses by spreading the ball around the field.
 

Doomsday

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NorthDalal;2553286 said:
Shanahan cold water.

1.)Suppose this turns out to be Wade's record over 4 years here.

8 8 .500 0-0
7 9 .438 0-0
9 7 .563 0-0
13 3 .813 1-1

Shanny has had 2 losing seasons in the last 10 years in Denver. That is after having to replace guys like T. Davis, J. Elway, Atwater, Sharpe etc. The Broncos biggest problem has been their drafts since 2001. They only have 2 players on their roster drafted between 2001 and 2007. Pretty Sad!

At least you know Shanahan coached teams will be prepared to play and have a solid game plan. Not really something you can say about Wade. Not to mention Denver's current talent compared to Dallas'. Wade's team have underachieved.
 

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NorthDalal;2553286 said:
Shanahan cold water.

1.)Suppose this turns out to be Wade's record over 4 years here.

8 8 .500 0-0
7 9 .438 0-0
9 7 .563 0-0
13 3 .813 1-1

Would he even see year 4? This is Shanahan's record over the last 4.

2.) For 20 years this team has not exceeded 34 sacks in a season. 2007-Bring in a perennial NFL sack leading San Diego DC Wade Phillips-- Dallas sets team records and leads the league in sacks (59!) just like SD did - not a coincidence IMO. Wait til we get more confidence and experience (and another draft) from young back 8 defenders and lots of INTs are coming.Can't blow this part up--It's the key to stopping modern offenses.

3.) It is foolish to speculate an NFL HC would step down to DC on the same team--never happens, isn't gonna happen here. Goodby Campo, Phillips and everyone else.

4.)We have great RBs coming back next yr. but get ready for Bruce Coslet style zone blocking OLs because that's what Shanahan is the leading proponent of.That means light agile lineman, pulling guards, That means blow up the whole line.Only Andre Gurode (ran similar OF at Colorado) fits and he can't get the snap right, impossible to implement in 2 seasons let alone one TC.

5.)Shanahan will be less than pleased having others dominate draft selection,we're coming off a very good draft performance in 2008 thank you.Hhe'll have to adjust, if he went to Detroit,NYJ, STL he would not. He'll always resent that.

We'de do alot better with Eric Mangini or a fresh face assistant who would leave defensive pieces in place, and utilize the big offensive line blocking scheme while featuring the runners. We'd also be a stronger December road team.

Easy to take someones format and use the opposite approach but here are your answers to your statements and questions in all the respective orders:

(1) - If Wade had the talent he does here and got that record, no he shouldn't be here playing in this conference. you can not honestly compare Shanny's talent in Denver to ours here in that span. Lets not even get into level of competition and who he's had as a QB. How many probowlers did Wade get to coach last year? Even this year we had a team with top 5 amount of probowlers. Other than Cutler, Marshall and Champ who would you give Denver more than a 2nd rounder for? Through Clady in too if you want. Us? Lets see, Tony Romo, T.O, Jason Witten, Roy Williams 11 (don't even dispute this), Marion Barber, Felix Jones, Andre Gurode, Leonard Davis, Demarcus Ware, Jay Ratliff, Terrence Newman. There are a lot of other guys we could argue on Dal but I won't bother. Personnell wise Shanny stunk. He coached up inferior talent to better than a .500 rcord the last 4 years nontheless.

(2)- No doubt Wade has gotten this team to create pressure and that's why I want him to remain as the DC, indicated in the OP. Those #'s and stats are not concidences but they are not more important than being 0-4 in the playoffs in your career as opposed to 8-4 just the last decade, nevermind career. It also doesn't compare to having 0 Superbowl championships to 2. I won't get into Shanny's offensive stats because I'm looking to win a SB and not pad stats. Could pad stats with Shanny if I wanted to though and he's never had this level of talent to work with.

(3) - Not relying on Wade to step down and don't believe it's what is going to happen but it is an option explored by many, plausible to regardless of what you think. Campo was a HC here and is now the DB coach. I do know that Capers is out there though and he has worked with Gratham (our D-line coach) and Herring (our LB coach). Campo is a homer and no one will get himout of here nor should they. The guy is a steal as a DB coach and regardless is you're a 34, 43 or 46 base defense man and zone is the single largest important method revolving the DB part of all those schemes. So Campo is interchangeable as a DB coach with pretty much and DC's scheme. We don't have to blow the defense up if Wade doesn't want to realize he's not a HC anywhere else and certainly won't get $3-3.5 million to be a DC anywhere else. Be careful using the word foolish, you're not very detailed oriented on your own.

(4) - You mean that Bill Parcells didn't ever institute zone blocking when he was here? Flo, Kosier, Gurode and Colombo didn't play under Big Bill? They're not 4/5's of our current starting line? Montrae Holland who played for Shanny isn't our instant backup at guard and is as big and sloppy as they come? Plays adequate in both types of blocking schemes. You mean to tell me that professional offensive lineman are only to play 1 system out of the few available? Even if the prior mentioned didn't occur, which they did, It means squat. You're Mike Shanahan and you have only coached under a zone blocking scheme throughout your career? You come from the Bill Walsh coaching tree and he only used zone blocking schemes throughout his coaching career? The o-lines prior, current or future blocking scheme is the single biggest reason why you hire a head coach?

(5) - Shanny wouldbe lessed than pleased that others will dominate draft decisions? Who's to say he feels he needs todominate that aspect of the team? Since when does Jerry not afford the HC of this team the opportunity to get a player he wants. Our OC currently gets to pick players from the draft (Felix Jones and Martellus Bennett), keep players on the roster (Brad Johnson) and request players during the regular season before the trade deadline (Roy Williams, who Jerry very much waned as well). Dominate the draft? Jerry looks to the scouting department, his coaching staff and his discretion to pick players in the draft. That sounds like a decide by committee approach to me and not 1 single entity dominating each draft decision. Let me inform you of something. When it comes to approving signing a players and fronting the money to allow a player on an NFL team, whether you are a GM or a cach or a CEO/President on any team. The owner has to approve and ultimately say "yes" to it.

Since I took the timeto answer your remarks and questions please answer my only to you.

Are you saying keep Wade Phillips as HC because he is more qualified than Mike Shanahan to take us to a SB? This team or any other?
 
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